ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 69

[Cassady]

AT entered a provisional appearance when the case was filed, because the PD has an obligation to protect his interests but he was in PA and she did not have a chance to discuss representation - including but not limited to her qualifications and potential conflicts. That's not something you do over the phone. The day he arrived in ID it appears that she had that conversation, and it appears that he accepted her as her counsel because she stayed on the case and appeared in court with him. Does transparency require that we know what was said in those conversations? Do we need to see his decision in writing? I don't. And I'm sorry, but attorney client privilege still trumps even public cynicism. BK is entitled to confidentiality.

BK retains the full range of choices. He can object to AT's representation at any time. He can ask the Idaho Public Defender to appoint someone else. He can hire counsel of his choice. He can accept volunteer counsel from out of state who get qualified in ID to represent him. He can even represent himself.

If you are interested and not satisfied with all the MSM information indicating AT acted appropriately, plus the court's orders approving her actions, you can request from the court copies of the motion for substitution in the parent's case and all supporting documentation, plus the transcript of any hearing held to address the issue. Same for appointment in the BK case.

<modsnip>

Are there any actual attorneys cited or appearing in the MSM that are saying no COI or potential COI?

IMO most of the attorneys commenting in the media are saying there is a COI or potential COI, but a counterview from an actual attorney would be interesting to read/hear....IMO

 

[jimg77]

Hope it’s ok to be asking this so late in the game, and is completely off topic for this thread but was reviewing photos again and noticed a vent on the floor by the sliding glass door upstairs in one of the bedrooms as well as the downstairs sliding glass door. I see no other floor vents throughout the house except these two. Just thinking he could have scraped his shoe or fibers could have gone down into the vent, as well as blood.
I don’t recall there was a previous discussion, sorry for the repeat of it has!

Maybe that's why a HVAC company was called, to check the vents for evidence.

 

[Cool Cats]

For fun, let's say that the only DNA from BCK that LE found at the crime scene was from the knife sheath. I think there could be 100 arguments the defense could explain that away, the top probably being LE's DNA testing might have been faulty. Personally, as a juror, that little bit of DNA would not be enough to convince me BCK was guilty.

I'm curious what you think shows that he had motive, because I am not seeing it just yet? All the public has thus far is contradicting media stories that BCK "messaged" one of the girls more than once and that he "ordered a vegan pizza" at the Mad Greek on a couple of occasions.

The defense can't "explain away" DNA, impossible. The only one who can "explain away" DNA is a DNA forensic expert.

Juries decide the weight to give DNA evidence according to DNA expert forensic testimony. The defense can't make the jury discount the DNA evidence. The jury will then decide if it was proven beyond a reasonable doubt that this is in fact BK's DNA.

If the defense can't get the DNA evidence thrown out before trial, then they will have a DNA expert testify for the jury on why the DNA cannot be BK's DNA, or why the DNA is inconclusive or unreliable, whatever.

But the prosecution will cross examine that expert and bring on their own DNA forensic experts who will testify as to why this DNA is reliable and is 99.9% BK's DNA.

As to motive it is only my opinion that the prosecution will present possible motives.

The prosecution could focus on BK's suspicious questions he asked criminals on reddit not long before
he himself allegedly turned into a criminal.

The prosecution could call witnesses that testify about girls in high school verbally taunting him and turning him down. There could be female witnesses who testify against him as to inappropriate behavior displayed towards them both physically and/or verbally. BK was overheard, in a brewery I think, calling a lady a [email protected]#%& when she ignored him.

The prosecution could focus on BK's fascination with the BTK serial killer because BK deliberately studied under a BTK expert in college, and the BTK serial killer also killed 4 people at one time.

Or the prosecution could accuse BK of an obsession with a victim who ignored him when he got into her
Instagram DM and messaged her. Instead of moving on, he continued to message her multiple times and she continued ignoring him.

JUST WEEKS LATER SHE WAS KILLED - SUSPICIOUS TIMING.

Accused Idaho Killer Bryan Kohberger Repeatedly Messaged One of the Victims on Instagram: Source

"He was persistent," an investigative source on the case tells PEOPLE

people.com

 

[Cindizzi]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1618408764755021824

 

[Sundog]

The defense can't "explain away" DNA, impossible. The only one who can "explain away" DNA is a DNA forensic expert.

Juries decide the weight to give DNA evidence according to DNA expert forensic testimony. The defense can't make the jury discount the DNA evidence. The jury will then decide if it was proven beyond a reasonable doubt that this is in fact BK's DNA.

If the defense can't get the DNA evidence thrown out before trial, then they will have a DNA expert testify for the jury on why the DNA cannot be BK's DNA, or why the DNA is inconclusive or unreliable, whatever.

But the prosecution will cross examine that expert and bring on their own DNA forensic experts who will testify as to why this DNA is reliable and is 99.9% BK's DNA.

As to motive it is only my opinion that the prosecution will present possible motives.

The prosecution could focus on BK's suspicious questions he asked criminals on reddit not long before
he himself allegedly turned into a criminal.

The prosecution could call witnesses that testify about girls in high school verbally taunting him and turning him down. There could be female witnesses who testify against him as to inappropriate behavior displayed towards them both physically and/or verbally. BK was overheard, in a brewery I think, calling a lady a [email protected]#%& when she ignored him.

The prosecution could focus on BK's fascination with the BTK serial killer because BK deliberately studied under a BTK expert in college, and the BTK serial killer also killed 4 people at one time.

Or the prosecution could accuse BK of an obsession with a victim who ignored him when he got into her
Instagram DM and messaged her. Instead of moving on, he continued to message her multiple times and she continued ignoring him. Just weeks later she was killed. SUSPICIOUS TIMING.

Accused Idaho Killer Bryan Kohberger Repeatedly Messaged One of the Victims on Instagram: Source

"He was persistent," an investigative source on the case tells PEOPLE

people.com

I think that BK's survey that he posted on Reddit would be explained that it was a survey for his studies in criminology and was approved by the faculty at his university. The two professors who signed off on the survey would likely be witnesses if needed by the defense.

With regard to the former high school students, I think if they were to testify to having had problems with BK (which I doubt the prosecution would pursue in court), the defense would counter these claims with more recent female friends of BK who would testify the opposite.

The Instagram information has potential if it is every confirmed by LE that BK did send messages to Maddie. Although IIRC, I thought I read MSM stories that mentioned that he sent two messages. If that is true, then it's probably not very significant. JMO.

I think the DNA , car sightings, and cell phone pings are the only strong evidence we know of so far. But, of course, there may be more.

And no doubt each side will have their experts testify about the cell pings and DNA on the sheath.

 

[DizzyB]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1618408764755021824

I was not exactly expecting this but I think it’s better handled sooner than later. In my opinion, BK needs a new attorney. If CK had agreed to AT removing herself and taking on BK, she has certainly changed her mind.

 

[DeDee]

What I found most interesting about the CPA is that the timeline concerning BK's activity begins at 3:26am.

I want to know what BK did on Saturday during the daylight and early evening hours. We know he applied for a position within the PD but we don't know if he was accepted. Is this a possible reason why we know nothing about his whereabouts until 3:26am?

Bottom of page 5 and top of page 6
https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case...it - Exhibit A - Statement of Brett-Payne.pdf

"Kohberger applied for an internship in the fall of 2022 with the Pullman Police Department in Washington"
Suspect in the Idaho college student killings returned home for the holidays weeks after the crime. Here's what we know about him | CNN

Internship
"Interns will be expected to engage in a minimum of twenty (20) duty hours per month. Hour may include, but are not limited to, special and sporting events, training, special assignments, meetings, and unplanned call-outs. Eight (8) of the twenty (20) hours must be ride-along hours with either WSU Police or Pullman Police Department. Three (3) of the twenty (20) hours must be a foot patrol, booking, or bike patrol. Rides with agencies other than WSUPD or PPD will be plain clothes rides and requires prior approval by the Intern Coordinator(s)."
Intern Program | WSU POLICE | Washington State University

"The job was a "graduate research assistantship" created by the university to support local police departments and was set to begin on August 22, the Times reported."
Bryan Kohberger was having "intimate meetings" with police before murders

 

[Auntie Cipation]

Hope it’s ok to be asking this so late in the game, and is completely off topic for this thread but was reviewing photos again and noticed a vent on the floor by the sliding glass door upstairs in one of the bedrooms as well as the downstairs sliding glass door. I see no other floor vents throughout the house except these two. Just thinking he could have scraped his shoe or fibers could have gone down into the vent, as well as blood.
I don’t recall there was a previous discussion, sorry for the repeat of it has!

I agree this is great sleuthing! I don't think the photos of the vents have been discussed here, at least not that I've seen.

However, I think these two photos are both of the same room, KG's room on the 3rd floor. (where, IF it's true that's where the dog was located, then I think it's fairly certain BK didn't go in there).

The reason I think both photos are of that room is because downstairs, the slider is off the kitchen, which the photos don't show. (differing wall paint color suggests these photos were taken at two different times).

In addition, we can see that the vent is aligned with the solid half of the slider, not the part that opens, so it would be less likely someone would walk directly over it. Of course LE should still (and hopefully has) checked the vents for evidence.

Even if these photos both show the same room, the house obviously has these vents all over, presumably at least one in every room, and again, hopefully they have been checked carefully.

 

[YaYa_521]

MOD NOTE:

Please refrain from offering your own interpretation of or speculation on BK's handwriting unless you are a verified expert in the field. Statement analysis, body language analysis, amateur handwriting analysis is not allowed unless sourced to a credentialed, forensic specialist involved in the case under discussion.

Thanks!

 

[ktm44]

I was not exactly expecting this but I think it’s better handled sooner than later. In my opinion, BK needs a new attorney. If CK had agreed to AT removing herself and taking on BK, she has certainly changed her mind.

I would be interested in the ‘other reasons’ also mentioned.

 

[r3d-ros3]

What I found most interesting about the CPA is that the timeline concerning BK's activity begins at 3:26am.

I want to know what BK did on Saturday during the daylight and early evening hours. We know he applied for a position within the PD but we don't know if he was accepted. Is this a possible reason why we know nothing about his whereabouts until 3:26am?

Bottom of page 5 and top of page 6
https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/122922 Affidavit - Exhibit A - Statement of Brett-Payne.pdf

"Kohberger applied for an internship in the fall of 2022 with the Pullman Police Department in Washington"
Suspect in the Idaho college student killings returned home for the holidays weeks after the crime. Here's what we know about him | CNN

Internship
"Interns will be expected to engage in a minimum of twenty (20) duty hours per month. Hour may include, but are not limited to, special and sporting events, training, special assignments, meetings, and unplanned call-outs. Eight (8) of the twenty (20) hours must be ride-along hours with either WSU Police or Pullman Police Department. Three (3) of the twenty (20) hours must be a foot patrol, booking, or bike patrol. Rides with agencies other than WSUPD or PPD will be plain clothes rides and requires prior approval by the Intern Coordinator(s)."
Intern Program | WSU POLICE | Washington State University

"The job was a "graduate research assistantship" created by the university to support local police departments and was set to begin on August 22, the Times reported."
Bryan Kohberger was having "intimate meetings" with police before murders

It will be interesting to find out whether BK had actually received the internship. He apparently interviewed for the position in April 2022. Obviously whether or not he received the internship (and might have been doing ride-alongs with Pullman PD) would probably not be relevant information for justifying BK's arrest. Still, though, that they included that he applied makes me think he did not receive the internship. Again, IMO. It would be pretty interesting if he spent 20 hours of his free time in September, October, and November doing any of the above activities outlined in the internship.

 

[maconrich]

(snipped)

The prosecution could focus on BK's fascination with the BTK serial killer because BK deliberately studied under a BTK expert in college, and the BTK serial killer also killed 4 people at one time.

Has it been verified that he selected that college for that reason? (admissions essay or anything else) I know there's been speculation but wondering if I missed something. TY.

 

[Helechawagirl]

I agree it's not "nefarious" but the conflict of interest exists & needs to be resolved IMO. Perhaps the decision has been made to keep AT but the victims she has represented on other matters would need to agree, wouldn't they?

I understand options to replace AT are few but in a legal sense to protect the case against BK, formal on-the-record agreements involving the victims would need to be made, wouldn't they?

Also, if it looks odd to a layperson, then a public acknowledgement & clarification of what the law allows is not out of order.

jmo

In my mind, the fact that she represented the mother of one of his alledged victims automatically disqualifies her from the case.

IIRC, the arrest was after the murders so attny had to be aware of the crime.

Now, if she never met with Mrs Kernodle, that’s a different story and I would agree that she should drop that case and work on this one as there seems to be a shortage of qualified dp attnys in Idaho.

So let’s say the case goes to trial and BK is judged guilty; then the attny would have to accuse herself of prejudice so I reverse my original opinion. She is attny for the defendant.

 

[Helechawagirl]

In my mind, the fact that she represented the mother of one of his alledged victims automatically disqualifies her from the case.

IIRC, the arrest was after the murders so attny had to be aware of the crime.

Now, if she never met with Mrs Kernodle, that’s a different story and I would agree that she should drop that case and work on this one as there seems to be a shortage of qualified dp attnys in Idaho.

So let’s say the case goes to trial and BK is judged guilty; then the attny would have to accuse herself of prejudice so I reverse my original opinion. She is attny for the defendant.

I feel kinda stupid.

 

[Ceska]

As I've said, in PA top defense attorneys are asked to defend indigent people on trial for capital crimes.

Yes. But for those who are not indigent, but perhaps do not quite have the funds, defendants who can ask an attorney if they would take the case pro bono.... We have a high profile case in my area where that recently happened.

 

[Cool Cats]

I think that BK's survey that he posted on Reddit would be explained that it was a survey for his studies in criminology and was approved by the faculty at his university. The two professors who signed off on the survey would likely be witnesses if needed by the defense.

With regard to the former high school students, I think if they were to testify to having had problems with BK (which I doubt the prosecution would pursue in court), the defense would counter these claims with more recent female friends of BK who would testify the opposite.

The Instagram information has potential if it is every confirmed by LE that BK did send messages to Maddie. Although IIRC, I thought I read MSM stories that mentioned that he sent two messages. If that is true, then it's probably not very significant. JMO.

I think the DNA , car sightings, and cell phone pings are the only strong evidence we know of so far. But, of course, there may be more.

And no doubt each side will have their experts testify about the cell pings and DNA on the sheath.

I was pondering motive but the prosecution does not have to prove motive.

However, the prosecution likely will want to show the jury that BK had alot of criminal knowledge and interest in criminals and was focused on crime, as opposed to him having nothing to do with crime. The defense will not be able to show that BK had no knowledge or interest in crime.

The prosecution can assert that yes, it is helpful to have a strong background in criminology including crime solving and securing and collecting evidence at a crime scene, when planning to sneak out and commit your own crimes.

Does it prove BK committed murder? No. Do most criminology students commit murder? No.

Could it have been helpful to BK in planning his crimes? Yes.

BK studied how the BTK serial killer got away with so many murders including killing 4 people at once, does this prove BK killed 4 people at once? No.

Could it have been helpful to BK in planning his crimes? Yes.

Just a few weeks before the murders there were several times that BK messaged a victim through her Instagram account, does this prove he planned to murder her? No.

Does this prove he knew who she was and was very aware of her? Yes.

Does this prove he read her Instagram and would have learned personal things about her and seen photos of her roommates? Highly probable.

Is it suspicious that a victim was murdered only a few weeks after BK messaged her multiple times without getting a response from her? The jury may or may not think so.

Is it suspicious that BK killed someone who ignored his multiple messages to her? The jury may or may not think so.

IMPORTANT :

The jury needs to see that BK had an interest and background that was helpful in committing crimes and that through Instagram he knew who one of the victims was, giving him the opportunity to study her Instagram account. It is quite possible BK became aware of her roommates through her Instagram account.

 

[Helechawagirl]

This case becomes more and more of a circus every day. Hope he pleads guilty and doesn’t put the families through a gruesome trial. JMO

 

[jepop]

As an attorney, that you are, why would his legal rep insist upon him not answering the question re: promises or coercion? If the question was not asked, how did he know to skip it? I need understanding. TIA

(My original post included specific data with only one question skipped by the suspect.)

This section, which follows the portion being discussed, refers to how he wishes to be represented. BK skips two boxes:

View attachment 397770

He's only meant to choose one box in the section referred to above "Please choose only one...". He chose yes - court attorney. Then he chose no to repping himself. I guess your point is he didn't skip three? IANAL! MOO

ETA: Sorry to jump off, you're not addressing me. I just noticed the odd anomolies and simply curious to read any responses you get.

ETA x2: though I don't really think the above is necessarily odd. I can see how a person might choose the two boxes that he did even though not per instructions: that is a) yes I want a court appnted Attorney, and b) no, I do not wish to rep myself. That does make sense.

 

[GA_Peach]

I don't see how an attorney who was representing one of the victim's mothers can represent BK. This case was worldwide news. Are you telling me that AT never mentioned this case or offered her condolences to Xana's mom? It is possible that Xana's mom, especially in her grief, may have unwittingly shared information with AT. I would imagine that the things you would say to your own counsel would be very different than what you would say to opposing counsel. While I support a perp's rights to a fair trial, I also support the prosecution being able to try their case without a compromised attorney representing the alleged killer. This is mind-boggling to me.

ETA - It's not like AT represented Xana's mom several years ago. AT had represented Xana's mom from before the murders right up until BK arrived in Idaho.

 

[gliving]

I just noticed this at the Cases of Interest webpage. Looking forward to see if there's an update.

"District court cases on this page are updated every Friday"

Idaho Judicial Cases of Interest