ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 69

Status
Not open for further replies.
I have found much ambiguity within this entire case.

The portion requiring BK's initials in the blanks on the charging doc are seeking to know if BK understands his rights.
The next portion asks him to answer Yes or No to certain questions.


View attachment 397750

Although it may have a much deeper meaning for the suspect, o he is a sly one, the lack of his X in the box means, to me, perhaps, that he doesn't wish to reveal any possible promises or coercion, att:

"Has anyone made you promises or coerced you to act in this matter?"

Source, Page 2 and 3 https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/010523 Notification of Rights.pdf
(acronym att = at this time)

BK was a teacher. IME, he did not overlook the question. He ignored it on purpose and with intentions.

MHOO
I think is likely the box is unchecked because he was told to not check it. The question likely wasn't asked. He wasn't being asked to enter a plea or really do anything affirmative. He already had a PD there so likewise some of those boxes are skipped.
 
BBM

Unfortunately we do not know that yet, although I am hoping that is the case.

We do know he doesn't have an alibi. My opinion.

He can't have an alibi or they couldn't arrest him. An alibi proves that a person was not at a crime scene when a crime took place, the person could not have committed the crime.

Well let's say they arrested him anyway but he had an alibi, proof, he wasn't at the crime scene. Then his attorney would have presented this alibi to the judge and prosecutors and they would have had to let him go. A jury can't convict a person who wasn't at the crime scenes.

DNA on knife sheath? The real killer stole his knife and accidentally left the knife sheath or was setting him up.
 
Last edited:
This is where a criminal profiler (FBI) or a forensic psychologist would come in at trial. I feel certain that the FBI and Moscow PD have already done work on this. An expert can explain to a jury his mental profile, what kind of criminal he is.
Maybe, but the defense could argue that criminal profiling is just junk science.
 
This is where a criminal profiler (FBI) or a forensic psychologist would come in at trial. I feel certain that the FBI and Moscow PD have already done work on this. An expert can explain to a jury his mental profile, what kind of criminal he is.

Maybe, but the defense could argue that criminal profiling is just junk science.
Can we get some links on all this? I'm not sure why there is any real need for a criminal profiler here. JMO
 
I think is likely the box is unchecked because he was told to not check it. The question likely wasn't asked. He wasn't being asked to enter a plea or really do anything affirmative. He already had a PD there so likewise some of those boxes are skipped.

As an attorney, that you are, why would his legal rep insist upon him not answering the question re: promises or coercion? If the question was not asked, how did he know to skip it? I need understanding. TIA

(My original post included specific data with only one question skipped by the suspect.)

This section, which follows the portion being discussed, refers to how he wishes to be represented. BK skips two boxes:

Screenshot 2023-01-25 4.37.36 PM.png
 
Maybe, but the defense could argue that criminal profiling is just junk science.

And that would make a very convincing argument IMO. It surprises me how often on these threads criminal profiling is perceived as a means to identify a guilty suspect.

“The UK government looked at 184 crimes that leveraged profiling and determined that the profile was helpful just 2.7 percent of the time. Maybe you’re wondering why an American author is citing British stats? Because the FBI refuses to even provide this type of data. How often does profiling work for them? They won’t say.

Despite all this, people think profiling is useful. In fact, 86 percent of surveyed psychologists involved in legal cases do. You probably thought it was useful until five minutes ago.

How could a system so relied on at the highest levels for something as serious as murder be almost useless? How did we all get fooled? Turns out it’s not as big a surprise as you might think. A lot of people get fooled by astrology and fake psychics, right? I know, you’re probably thinking, “That’s totally different.” Actually, no. It’s the same. Exactly the same, in fact…..”
 
There are exactly 13 public defenders in the entire state of Idaho qualified to act as lead counsel in capital cases. Anne Taylor is the only one in all of north Idaho.
https://pdc.idaho.gov/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/IdahoCapitalCounselRoster20221215.pdf

Those interested can read more here:
Capital Defending Attorney Qualifications and Roster

And for those interested in better understanding exactly what that means in a state the geographic size of Idaho, you can look at a map of Idaho’s judicial districts here:
Idaho's District Courts | Supreme Court

HTH & MOO!

EBM: Moscow, where the quadruple murder took place, is in Latah County. My apologies for forgetting to include that important detail.
I know that attorneys can come in from other areas and ask to be certified to practice in a particular state, but I don't know exactly how that process works. It would also be interesting to know how many attorneys (rather than just public defenders) are DP qualified in Idaho.
 
As an attorney, that you are, why would his legal rep insist upon him not answering the question re: promises or coercion? If the question was not asked, how did he know to skip it? I need understanding. TIA

(My original post included specific data with only one question skipped by the suspect.)

This section, which follows the portion being discussed, refers to how he wishes to be represented. BK skips two boxes:

View attachment 397770
In regard to the coercion question, I think it could be skipped because it just isn't relevant to the proceeding that was happening. I am just speculating here of course. And the skipped attorney questions were likewise not applicable to situation. He could have checked "no" but either he decided or his attorney told him to just skip them. I don't think its a big deal anyway.
 
This is where a criminal profiler (FBI) or a forensic psychologist would come in at trial. I feel certain that the FBI and Moscow PD have already done work on this. An expert can explain to a jury his mental profile, what kind of criminal he is.
Maybe I just don't understand the use of the term "criminal profiler" here. But isn't profiling used during the investigation? I don't see how it would be used during the trial to convince a jury of BK's guilt by explaining his mental processes. How could a profiler do that if the profiler hadn't talked to BK? (And why would BK talk to him/her?) I'm pretty sure there won't be testimony saying "BK fits the profile of the criminal who committed these murders because he's x, y, z...' (I think that would be propensity evidence but I'm not an attorney.)
JMO
 
I know that attorneys can come in from other areas and ask to be certified to practice in a particular state, but I don't know exactly how that process works. It would also be interesting to know how many attorneys (rather than just public defenders) are DP qualified in Idaho.

It’s called pro hac vice. I don’t know much about its use on the criminal side (or in ID), but it’s not an uncommon practice in certain civil areas. Speaking generally, the out-of-state atty has to have some in-state atty to vouch for them (the exact degree of involvement of the local attorney likely varies among states), agree to abide by local rules, and be in good standing in their home states. Opposing counsel can always oppose the motion but that’s relatively rare IME on the civil side; it’s basically a formality.

 
I guess I missed proof that BK has been given options and has chosen AT. I thought the conflict was AT having represented victims, recently dropping one so she could take up BK's case. How is BK to intervene? How do we know he is even aware of these conflicts with 2 victims?

I can't argue the law as IANAL. But saying the courts would be breaking procedure & precedent by having someone inside the system publicly explain why an obvious conflict of interest has been satisfactorily resolved by all parties doesn't seem unreasonable. Unlikely perhaps, but not unreasonable.

Pardon my legal ignorance. I'm just pondering what I don't understand & unwilling to accept precedent in criminal courts as a default explanation about why we're all always stuck with "that's just the ways things are." But perhaps I misunderstood your point.

JMO
AT entered a provisional appearance when the case was filed, because the PD has an obligation to protect his interests but he was in PA and she did not have a chance to discuss representation - including but not limited to her qualifications and potential conflicts. That's not something you do over the phone. The day he arrived in ID it appears that she had that conversation, and it appears that he accepted her as her counsel because she stayed on the case and appeared in court with him. Does transparency require that we know what was said in those conversations? Do we need to see his decision in writing? I don't. And I'm sorry, but attorney client privilege still trumps even public cynicism. BK is entitled to confidentiality.

BK retains the full range of choices. He can object to AT's representation at any time. He can ask the Idaho Public Defender to appoint someone else. He can hire counsel of his choice. He can accept volunteer counsel from out of state who get qualified in ID to represent him. He can even represent himself.

If you are interested and not satisfied with all the MSM information indicating AT acted appropriately, plus the court's orders approving her actions, you can request from the court copies of the motion for substitution in the parent's case and all supporting documentation, plus the transcript of any hearing held to address the issue. Same for appointment in the BK case.

<modsnip>
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Based on what we know so far from the affidavit and subsequent search warrant of his apartment, if that information was all LE had on him, to me it wouldn't be enough to convict him. IMO, a strong motive would need to be presented in conjunction with the DNA evidence found in order to convince an entire jury.

Like you, I think he killed because he wanted to kill (I think he wanted to introduce some excitement into his sad life). But I think a jury will want more than that. They will want a stronger motive if there is not a lot of DNA evidence to prove he was there. It's very possible there will be one of more jurors who will introduce doubt into the jury.
Yep. The evidence so far was simply for the PCA, there is FAR FAR more we don't know yet so they won't be trying the case with only the PCA evidence. IMO :)
 
Yep. The evidence so far was simply for the PCA, there is FAR FAR more we don't know yet so they won't be trying the case with only the PCA evidence. IMO :)
Exactly! People keep saying he was stalking one of more of the victims, so he had motive to kill them and that's what I'm arguing here. If the PCA is the source of truth, then we (the public) know nothing about supposed stalking and his motive, unless we are basing that on a few recent stories the media has come out with.
 
AT entered a provisional appearance when the case was filed, because the PD has an obligation to protect his interests but he was in PA and she did not have a chance to discuss representation - including but not limited to her qualifications and potential conflicts. That's not something you do over the phone. The day he arrived in ID it appears that she had that conversation, and it appears that he accepted her as her counsel because she stayed on the case and appeared in court with him. Does transparency require that we know what was said in those conversations? Do we need to see his decision in writing? I don't. And I'm sorry, but attorney client privilege still trumps even public cynicism. BK is entitled to confidentiality.

BK retains the full range of choices. He can object to AT's representation at any time. He can ask the Idaho Public Defender to appoint someone else. He can hire counsel of his choice. He can accept volunteer counsel from out of state who get qualified in ID to represent him. He can even represent himself.

If you are interested and not satisfied with all the MSM information indicating AT acted appropriately, plus the court's orders approving her actions, you can request from the court copies of the motion for substitution in the parent's case and all supporting documentation, plus the transcript of any hearing held to address the issue. Same for appointment in the BK case.

<modsnip>
The Idaho judge declared him indigent at his first appearance and assigned him a public defender.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
121
Guests online
2,471
Total visitors
2,592

Forum statistics

Threads
592,179
Messages
17,964,675
Members
228,715
Latest member
hannahdunnam
Back
Top