ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 57

[RANCH]

I don't see a loop in which a belt would be passed through.

 

[gizmobtj]

I think there is a problem with the timeline, car observed at 1604 hrs, trying to park or do 3 point turn, then bailing and driving down to the intersection and making a 3 point turn then disappearing. Then car fleeing at high rate of speed at 1620 hrs, that's 16 minutes and doesn't count ingress or egress.

Are you thinking it's not realistic to pull off in 16 minutes?

 

[Elley Mae]

dbm

Looking at maps bathroom on south side, as he approached the room he sees her on the floor.

Think the blood on outside wall was from X.

Jmo

 

[RANCH]

 

[CityKid]

Question about TikTok: Per the statement from Payne (BBM), "A review of records obtained from a forensic download of Kernodle's phone showed this could also have been Kernodle as her cellular phone indicated she was likely awake and using the TikTok app at approximately 4:12 a.m." I don't use that app but I assume it works like many others, whereby you can choose to let the app show you as online or offline. Does anyone think Payne's statement was based on her showing as online, or did she perhaps post something timestamped 4:12 a.m.? I'm sort of getting my hopes up that her phone was recording when the murderer was in her home.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

Read the PCA - the only document that directly addresses your question and is now part of the court record. Here's a link:

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/122922%20Affidavit%20-%20Exhibit%20A%20-%20Statement%20of%20Brett%20Payne.pdf

The 3-4 am early statement by Coroner is now superceded by facts as the case as presented to Court.

IMO.

Everyone posting should read the PCA. It catches all of us up on what law enforcement can tell us at this point.

 

[ray9898]

Something I’ve been wondering about— with all the effort (and motion) it would take to kill two people with a knife, two people in a twin bed—and then for the knife sheath to be found lying next to one of the bodies on the bed—that’s just not much space for all this to have happened on. I find it surprising both girls were found in the bed (as opposed to at least one on the floor), and that the sheath wasn’t on the floor. They must have died or been totally incapacitated very, very quickly and didn’t get a chance to move around very much during the attack.

It must have been an incredibly furious attack. It’s sickening to think about. I hope he gets what’s coming to him in short order.

It was not reported to be a twin bed.

 

[skyedaze]

This all makes sense regarding the initial desire to rape as opposed to murder, although i do think murder was also a part of his agenda if necessary..
The large trusty knife on his person however, does not let him down and serves as an impressive substitute for whatever fails him.. speculation, imo.

PR the social media person who I think is BK actually put forth a question to the group as to whether they thought the killer had sexual disfunction issues.

 

[bunkhead]

I haven't been commenting much, but I've been reading along. So thanks everyone for all the links and great information.

I've read through the PCA several times and have formed a bit of a different idea of what happened, including motive. Many people have commented how odd it is that a seemingly regular guy would commit a mass murder like this as his first crime. I agree. Not because I think he is a serial killer of some kind, but because it's possible his intent was not murder at all.

I'm coming to believe the intent was forcible rape and the intended target was M. I believe he knew where M's room was from prior surveillance. I believe he removed the knife from the sheath, which was looped on his belt and entered through the slider in the kitchen and went directly to M's room, finding her asleep. I believe he unbuckled his belt in preparation for a sexual attack at which time three things happened - (1) M awoke and fought back, (2) the sheath slipped off his undone belt, and (3) K heard the commotion and entered the room. At that point, he killed both of them.

I think his intent was to quickly exit the house the way he came, out the kitchen slider. Coming down the stairs he heard X moving around and saying "someone is here". Now he has a problem. Does he leave or does he dispatch a witness who may call 911 in the next few minutes? I believe he decided to kill X, not knowing E was there. I think he saw X as he rounded the corner and attacked her near the doorway or just inside the doorway of her room. Then he saw E and turned his attention to him as the bigger threat. I think X was still alive, injured, and crying. When he finishes with E he turns back to X telling her he will help her, but he finishes killing her instead.

Then he walks back down the hall, passing DM's room, and exits the way he came in through the kitchen slider. He showed no interest in DM's room or the two bedrooms on the first floor. I believe his focus was entirely on M's room on the third floor, he chose the most efficient route to get there, and did not expect K to be on the third floor at all. I think he thought he could rape (not kill) M on the third floor and then slip away.

I think that's why this crime seems so sloppy. He planned to commit a rape, in a college town, which is a fairly common occurrence and does not attract national attention and 50 FBI agents. He wasn't planning a mass murder; he was planning a rape and at most a local investigation by a local detective or two.

This is all my own opinion and my general sense of the case at this time.

This seems super far-fetched, he had many opportunities to rape someone (even MM) without doing it in a home of several people on a busy street. If he wantr

I haven't been commenting much, but I've been reading along. So thanks everyone for all the links and great information.

I've read through the PCA several times and have formed a bit of a different idea of what happened, including motive. Many people have commented how odd it is that a seemingly regular guy would commit a mass murder like this as his first crime. I agree. Not because I think he is a serial killer of some kind, but because it's possible his intent was not murder at all.

I'm coming to believe the intent was forcible rape and the intended target was M. I believe he knew where M's room was from prior surveillance. I believe he removed the knife from the sheath, which was looped on his belt and entered through the slider in the kitchen and went directly to M's room, finding her asleep. I believe he unbuckled his belt in preparation for a sexual attack at which time three things happened - (1) M awoke and fought back, (2) the sheath slipped off his undone belt, and (3) K heard the commotion and entered the room. At that point, he killed both of them.

I think his intent was to quickly exit the house the way he came, out the kitchen slider. Coming down the stairs he heard X moving around and saying "someone is here". Now he has a problem. Does he leave or does he dispatch a witness who may call 911 in the next few minutes? I believe he decided to kill X, not knowing E was there. I think he saw X as he rounded the corner and attacked her near the doorway or just inside the doorway of her room. Then he saw E and turned his attention to him as the bigger threat. I think X was still alive, injured, and crying. When he finishes with E he turns back to X telling her he will help her, but he finishes killing her instead.

Then he walks back down the hall, passing DM's room, and exits the way he came in through the kitchen slider. He showed no interest in DM's room or the two bedrooms on the first floor. I believe his focus was entirely on M's room on the third floor, he chose the most efficient route to get there, and did not expect K to be on the third floor at all. I think he thought he could rape (not kill) M on the third floor and then slip away.

I think that's why this crime seems so sloppy. He planned to commit a rape, in a college town, which is a fairly common occurrence and does not attract national attention and 50 FBI agents. He wasn't planning a mass murder; he was planning a rape and at most a local investigation by a local detective or two.

This is all my own opinion and my general sense of the case at this time.

All rape is forcible, FYI.

 

[10ofRods]

Why? Someone can be killed in seconds with such a substantial weapon.

I believe USMC training aims at being able to dispatch someone with a knife in 15 seconds or less. IMO, based on what military and security contractors, etc. have posted in blogs or on SM.

Example (5 people killed quickly with 1 knife included);

How could one person with a knife kill five people at a party?

'It’s just not that hard to take someone out with a knife. It just isn’t,' said Steve Tarani, a former intelligence and security contractor

nationalpost.com

 

[want2solveit]

If BK was 18 in 1990, he would be 50 now.

BK wasn't even alive

So right, I screwed up!

 

[thoughts101]

It could be that Xana was in the living room on her phone waiting for the DoorDash to arrive, saw the car headlights pull up to the front of the house from the window in the living room.

jmo

JMO too - it still does not explain why she would state that out aloud given that it was late at night and people were in bed as it was late, and they could be asleep. I believe by this point the perp was in the house given the timings/sequencing in the PCA. She saw him, IMO, in the house, and said it to alert others.

 

[RainbowRoad]

Question about TikTok: Per the statement from Payne (BBM), "A review of records obtained from a forensic download of Kernodle's phone showed this could also have been Kernodle as her cellular phone indicated she was likely awake and using the TikTok app at approximately 4:12 a.m." I don't use that app but I assume it works like many others, whereby you can choose to let the app show you as online or offline. Does anyone think Payne's statement was based on her showing as online, or did she perhaps post something timestamped 4:12 a.m.? I'm sort of getting my hopes up that her phone was recording when the murderer was in her home.

My thoughts are she was eating door dash and scrolling TikTok, not creating one.

 

[10ofRods]

He may have played with the dog to settle him down? With such a busy house I imagine being acknowledged probably quietened the dog down

My dog (and most of the dogs I've known in my life) play by doing a lot of growling, usually accompanied with jumping around and if possible, a game of tug of war or fetch (where the item fetched is growled over).

Dogs love pretending to be scary while playing. I am sure that DM can be more specific about this in court, if she needs to. I hope she doesn't need to.

 

[LAMARQ]

I've been following along here and also watching news coverage somewhat obsessively. I don't think BK wanted to get caught but I do think he'll want to be studied now that he's in custody. I think, MOO, that he'll confess at some point and spill everything. I think if we see his family suddenly travel to ID when there's really nothing happening court wise then that will be telling. He'll want to meet with his family first. All my personal speculation. I hope he does confess to spare the families and friends of those in the house that night.

I don't think he'll have the decency to confess all before a trial. I think he'll want the full trial experience, so to speak.

You are probably right, but part of me feels, MOO, like his family is close and they'll be key to getting him to confess and not drag them through the mud. Of course, I haven't read much about the family to really know if they're close or how his childhood was, but he does acknowledge them/tells them he loves them during his extradition hearing.

I Love You

 

[RockyMtnWay_406]

Google trends search "Bryan Kohberger Suspect" from 2008 to present. Check for yourself .. this is interesting.

 

[gizmobtj]

I think he was there at 0404 (in the wee hours of the morning) when he was cruising around just prior, and then executes the three point turn.

It is a very brief time indeed - and in fact, to me is so far the most surprising fact we've learned from the PCA. Who would have thought that?

Which is why I believe he went in to kill, used his boxing skills combined with big knife "skill" and rapidly bore down upon his targets. I believe he thought speedy skilling would reduce his own overall risk, as an apparent proponent of Rational Criminal Theory or whatever that's called in criminology (this is from some source posted yesterday, a student or professor mentioned it but I can't find the link so IMO he liked that theory).

Rational Choice Theory is what it's called (at least I bookmarked the proper name). The idea that explaining a crime is best done by considering that criminals are capable of reasoning and rational action, within the framework of their own goals.

I think this particular person would have a hard time actually going back into the house (which he wanted to do, IMO, when he realized the sheath was missing) in broad daylight. He would have had a hard time facing up to his bloody crimes in the light of day.

This man hoped for a relatively "clean" experience for himself and planned his murders (including where he placed the stab wounds) with that in mind and I believe we may hear more about that at the prelim or whenever the autopsies are eventually discussed. Things went to plan on the third floor, more or less, but because Xana was still up and about on the second floor, he may have been flustered. He may even have injured himself, as Xana was not in bed and his method (probably kneeling on the victim's legs or similar in order to immobilize them) was thwarted. She did not bleed out on the mattress as he had planned, there was blood all over the floor and he stepped in it.

So the latent print(s) and the visible prints, as well as the sheath were all things he did not plan to leave behind. I wonder if any DNA would have been found if not for the knife sheath. Fibers, maybe, but I bet he's disposed of every item he wore that night, along with the knife - probably that very night. LE may have some idea of how many times he stopped (some of his stops seem to be documented in the PCA).

I know a lot of times these things can take time (like BTK wanting to torture and bind people). But if the person just wants to kill, it wouldn't take anytime at all. This is more akin to a special forces night raid on a house in Iraq than a sadistic serial killer who wants to hang out. Makes me think that the killer came in to kill one person, ended up two, then four and wad a hurry to get moving. By the time the roommate is in the picture, I'm sure he was just done

 

[monkey222]

Agreed. This guy is a creeper, IMO. He lurks around the fringes of other people's lives, being pretty much an isolated, asocial person himself. I find it very hard to believe that Nov 12-13 was the first time he put himself in the mind of a criminal and acted out. He worked up to it. I don't know if there will ever be evidence of him being in the house before, as I do not think he could easily have joined in a mostly Greek life house party (but maybe - and there were other parties in that same neighborhood frequently). If it's true that the slider was rarely locked, and if the students went to school as students do, he might have gone in during the day and had a good look around - how else does he know where to go to find people in that house?

By peeping outside their property in the night. Clearly he could see different girls in different rooms that had windows.

 

[joeconn4]

Sachi wrote at 6:31pm yesterday: "I bet you haven't put your trash in your neighbors trash instead of your own either
(with surgical gloves on at 4 am)"

Just wanted to comment that I routinely put trash in my neighbors trash cans, sometimes late at night and sometimes with gloves on (not surgical gloves!!). Where I live the HOA provides trash service with individual pickup at our homes as opposed to a common dumpster. If I see trash blowing around the street I'll pick it up and put it in whoever's can is closest. It's not specifically "my trash", but it's not part of the trash the household who put the can out either. Sometimes if I'm lazy I'll toss my trash (small items like a fast food bag out of my truck) into my neighbors can if it's out at the curb for pickup and I'm not planning on putting my can out that week. Nobody cares because trash service is a part of the fees we all pay for where I live.

 

[kittythehare]

I wonder if he dumped it during his very quick trip to Albertsons.

FBI watched Idaho 'killer' take out the trash wearing surgical gloves

The officers were tasked with tracking Kohberger so they could arrest him as soon as a warrant was issued as well as trying to get hold of a DNA sample.

www.dailymail.co.uk

He may have retained it still.
I don't think heat was on until Dec7 when LE released make of vehicle with incorrect year , but, he would already have changed plates at that point which in his opinion might have mitigated it a little.

I think he did document the staking, possibly also the killings and if his next morning visit was not in an attempt to recoup the knife sheath on the offchance he could have dropped it on the road, outside or close to wherever he had parked it suggests to me it was to create another page in his blockbuster thesis or whatever it was intended to be in his head..

To that end it could have been valuable.
As well as trophy value..