ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 69

[jepop]

Ah! It just occurred to me (and I’m sure somebody has already made this observation here ), but this might be what BK had decided he would say if questioned about his proximity to the house. That he was at Walmart “the shopping is better”, after all. In other words, he already thought through what he would say if questioned in certain situations. Like, for example, maybe he envisioned getting stopped and questioned while driving around Moscow or Pullman and that’s the answer he would have ready to go. What he didn’t anticipate is what he would say if he was pulled out of his house by a special response team in the middle of the night. So he tried his explanation anyway. And it sounded quite different in that context… flippant and incriminating… IMO MOO

Except, I guess, Walmart isn't open in early morning hours MOO

 

[Bluebythec]

But we were talking about times of alleged stalking, not the time of murder - well, that is what I thought.

Yes, I was looking to see if the pings from previous times would have also been picked up if he went to the gym.

 

[jepop]

MOO- I fully believe BK is the person responsible for these crimes…. But I do worry he could have protected himself in some way by establishing /befriending someone in the in the neighborhood before committing these murders that could account for his phone pinging in close proximity to the girls house the previous 12 times mentioned in the affidavit.

The only reason this is something I’ve considered is because I’m still baffled by how someone with such knowledge of LE and the technological tools used to prosecute and connect murderers to the area , victims, etc via the use of forensic surveillance and cell tower dumps Would be so careless and stupid. And not think of this.

So it almost has me thinking maybe his cockiness is for a reason. Yes …… HIGHLY unlikely…. But it is something I worry about for the prosecution in this case…. Due to the fact I know we as the public still know so little of what LE knows… and what each sides attorneys are privy to about the case.

I think we as the public know the absolute minimum right now and that is understandable and what is best right now to get justice for the victims and their families…

But I still worry about this and those pings possibly being accounted for in some other way. Because right now… besides the knife sheath …. That is the primary factual evidence that screams guilty to me that the public knows about currently.

If the defense focuses on discrediting the cell tower pings, (which I’m sure they are working incredibly hard to do and going to try to come up with any and all excuses)… if they were in fact able to discover any other reason this could have occurred …. It could make prosecution slightly more difficult not having those pings to use at trial.

However I still think a conviction will occur and BK will receive the maximum sentence with the other evidence against him the public currently isn’t privy to.

All MOO

I'm sure the prosecution are currently anlysing and collating a lot more digital data from BK's phone and other digital devices. MOO. PCA was enough to establish probable cause. PCA would have stood without the pings IMO. There's going to be much more presented on both sides come prelim hearing and then (potentially) at trial IMO

 

[CGray123]

BBM: Thank you for the more detailed and informed opinion on what the COI process would have been. As long as any potential COI has been properly addressed, which would mean neither BK's defense or the prosecution would be impaired, for eg AT is not defending BK whilst also giving info or receiving info about the prosecution owing to her earlier rep of a parent, I don't see the issue.
MOO

I wondered earlier whether there is any public perception factor that might be adddressed under Idaho law?

Another good question.

Decades ago, the ABA Canons of Professional Ethics proscribed lawyer conduct that created "an appearance of impropriety" (Canon 9). This has since been repealed as an ethical standard in favor of more specific rules. See, ABA Model Rules and IRPC Rule 8.4. Some states still have this rule for judges.

I have said before that the State Public Defender may have an interest in maintaining confidence in his office that puts him in a difficult position. This essentially political issue doesn't trump his obligation to provide BK with the most competent defense he can. And why would BK voluntarily give up AT? Is there a better attorney for him, qualified to represent him in a capital case?

 

[al66pine]

"Death Penalty Qualified" Attys in ID. “Capital Counsel Roster”

Snipped from post by @North_Idaho_Nony
".... Anne Taylor is the only first chair capital qualified PD left in all of north Idaho.
For those interested in learning more about how things work here: Home"
@North_Idaho_Nony

Yes, from info below,* Anne Taylor is the only atty designated as 'Lead" from No.ID. Appears that reaching further south in the state would mean picking atty residing a couple hundred miles from Moscow, a long haul. If Taylor could not continue rep'ing BCK, do you think a 'long-distance" ID licensed atty could be appt'ed?
Anyone else have thoughts on this? TiA

________________________________________
* Briefly, ID.’s Dec. 15, 2022 list of attys approved by the st Public Defense Commission* to rep. INDIGENT defendants in CAPITAL cases has 29 attys, w only 13 attys qualified as "LEAD TRIAL” and 23 attys qualified as "CO-COUNSEL TRIAL."
The list headed “Capital Counsel Roster” is available here:
https://pdc.idaho.gov/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/IdahoCapitalCounselRoster20221215.pdf
Roster shows for ea atty a number (1 thru 7) indicating "Dist. of Resid." referring to the state’s seven judicial districts. Some atty's email addresses may reflect their county location. Ex. of hypo email, attyname@adacounty.id.gov. Otherwise have to look at judicial district #, then consult map & table below.
Map and table of Idaho District Courts and Counties

Idaho's District Courts | Supreme Court

isc.idaho.gov

 

[jepop]

Another good question.

Decades ago, the ABA Canons of Professional Ethics proscribed lawyer conduct that created "an appearance of impropriety" (Canon 9). This has since been repealed as an ethical standard in favor of more specific rules. See, ABA Model Rules and IRPC Rule 8.4. Some states still have this rule for judges.

I have said before that the State Public Defender may have an interest in maintaining confidence in his office that puts him in a difficult position. This essentially political issue doesn't trump his obligation to provide BK with the most competent defense he can. And why would BK voluntarily give up AT? Is there a better attorney for him, qualified to represent him in a capital case?

Thanks again for your response. It would compromises a fair defense IMO, if a defendent were forced to change lawyers for no reason other than political pressure, arising out of ill informed public perception of a COI that does not exist. If there is no COI (and that is the way it appears to me) then to me this is one big non-issue. MOO.

An appearance of impropriety is vague. Glad to hear it has been replaced by more specific rules. MOO

 

[Sleuth2010]

Another good question.

Decades ago, the ABA Canons of Professional Ethics proscribed lawyer conduct that created "an appearance of impropriety" (Canon 9). This has since been repealed as an ethical standard in favor of more specific rules. See, ABA Model Rules and IRPC Rule 8.4. Some states still have this rule for judges.

I have said before that the State Public Defender may have an interest in maintaining confidence in his office that puts him in a difficult position. This essentially political issue doesn't trump his obligation to provide BK with the most competent defense he can. And why would BK voluntarily give up AT? Is there a better attorney for him, qualified to represent him in a capital case?

The problem with small town's. Everyone knows one another and attends public events together. To err on the safe side, a public defender from Boise might be better. You know the killer will appeal anyway. No get out of jail free card.

 

[SophieRose]

You’re right. The fact that AT is the only qualified capital case defense attorney is an important distinction. I can see where the law and AT might conclude she has an obligation to defend BK because no one else locally can. I say if it were me I wouldn’t have taken his case but given that, I’m not really sure what I’d do.

Makes me wonder though: What would happen if more than one person winds up beimg charged w/this crime and both face the death penalty? Like what’s happening now on the other end of the State w/Lori and Chad Daybell?

I’m inclined to think that BK acted alone but if he didn’t it seems the State would need to drum up a second DP qualified attorney, even if none are available locally. Each defendant would need their own attorney if for no other reason than to be able to point fingers at each other.

Could the State hire a death penalty certified private attorney? I recognize there would be a problem with fees (privates cost so much more) to work out.

Here's one.

Criminal Defense Lawyers in Coeur D’Alene | CDA Criminal Attorney

If you have been arrested call Walsh & Lewis PLLC, our Coeur D'Alene criminal attorneys are highly skilled and experienced. Contact us for a free consultation.

www.lawgroupcda.com

One of our attorneys is one of only two private practice attorneys in North Idaho qualified by the Supreme Court to defend death penalty cases.

 

[jepop]

If he attended it - he will have alibi.
But, did he?
Are there any records of him being in the gym on those dates?

We don't have any specific dates (at the moment, LE know dates but these were deemed unnecessary for inclusion in PCA) for the 12 pings IIRC. Or, sorry, perhaps you are talking about NOV 13, between c2.30am and 4.20am? Yes, if BK could prove he was at a gym on that date and between those times, that would be an alibi. Any other time, prior to Nov 13 would not be an alibi at all, IMO.

(and if BK was at the gym on early morn of NOv 13th, I think he would have told his lawyer, pulled the records and witnesses, and he would not be in jail right now). MOO

 

[detectivewannab]

MOO BK was offended by not being hired by the police so he thought he would out smart them with the murders.

 

[insearchoflight]

MOO BK was offended by not being hired by the police so he thought he would out smart them with the murders.

But didn’t the stalking start before his interview or application?

Mooo I think the residents at the King street house all embodied everything he wanted but didn’t have. It was a jealous rage. I still can’t fathom why he spared two people though. Still looking for that answer.

Edited for grammar

 

[gliving]

MOO BK was offended by not being hired by the police so he thought he would out smart them with the murders.

I don't think we know if he was hired or not.

 

[jepop]

IMO whether the matter the attorney represented the victims parent(s) on is/isn’t related to BKs charges shouldn’t matter. Not one bit.

I have a problem with a potential prosecution witness on the stand being cross-examined by their former attorney. I just do.

<modsnip - sleuthing family> The investigation is still ongoing and at this point there’s no way of knowing whose testimony may or may not be relevant.

I also think it’s wrong for someone to have to get a new lawyer so that originl one can represent someone else. Even when the replacement client isn’t accused of killing the first client’s child in cold blood.

Sure BK has rights, but so does the original client.

I understand the law may see it differently, but that doesn’t make it right.

MOO

COI laws and rules in legal fraternity though, are designed to make it fair and right for legal clients. Intended to protect from compromise clients' cases (on both the prosecution and defense sides).. One instance where the rules do coincide with ethics. MOO

 

[Sundog]

Could the State hire a death penalty certified private attorney? I recognize there would be a problem with fees (privates cost so much more) to work out.

Here's one.

Criminal Defense Lawyers in Coeur D’Alene | CDA Criminal Attorney

If you have been arrested call Walsh & Lewis PLLC, our Coeur D'Alene criminal attorneys are highly skilled and experienced. Contact us for a free consultation.

www.lawgroupcda.com

One of our attorneys is one of only two private practice attorneys in North Idaho qualified by the Supreme Court to defend death penalty cases.

I don't think that would be a good use of taxpayers' money if there are public defenders who are death penalty qualified in the state who are able to take the case. I don't think the state attorney general office could justify it.

 

[Palinsmom]

BK’s car matching the Elantra caught on film and coinciding with the movement of his cell phone before and after the murders will be hard for defense to explain away.

An excuse of there’s “better shopping in Moscow“ wouldn’t be believable at 4 am.

jmo

Sadly, it works if in his mind he was shopping for victims
My speculation

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

DNA is enough for juries to convict. The rest shows he had motive, means and opportunity and NO ALIBI.

You can't discount the DNA as just circumstantial, it's pretty direct if you want more direct evidence.

I never called DNA circumstantial. I'm pretty sure I called it direct. I'm talking specifically about the actual circumstantial evidence when I say circumstantial.

 

[Cryptic]

Could the State hire a death penalty certified private attorney? I recognize there would be a problem with fees (privates cost so much more) to work out.

I think the answer to your question could be a murky:

Yes, the state could hire a private defense attorney- but actually doing so is far more theoretical than actual.

That murky answer aside, the State can hire private defense attorneys. One example is Timorthy Mcveigh who was given a famous defense attorney- full market cost paid for by Uncle Sam.

This was because the State had an interest in nipping conspiracy theorist's claims that McVeigh was framed in the bud (real perps were of course, Islamacists, the Mossad, The NWO etc etc- right?). For his appeal, however, Mcveigh got the standard public defender.

Likewise, California footed the bill for the Menendez brother's LA area acclaimed defensive team for the third trial. CA's interest was to prevent an appeal based on: "We had a complex defense and finite resources. State has near infinite resources. They exhausted our cash, then kept rolling the dice until they finally found a jury willing to convict...."

In the end, however, I think the State providing private attorneys is rare, and perhaps very rare. Resources must be proportional for each defendant unless a there is a clear interest in doing otherwise.

I am pretty certain that if there is a DP certified public defender, then that is who BK is going to get. The State may throw in another public defender as an assistant. But... I doubt they are going to fund an Idaho dream team.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

OK but no one in this day and age with the technology we have in this huge of a case is wrongfully convicted. IMO.

That may be what you believe, but I don't believe history will prove you right.

Data from 2020:

https://www.law.umich.edu/special/exoneration/Documents/2021AnnualReport.pdf

"Homicide: 64 defendants, half of all exonerees, were exonerated of homicide—61 for murder, two for manslaughter, and one for accessory to murder."

It still happens, even in this day and age. I choose to be careful and keep an open mind about ALL possibilities based on the facts and evidence until the trial. You can choose to approach it your way, that's fine.

If we all agreed, this place would be no fun. I think it's fine for us to see it differently and have different approaches to the evidence.

MOO.

 

[SophieRose]

I never called DNA circumstantial. I'm pretty sure I called it direct. I'm talking specifically about the actual circumstantial evidence when I say circumstantial.

Only time I was on a jury judge said DNA was considered circumstantial.

He can say I was looking to buy a knife and sheath at one time, my DNA could have transferred at the store (wherever) then.

 

[Twistinginthewind]

Idaho murders: Bryan Kohberger attorney withdrew from representing victim's mom​

Fox News/True Crime
By Michael Ruiz
1/24/2023

"The Coeur d'Alene defense attorney representing Idaho student murders suspect Bryan Kohberger had until recently been assigned to defend the mother of one of his alleged victims, court records show.

Kootenai County Public Defender Anne Taylor had previously been assigned to represent <modsnip>, prior to Kohberger’s arrest on Dec. 30 in an unrelated drugs possession case.

Court records show she withdrew on Jan. 5, the same day as Kohberger's initial appearance before an Idaho judge, and has been replaced by attorney Christopher Schwartz."

Idaho murders: Bryan Kohberger attorney withdrew from representing victim's mom