ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 55

[MassGuy]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611491913785577472

 

[EJB123456]

Totally agree "walked past" her could have been from 3rd floor stairs or X's room, I lean towards X's room because the audio heard at 4:17. Maybe we'll find out someday.

Agreed, because if it was the stairs scenario, then he *really* would have had to have been in a trance to not see her! (which in my opinion he did not)

 

[Copper107]

I wondered if it was his father's also. I might have misread the affidavit but I read ito be that the blood residue on the sheath was his father's and they tied the alleged murderer through the geneology. But I admit I read the affidavit pretty quickly.

There was no blood residue (that we know of so far anyway) found on the sheath snap. It was single source DNA, meaning it wasn't mixed with anyone else's DNA. The investigators ran this DNA through the CODIS database but did not find a match. After identifying BK as a possible suspect, following him to his parents' residence and securing garbage deposited in a neighbor's bin, by suspect BK; investigators were able to get DNA from something there that put the person leaving it to 99.99999% the biological father of suspect leaving DNA on the sheath snap. Hope this clears up your query.

 

[Gemmie]

Remember the purpose of the affidavit. How are the actions taken by the roommate relevant to the judge deciding if BK should be arrested?

Her noting his busy eyebrows.

 

[CityKid]

Great hypothesis! WELCOME. We need you here.

And I'll wager that a main defense gambit will be to try and show other stranger DNA in the intimate zone of the victims. Good catch.

I'm just surprised they didn't take the mattresses earlier, to be honest.

 

[SandySouth]

Actual texts (words) are not kept by the cell phone provider - only the numbers and time stamps. I don’t believe photos are kept, but police forensics can uncover that kind of stuff.

In relation to my daughter’s death, I was told by AT&T that they do have messages that are sent as texts and retain for about 18 months. They can release to LE with a warrant. To get iMessages sent from one iPhone to another, LE would have to contact Apple and it would likely be preserved only if that person had iCloud backup if the phone itself could not be retrieved or unlocked.

 

[Gemmie]

I think those surgical gloves, etc. from his car cleaning is what he put in his neighbor’s trash at 4:00 am. moo

Wouldn't that be lovely?

 

[Marie A]

All IMHO

I’m still trying to process everything that the affidavit contained. It’s a lot to absorb.

I’m still inclined to believe that BK may have checked the locked bedroom doors on the 2nd floor (maybe first floor too) before going to the third floor.

I’m also inclined to believe that BK checked KG’s bedroom door and it was locked before proceeding to MM bedroom and
killing the two girls

MY BIG QUESTION- how did he get into MM room?
Was door open & unlocked? (assumed) or did he get access to the house earlier and jam or break the lock (unlikely) but curious because X had a recent lock repair by her dad

I think he was sloppy and left the knife sheath behind accidentally - unless there is no tracing how he acquired the knife and he was trying to purposely throw the investigation off with the USMC logo - but I don’t think he was that smart

Affidavit doesn’t state that DM saw a knife.
I don’t think she did.

I don’t think BK walked into the house toting his knife in his hand.
I also don’t think he walked out of the house toting his knife.
I think he must have had a backpack or bag of some sort with him. He may have thought he put the sheath into his backpack or bag only to have it slip out. Or he is just that dumb and sloppy after all.

I’m also wanting to believe that BK didn’t see DM at all when leaving the house - although he could have been exhausted from unexpected struggle with E & X and he did see her - he saw how tall she was and didn’t want to deal with her at that point because he was already cut on the wrist and was trying to not be sloppy.
His adrenaline was probably through the roof by then.
At that point BOTH previous bedrooms contained two people so I don’t think he had it in him to kill another two - he had no idea if DM might have had someone else in her room.
And she is decidedly tall, right?

Others may have speculated correctly that BK may have thought the police were already called because of all the noises associated with his spree.

I‘m not sure we will ever know if DM thought she was seen or not- or if she was seen.
I would really like to know.

I just know that she is decidedly traumatized & she must be replaying the whole horrific night in her head over and over again trying to get as much clarity as possible. What a nightmare.

I do hope that the detectives are able to re-interview her sometime next month. I think there may be clarity that has come over time regarding different thIngs she saw and heard.
Not that any of it makes much difference in the big picture.

She will almost certainly be called as a witness if and when this case goes to trial.

I think the affidavit was somewhat unfair to DM because she may have not really felt any fear at all until the next morning when everything came to light.

She may have simply felt a momentary shock seeing BK walk toward her direction then out the door but thought in retrospect he was a friend or prankster so she shrugged it off.

I know she feels horrible after putting it all together and realizing she could have been next.
I think her real shock and fear only came in retrospect- so I’m not sure that her “frozen shock” was not just a momentary thought and when BK walked out she simply dismissed it all as benign and went to sleep.

I can’t help but think that the affidavit could have been worded more tenderly toward BK instead of making the whole world think she was remiss for not calling 911 eight hours before the call was placed.

 

[SRWCF]

Agreed, because if it was the stairs scenario, then he *really* would have had to have been in a trance to not see her! (which in my opinion he did not)

I don't think he saw her, either. But in his wicked mind, he could have really been having an adrenaline rush, thinking he had just basically played God and ended the lives of four people, saw one more person and decided to let her live, reveling in THAT power.

 

[Dotta]

That would make me very suspicious if I had a drone continually flying over my home. And with as cautious as BK was (wearing gloves, washing every inch of his car, and putting trash into his neighbors garbage can around 4am, etc.).. you'd THINK he'd have been extremally paranoid about something as odd as that and you know he's been looking over his shoulder since 11/13.

Yes.
And not to mention a plane circling above the house for 2 hours - I think it was reported somewhere.

 

[wary]

Remember the purpose of the affidavit. How are the actions taken by the roommate relevant to the judge deciding if BK should be arrested?

Sorry, I meant the actions she took after he walked out of her line of sight. Those were the actions that the previous poster thought should have been included in the PCA—and I don’t know why.

 

[retrometro]

I think people i've seen jumping on DM (mostly on TT... i should delete that app lol) forget she likely described everything in far more detail to the police (i.e - how she was feeling, what she thought happened, whether she went to sleep or not etc) and they're just filling in the gaps in super dramatic ways

Totally agreed. I feel bad for DM. I believe that her actions were based on reasons that made sense to her at the moment and that she feels an incredible amount of survivor's guilt. We may not ever know the full story of what her thought process was unless she testifies about it at trial, but seems clear to me that LE found her credible, because (1) they concealed her eyewitness account from the public and (2) publicly declared within a week of the murders that she was not a suspect.

 

[Crosscntrymom]

Good point, 4AM usually resonates with LE and antiterror police, this is usually the time when they preffer to execute high risk arrests simply because vast majority of people are fast asleep then.

Except women in their late 50s

 

[Copper107]

Lots of interesting thoughts there - yes, hydrogen peroxide would be better than bleach (although neither is certain to completely eliminate DNA, at least hydrogen peroxide wouldn't make the cleaning process as obvious (especially if diluted).

Interesting point about him planning not to stick around. I think he's nervous around blood and not just because of DNA.

Task/goal-oriented is a good way of describing his motives so far. Wanted to compete (with other students, his professors - and with serial killers/criminals).

I too would love to know what he actually studied. DeSales doesn't have a strong program in genetics, IMO, nor even a basic course in forensic biology/anthropology techniques (that I can find).

I bet he read tons of non-academic true crime (like memoirs of serial killers). IMO. Would love to know how much time he spent annotating his textbooks and cross-referencing the current state of forensics as described in the current literature. Probably had intrusive thoughts about performing a crime, a lot.

Exactly, and any subsequent findings of all the mentioned reading materials could simply be explained as "research for his papers or future book.

 

[SRWCF]

I'm just surprised they didn't take the mattresses earlier, to be honest.

They were likely just trying to protect the integrity of the crime scene by keeping everything of importance "as is."

 

[Gemmie]

JMO

It’s possible he only wanted to kill enough people to get to serial killer status.

Well, he certainly killed enough to get to A-hole status.

 

[Gypsy Road]

In relation to my daughter’s death, I was told by AT&T that they do have messages that are sent as texts and retain for about 18 months. They can release to LE with a warrant. To get iMessages sent from one iPhone to another, LE would have to contact Apple and it would likely be preserved only if that person had iCloud backup if the phone itself could not be retrieved or unlocked.

During my recent court case, I was told by the State that actual text messages can not be retrieved - even with a subpoena to Apple, and then I verified it with my provider that AT&T does not retain actual text messages on ther servers and there is no way to retrieve them unless they are retrieved off the actual phone or phone texts were sent to .

 

[Bluebythec]

In this case, the short answer is Corporal Bret Payne of the Moscow PD drafted/signed the subject AA.

Generally, the district attorney, representing the people of the state, makes the decision whether or not to bring charges and/or prosecute a defendant in one of two ways -- a grand jury indictment or by Information and Complaint by the investigating police department.

The prosecutor comes about the police department's criminal investigation information from the arrest warrant affidavit/probable cause affidavit (i.e., AA or PCA) attached or an exhibit to the police department's application for an arrest warrant presented to the Judge for signature, followed by the execution of the warrant by police.

Here, we know that several agencies including the Idaho State Police, Coroner, FBI, WA and PA authorities, and the Latah District Attorney worked together with the Moscow Police Department to investigate the murders, and the contributions by these partners were ultimately included in the 19-page affidavit by CPL Payne dated December 29, 2022. MOO Ah..the long answer.

(For the latter example of a DA filing homicide charges without a police AA, more recently, those following PA's missing/murdered Elizabeth Capaldi might recall the weeks we spent wondering what in the world Bucks County Sheriff/Police were doing to investigate the missing wife/mother when suddenly, on December 15, Bucks County District Attorney Matt Weintraub announced the husband (Steve) was arrested, and his office filing homicide charges after he was indicted by the grand jury (secret) for murder).

Thank you! I was thinking how tight and coherent this was compared to the one in the Morphew case.

 

[Atlmom]

Some said Mr. Kohberger spent time studying the exact kind of techniques that the police used in recent weeks to identify him, and had a deep interest in criminal psychology and crime scenes.

Benjamin T. Roberts, a fellow graduate student at Washington State, said Mr. Kohberger had been interested in areas like psychology and Rational Choice Theory, which suggests that offenders may often try to assess the potential costs and benefits of committing a crime.

“He took the field of study very seriously,” Mr. Roberts said.

A Knife Sheath, Phone Pings and Trash: The Hunt for a Killer in Idaho

On the night four college students were killed, a roommate saw a man clad in black walk through the home. It took a cross-country investigation to find a suspect.

www.nytimes.com

Anything lighting up for you from that?
I have a feeling he did it as an academic exercise but I don't know what he was trying to prove that is new, from the few scraps of info we have?

BK undergraduate degree was in Psychology, then pursued criminal justice. It makes sense that he’d be interested in criminal psychology.

 

[agilbe]

I’ve been through the affidavit very carefully about ten times and I have loads of notes but I have one question I thought I’d ask others.

I majored in forensic biology but am no longer in the field. The specialty I chose (blood spatter analysis) did not afford me the chemical side of forensics so I admittedly ask this question with ignorance.

Before my question, a few notes/mini-questions:

1. Would there be any reason NOT to use luminol on a scene like this? I went through training more than 20 years ago but I cannot fathom a scenario where luminol wouldn’t be used throughout the entire house to detect any spatter, patterns or prints.

2. It doesn’t state in the affidavit that luminol was initially used and I know amido black is sometimes the go-to now so my first question may be irrelevant. I also know amido black is a protein stain but it’s most often used to detect blood. What is the likelihood that the crime scene investigators would have found something other than blood using amido black?

3. The affidavit states that a latent shoe print was found on a second visit to the crime scene and that it was found using amido black. We know it was missed the first time around which happens, especially with large crime scenes. Because this information is in the affidavit, I’m inclined to think that the protein found was blood.

And for my question:

If there was a bloody shoe print that was not visible to the naked eye of trained professionals, could that suggest the print was cleaned up?

I ask this because the timeline is very small for all of what happened to occur and if it’s possible this print was cleaned up, it’s making that window even smaller.

Apologies for the long post and thanks in advance for any thoughts.

I took a nap and oh my am I behind but maybe this helps.
"Amido black is a protein-staining reagent that is commonly used for the enhancement and visualization of suspected bloodstain-patterned evidence. Its preferred use over luminol is primarily due to its sensitivity and ease of use for photographic documentation."
Amido Black - an overview | ScienceDirect Topics.
I'm guessing there would have been a lot to photograph?