ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 62

[ilovewings]

Isn't it sad? He really dislikes/disapproves of himself. He admits he can be violent, and that some of the meds prescribed have been disastrous. I wonder if this became a pattern for him. He keeps trying, goes to doctors, things keep going sideways - until this awful crime. I really want to know what the final triggers were. It was likely too much for him to try and keep up the performance of normality.

Meanwhile, people all around him are progressing through their phases of life with joy and happiness. He worries that he'll never acquire social skills.

But. MOST people who are like this do not become mass murderers. Someone upthread mentioned that of perhaps he was delusional (a result depersonalization and derealization) If so, he's one of the few people who actually admitted it and wrote it down before he did it. He actually gives a list of his symptoms and why he thinks he's a lost cause (to paraphrase).

I don't feel sad for him- if in fact he is the killer, he brutally sadistically, violently and horribly butchered four innocent young people. I will save my sadness for these four people, whose lives were cut short by a maniac.

 

[kittythehare]

For real... what is this receptionist thinking? Just as he was caught on video, she will be also. Her establishment will likely pull tapes from his visit that day and identify/punish her.

And those that manipulated her into giving that information and went on to publish it know that very well.
I'm inclined to disregard every published word in this case..

 

[Diogenetic]

Yes, that is true. But I can’t resolve him being a bright, very intelligent teen according to friends, soon to be considered brilliant by a professor, but only went to high school part time while enrolled in a HVAC Vocational Training program instead of college prep coursework, as far as I understand.
He was in some kind of supposed junior LE club in 2011 and at the same professed an interest in becoming an Army Ranger all while allegedly posting of profound disturbances in VS, allegedly.

All while enrolled in a blue collar job training program at 16, allegedly using heroin, allegedly doing rehab, getting a school guard job only to then begin zipping through two degrees with honors?!?!
Is that not all a very peculiar path and trajectory? MOO

I don't know that this is a particularly strange trajectory. It seems to fit together to me. If he was doing heroin in high school he may have been struggling academically and moved to a vocational track. That makes sense. We don't know if he did rehab, I don't think anyone has said for sure he did. Some have mentioned it in the context of if he had he may have been diagnosed with an abuse mental disorder, which would be an interesting detail.
As far as zipping through degrees fo all we know he took four or five years to do a two year associates. The school he got his BS and MS or MA from is not a particularly difficult school. And "honors" can be 3.5. I know plenty of people who did drugs in HS and did very badly, and then did extremely well in undergrad and grad. That he would cast about for some discipline and camaraderie considering military is very common.

The only thing that stands out with this guy as out there and highly unusual are that he was doing heroin in high school, which is a level above say smoking dope, even every day. And the text attributed to him, which is roughly 50% normal teenage angst and 50% something else.

 

[ilovewings]

IMO I politely disagree with your last sentence, after all, I believe a defence attorney’s job is really just to show reasonable doubt, in any way possible. MOO

I have seen defense attorneys rip the victims apart and come up with outlandish defenses, all the while trashing the dead victims. This is especially true in high profile cases. Look what Jose Baez did to Casey Anthony's father-- some people really believe he either killed Caylee or was involved in her death. And this was with not one scintilla of evidence. It was a merciless, cruel and vile defense to save his defendant- and worst of all IT WORKED.

 

[RANCH]

IMO I politely disagree with your last sentence, after all, I believe a defence attorney’s job is really just to show reasonable doubt, in any way possible. MOO

In my opinion the defense would want to show the jury there's reasonable doubt that's believable.

Unbelievable tales that are not supported by evidence wont get the desired result. Instead it could anger the jury and cause harm to the defendant, ruining any chance of an acquittal or hung jury. JMO.

 

[jumpingjackflash]

This article says is was a routine medical appt. He could have had cuts and bruises checked out, but it appears the appt was made prior to the murders and not for a more urgent matter.

Idaho murders suspect was 'charming' at medical appointment

Idaho murders suspect Bryan Kohberger attended a routine medical appointment in the days after the killings where he 'charmed' staff by being 'chatty'.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Idaho murders suspect Bryan Kohberger attended a routine medical appointment in the days after the killings and 'charmed' staff by being 'chatty'.

Chatty = wanted to be remembered by medical staff = confident that medical staff would not recall seeing any visible wounds MOO

 

[isabella88]

So tragic. His TAT posts show a bright young man who writes well and is perceptive and honest about his fears and struggles. He was facing a serious illness/disability, was keenly aware of his problems and kept looking for and trying different solutions that might help him have a normal life.

IMO, it will be interesting to see what role the mental health system played in his life. For better or worse.

 

[10ofRods]

I bet I missed it, but where was it said it was a WSU clinic? The article said a doctor's office near his home.

Oh, I thought it was said to be the student health center. I need to fact check that, but it's not the most pressing issue in this case.

I thought the article said "most students didn't come back and keep their appointments," I assumed it was a student health center.

MOO.

 

[Auntie Cipation]

I have a rather gory thought about why the search warrant might have been sealed using the language it did.

Behind spoiler in the hopes that means non-WS members can't see it:

Spoiler

I keep thinking back to when the bodies were first found and LE said it was a targeted crime, even though their basis for saying that was not made obvious to the public. Also, the responding LE (or maybe it was the coroner) said words to the effect that the crime scene was among the most disturbing they had ever seen.

Now, of course, four people stabbed in their college bedrooms might be gory enough by itself to warrant that language, but I had creepier images come to mind, sort of in the theme of the Manson murders.

I thought that maybe he had either mutilated the bodies in specific ways (like using the knife on skin to 'write' a message or to cut off body parts) or, a la Manson, had written words on the wall in blood.

Now, with the sealing of the search warrant at BK's apartment, I wonder if he did something even worse, such as take "souvenirs", not from the room but from the bodies themselves. Sorry for this horrible image.

That seems sufficiently horrific that, if known publicly, might have prompted public vigilantism which is what the language of the sealed warrant was referring to?

Although -- BK was already in custody so I'm not sure my reasoning about how vigilantism might compromise the investigation if this info were revealed, even makes sense. Maybe, hopefully, I'm way wrong on this idea.

All MOO"

 

[Diogenetic]

Bodycam footage shows Kaylee Goncalves speaking to cops

Moscow Police responded to the King Road home on August 16 for a noise complaint, when Kaylee Goncalves could be seen speaking to officers outside.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Newly released body camera footage shows slain University of Idaho student Kaylee Goncalves speaking to cops three months before she and three friends were brutally murdered.

Moscow Police responded to the off-campus home Goncalves and her friends were renting on August 16, after neighbors complained about the noise coming from an apparent party at the house.

Goncalves, 21, was polite and respectful as an officer let her off with a warning.

The video, released Wednesday by the Law and Crime Network, documents the Moscow Police's visit to the King Road home back in August.

Goncalves could be seen coming out a sliding glass door wearing a tan strapless dress as she greets the officers on the scene, saying, 'Hey guys.'

A cop then asks if she knows why they were called to the home, to which Goncalves replied, 'I assume noise.'

The cop then confirmed that the Moscow Police Department did, in fact, receive a call about the excessive noise coming from the home, noting there was a 'big speaker right there.'

He went on to say he had 'nothing against having a party [but] once neighbor's start calling in, then we have an issue.'

'Fair,' Goncalves replied.

I think one angle on this is it *may* go to reticence of surviving roommate calling the cops. I think every who is open minded e supports the very likely core reason would be natural confusion from the severe shock. But worry about generating more cop visits and problems from that may have also entered her mind.

 

[Karin1974]

I have seen defense attorneys rip the victims apart and come up with outlandish defenses, all the while trashing the dead victims. This is especially true in high profile cases. Look what Jose Baez did to Casey Anthony's father-- some people really believe he either killed Caylee or was involved in her death. And this was with not one scintilla of evidence. It was a merciless, cruel and vile defense to save his defendant- and worst of all IT WORKED.

IMO I agree with you & I don’t believe CA’s father had anything to do with it - I believe CA acted alone & I struggle to understand how she got away with it. MOO

 

[WingsOverTX]

Good questions.

I think he didn't really care and does not currently care about getting away with it. He felt cowmpelled to do it and while he did not want to be caught, it wasn't his top priority.

I think he wants the notoriety (he thinks academia awards fame and fortune, as that's what he's seen in some of his prior experiences, but in fact, it's just a long hard grind to get a public job as a criminologist - or an academic job; to my knowledge, there are no freelance criminologists who haven't already written books and sold scripts, etc).

I think he knew he'd caught and prepared for this phase of defending himself in advance.

Why? I have two theories. Either part of him realized he really needs to be caught and he's daring Society to catch him (meaning: he knows he can't control himself and that he's a monster, so we need to stop him).

OR, he is hoping merely for book deals and fame, as you suggest. Maybe both theories can be right at the same time.

I want to add that many criminals express some degree of relief at being contained and prevented from any further evil actions. This is usually only one of the things they tell themselves.

In a weird way, we're seeing a generational shift in how mass murder/potential serial killing works or gets set into motion. "You're okay, you're fine" as his mantra (if true) is not what Random Maniac Murderers were saying to themselves back in the 1950's, as far as I can tell. He's something like Attias or Rodger (and he knows this). It's not a suicide-by-cop situation, it's a "containment by state prison" kind of situation.

Exactly. Excellent analysis (as usual). This is the way I see his actions. That knife sheath says it all IMO.

 

[10ofRods]

Yeah, and I'd think all employees at WSU were strictly warned not to speak to the press. If not, someone just lost their job. MOO

One would think that would be true at a private practice, as well. Perhaps moreso.

Student healthcare students often have lots of students working there.

 

[AuntTricia]

I have seen defense attorneys rip the victims apart and come up with outlandish defenses, all the while trashing the dead victims. This is especially true in high profile cases. Look what Jose Baez did to Casey Anthony's father-- some people really believe he either killed Caylee or was involved in her death. And this was with not one scintilla of evidence. It was a merciless, cruel and vile defense to save his defendant- and worst of all IT WORKED

They will rake the two survivors over the coals regarding the house not having window coverings and the doors not being secure. It is going to be BRUTAL if and when it comes to trial.

 

[rahod1]

I bet, BK defense attorneys are going to try to create reasonable doubt and say that Ethan and/or his brother could have committed the crime, as a reason for thr vehicles being there. And that would be absolutely awful and disrespectful.

Not in a million years. Cardinal SIN>>> Attacking the victims

 

[passionflower]

BL was chatty and happier after he made his dream come true, bet he watched news and relived the whole scene seeing the house, news etc. he is not like regular people. This was his thrill!!!

 

[isabella88]

I have seen defense attorneys rip the victims apart and come up with outlandish defenses, all the while trashing the dead victims. This is especially true in high profile cases. Look what Jose Baez did to Casey Anthony's father-- some people really believe he either killed Caylee or was involved in her death. And this was with not one scintilla of evidence. It was a merciless, cruel and vile defense to save his defendant- and worst of all IT WORKED.

And look at poor Nicole Brown Simpson. Or Jennifer Levin. Or Chandra Levy. Definite pattern there of trashing victims.

 

[AuntTricia]

BL was chatty and happier after he made his dream come true, bet he watched news and relived the whole scene seeing the house, news etc. he is not like regular people. This was his thrill!!!

And no doubt, considering the high that the murders gave him, he would have killed again. MOO

 

[10ofRods]

Exactly. Excellent analysis (as usual). This is the way I see his actions. That knife sheath says it all IMO.

Totally agree - as a symbol and key piece of evidence. Plus, he's able to go onward (into doom, as it were) even though he left behind that crucial piece of evidence.

 

[girlrx]

It is actually a HIPAA violation to discuss both his attendance and his demeanour.

IMO, It's a violation only if health information was disclosed or it was a behavior health visit.