ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 70

[ExpectingUnicorns]

Yes, but gender narrows it down only to 50% of the people in the tri-state (WA, OR, ID) area. If she had said and it turned out to be a woman over 5'10", that would be significant; but with a man over that height, we're still in the 50% range.

I don't have data re body build, but I spent 10 years in college as a student and 15 as a teacher. "Athletic body build" would describe 90% of my students and a significant percentage of the faculty.

We're not really narrowing things down now. We're still at a description that could fit about a significant percentage of the people in the area.

I also have no data re eyebrows, but people "on the ground" there have described Moscow as "largely Caucasian". Bushy eyebrows are more common on people of that racial background.

A conservative formula for the 4 factors DM names--as far as our limited info can tell us--might go something like the following:

.5 x .5 x .75 x .25 = .047 of people in the Moscow/Pullman area, the combined population of which is roughly 60,000. (This is very conservative since the much larger cities of Spokane, Coeur d'Alene and even Boise are within driving distance if the killer were really determined.)

60,000 x .047 = 2,820 males. That's a lot of men DM might have seen at 4:20 a.m. on the morning of the murders.

Hardly what anyone could call a "match". Compare, for example, 2,820 men to the number of jilted ex-boyfriends: 1 or 2. (No former boyfriend is considered a POI, nor should they be. But that doesn't insure a defense attorney won't raise them as possible alternatives.)

Of course, if DM testifies, the prosecutor will want a jury to consider DM's description only in association with other evidence.

But the number of people who turned their cell phones off during the murder, say, actually gives us a smaller number of potential suspects than her eyewitness testimony. The same may be said--again, I am speculating--of the number of cars caught on security cameras in the area of the murder house.

I'm not quarreling with those who believe BK is guilty; I think so myself. I'm just trying to offer a rough approximation of how some of the evidence will be treated by the defense.

RBBM, Nova.
I have great admiration for the knowledge and creativity of many of these defense strategies that have been presented here. I'm just praying that no one on the defense team is reading here.
Sometimes I feel like we're floating up a test balloon to check crowd reactions as to acceptance or rejection of various scenarios they might consider using. MOO

 

[Zella]

I'm just praying that no one on the defense team is reading here.

They don't have to read here to come up with these ideas on their own. It's part of their job and is pretty standard. If anything, I think the discussion here is modeled more on what defense attorneys have already done in previous cases. MOO

 

[ktm44]

DM needs a break from what or from whom, exactly?

As near as I can tell, NOBODY is criticizing her. We're merely speculating on ways the defense might try to undercut her testimony, based only on what we know from the PCA.

EVERYONE agrees there are many things we don't know at this point, including what all DM may have said in her interview with investigators. But EVERYONE here at WS seems to take the account of her evidence in the PCA at face value. We agree she said what she believes she saw; but BK's defense will want to counter what she saw in some way.

Speaking for myself alone, none of our speculations proves that DM's memory of events will be dismissed or even successfully challenged.

I'm don't believe that the PCA is comprised of her entire statement nor am I convinced that neither roommate has anything of value to offer LE.

I believe the PCA indicated that the roommate's account is backed by phone records so I wonder if she inadvertently backed up her own statements that night via text messages to her surviving roommate, victims or possibly a running narrative to a friend(s).

 

[Cool Cats]

DM needs a break from what or from whom, exactly?

As near as I can tell, NOBODY is criticizing her. We're merely speculating on ways the defense might try to undercut her testimony, based only on what we know from the PCA.

EVERYONE agrees there are many things we don't know at this point, including what all DM may have said in her interview with investigators. But EVERYONE here at WS seems to take the account of her evidence in the PCA at face value. We agree she said what she believes she saw; but BK's defense will want to counter what she saw in some way.

Speaking for myself alone, none of our speculations proves that DM's memory of events will be dismissed or even successfully challenged.

<modsnip - no link from an approved source>

For those worried about BK's rights to a fair trial, I pointed out that this won't happen because her description of the person she saw was put in writing like all witness statements are. And they are often video recorded too.

I pointed out If she changes her statement at trial the defense and/or the prosecution will have her read her statement on the stand and address any discrepancies in front of the Jury.

I just saw this done in a murder trial. 2 witnesses gave inconsistent statements and the prosecution had one witness read back the statement she gave to police and corrected the other witness.

2 Cents

 

[gliving]

https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/crime/article271694187.html

What do cellphone records say about Bryan Kohberger’s location? Expert explains BY ALEX BRIZEE UPDATED FEBRUARY 02, 2023 9:21 AM

Idaho authorities have alleged that Bryan Kohberger’s cellphone records showed he was in the Moscow area less than an hour after four University of Idaho students were stabbed to death in an off-campus house — and that he visited the “coverage area” of the home 12 times before the homicides. But telecommunications expert and former electrical engineer Ben Levitan, who has analyzed cellphone data for the well-known Adnan Syed case featured in the “Serial” podcast, told the Idaho Statesman that while cellphone records can provide someone’s estimated location, they can’t pinpoint an individual’s exact location.

(snip)
But Levitan said a typical cellphone tower covers an area of 12 square miles. Someone could be miles away from the nearest cell tower, and Moscow is a roughly 3-by-5-mile town. “You cannot pinpoint a person,” Levitan said about cellphone records. “There’s no chance any expert in the world can tell you where that person is located.”

Levitan added that the nearest cell tower to the King Road home covers an area of 27.3 square miles — the same size as nearly 14,000 football fields. Moscow police said Kohberger’s historical phone records were pulled to determine whether Kohberger “stalked any of the victims” before the stabbings. Levitan said if authorities during the court proceedings try to show Kohberger visited the home 12 times, “they will be wrong and could damage their case.”



(much more info at link)

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

They don't have to read here to come up with these ideas on their own. It's part of their job and is pretty standard. If anything, I think the discussion here is modeled more on what defense attorneys have already done in previous cases. MOO

Agree, Zella, but our responses could be as valuable as any mock jury's responses. MOO

 

[Cool Cats]

Agree, Zella, but our responses could be as valuable as any mock jury's responses. MOO

The lead investigator in a murder trial I just watched last fall said he was reading social media.

I have always thought like you, that we are a good cross section of how some jurors might see the Case.

 

[WingsOverTX]

https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/crime/article271694187.html

What do cellphone records say about Bryan Kohberger’s location? Expert explains BY ALEX BRIZEE UPDATED FEBRUARY 02, 2023 9:21 AM

Idaho authorities have alleged that Bryan Kohberger’s cellphone records showed he was in the Moscow area less than an hour after four University of Idaho students were stabbed to death in an off-campus house — and that he visited the “coverage area” of the home 12 times before the homicides. But telecommunications expert and former electrical engineer Ben Levitan, who has analyzed cellphone data for the well-known Adnan Syed case featured in the “Serial” podcast, told the Idaho Statesman that while cellphone records can provide someone’s estimated location, they can’t pinpoint an individual’s exact location.

(snip)
But Levitan said a typical cellphone tower covers an area of 12 square miles. Someone could be miles away from the nearest cell tower, and Moscow is a roughly 3-by-5-mile town. “You cannot pinpoint a person,” Levitan said about cellphone records. “There’s no chance any expert in the world can tell you where that person is located.”

Levitan added that the nearest cell tower to the King Road home covers an area of 27.3 square miles — the same size as nearly 14,000 football fields. Moscow police said Kohberger’s historical phone records were pulled to determine whether Kohberger “stalked any of the victims” before the stabbings. Levitan said if authorities during the court proceedings try to show Kohberger visited the home 12 times, “they will be wrong and could damage their case.”

View attachment 399627

(much more info at link)

I think the Statesman should gather more opinions from more "experts" because I don't believe his conclusions are accurate.

Plus if LE has video evidence of BK's car near the home for those 12 pings then it's even better evidence.

Just my novice opinion

 

[RonSwanson33]

https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/crime/article271694187.html

What do cellphone records say about Bryan Kohberger’s location? Expert explains BY ALEX BRIZEE UPDATED FEBRUARY 02, 2023 9:21 AM

Idaho authorities have alleged that Bryan Kohberger’s cellphone records showed he was in the Moscow area less than an hour after four University of Idaho students were stabbed to death in an off-campus house — and that he visited the “coverage area” of the home 12 times before the homicides. But telecommunications expert and former electrical engineer Ben Levitan, who has analyzed cellphone data for the well-known Adnan Syed case featured in the “Serial” podcast, told the Idaho Statesman that while cellphone records can provide someone’s estimated location, they can’t pinpoint an individual’s exact location.

(snip)
But Levitan said a typical cellphone tower covers an area of 12 square miles. Someone could be miles away from the nearest cell tower, and Moscow is a roughly 3-by-5-mile town. “You cannot pinpoint a person,” Levitan said about cellphone records. “There’s no chance any expert in the world can tell you where that person is located.”

Levitan added that the nearest cell tower to the King Road home covers an area of 27.3 square miles — the same size as nearly 14,000 football fields. Moscow police said Kohberger’s historical phone records were pulled to determine whether Kohberger “stalked any of the victims” before the stabbings. Levitan said if authorities during the court proceedings try to show Kohberger visited the home 12 times, “they will be wrong and could damage their case.”

View attachment 399627

(much more info at link)

Again. There is WAY more info they have than just the cell towers, that we haven't seen. they aren't basing everything off of them, there are 3000 more pages of discovery we haven't seen and there are 4 towers, not 2. They have his phone and that provides accurate GPS especially for map apps etc. IMO.

 

[RonSwanson33]

Agree, Zella, but our responses could be as valuable as any mock jury's responses. MOO

A mock jury would have all the info that we do not IMO.

 

[WingsOverTX]

Again. There is WAY more info they have than just the cell towers, that we haven't seen. they aren't basing everything off of them, there are 3000 more pages of discovery we haven't seen and there are 4 towers, not 2. They have his phone and that provides accurate GPS especially for map apps etc. IMO.

True enough.

I am curious why the so-called expert doesn't discuss triangulation in his analysis. Too few towers for that possibility?

I don't like "hit piece" stories or headlines, which I think this is.

I'm not worried about the evidence, either. His defense attorneys have their hands full overcoming totality of evidence to create reasonable doubt.

JMO

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

The lead investigator in a murder trial I just watched last fall said he was reading social media.

I have always thought like you, that we are a good cross section of how some jurors might see the Case.

Thank you, Cool Cats! They certainly did in the Casey Anthony case, too:

"It is estimated that there were over 40,000 online posts regarding the Anthony trial. Orlando’s WFTV blog alone was receiving more comments than the moderators could go through, receiving over 5 comments per second from viewers at one point. This was the first case where social media mining, farming and analytics were pro-actively used. When social media was in its infancy, private investigators began using Social Media Mining as part of their strategy; this however was being used in a very passive manner. This year in the Anthony trial, Trial Consultants, Inc. was able to incorporate Social Media Farming by taking information that was publicly shared by potential jurors and avid viewers in a more pro-active manner, using that information to make suggestions to the defense team. For example, as soon as we started seeing a pattern of negative comments about George Anthony, we advised the defense attorneys to start asking him tough questions, thereby focusing the negative attention on him while diverting it from Casey Anthony. Finally, we were able to then look at the trends within the blog comments and analyze the results which led to a successful defense tactic."

Trial Strategy Using Social Media Analytics: Not Just for High Publicity Cases!

How was the Casey Anthony trial strategy informed by social media analysis? Comparing old and new approaches to trial strategy.

www.thejuryexpert.com

 

[Cool Cats]

https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/crime/article271694187.html

What do cellphone records say about Bryan Kohberger’s location? Expert explains BY ALEX BRIZEE UPDATED FEBRUARY 02, 2023 9:21 AM

Idaho authorities have alleged that Bryan Kohberger’s cellphone records showed he was in the Moscow area less than an hour after four University of Idaho students were stabbed to death in an off-campus house — and that he visited the “coverage area” of the home 12 times before the homicides. But telecommunications expert and former electrical engineer Ben Levitan, who has analyzed cellphone data for the well-known Adnan Syed case featured in the “Serial” podcast, told the Idaho Statesman that while cellphone records can provide someone’s estimated location, they can’t pinpoint an individual’s exact location.

(snip)
But Levitan said a typical cellphone tower covers an area of 12 square miles. Someone could be miles away from the nearest cell tower, and Moscow is a roughly 3-by-5-mile town. “You cannot pinpoint a person,” Levitan said about cellphone records. “There’s no chance any expert in the world can tell you where that person is located.”

Levitan added that the nearest cell tower to the King Road home covers an area of 27.3 square miles — the same size as nearly 14,000 football fields. Moscow police said Kohberger’s historical phone records were pulled to determine whether Kohberger “stalked any of the victims” before the stabbings. Levitan said if authorities during the court proceedings try to show Kohberger visited the home 12 times, “they will be wrong and could damage their case.”

View attachment 399627

(much more info at link)

This "expert" hasn't seen these records so he doesn't have all the information such as GPS and texts and phone calls and Wifi pings.

I posted an article where an "expert" says the DNA doesn't prove BK was at the crime scene but admits it is BK's DNA.

If his DNA was on the door knob for example, the defense could say he visited at an earlier date and that there was other people's DNA, if there was.

But being on the knife sheath makes it very difficult for the defense to explain that BK wasn't there that night.

What can they say? Not much. What I am sure they will do because I have seen it done before, is file a Motion to try and get the DNA thrown out before trial.

If that doesn't work they will put on experts to say why Touch DNA is unreliable, etc...

Try to get a juror to have doubt.

2 Cents

 

[gliving]

I think the Statesman should gather more opinions from more "experts" because I don't believe his conclusions are accurate.

Plus if LE has video evidence of BK's car near the home for those 12 pings then it's even better evidence.

Just my novice opinion

He has a pretty impressive resume:

https://www.jurispro.com/expert/ben-levitan-3006/cv

 

[SRWCF]

He has a pretty impressive resume:

https://www.jurispro.com/expert/ben-levitan-3006/cv

I think that's an understatement. WOW! I'd say he's more than qualified to speak on this subject!

 

[Cool Cats]

He has a pretty impressive resume:

https://www.jurispro.com/expert/ben-levitan-3006/cv

Has this "expert" seen the phone records for himself? No.

Phone records have GPS, phone calls made and received, texts, Wifi pings, etc..

BK's phone likely pinged on WiFi's and could have pinged on the victims' Wifi but the "expert" wouldn't know without looking at the actual phone records.

 

[maskedwoman]

<modsnip>

For those worried about BK's rights to a fair trial, I pointed out that this won't happen because her description of the person she saw was put in writing like all witness statements are. And they are often video recorded too.

I pointed out If she changes her statement at trial the defense and/or the prosecution will have her read her statement on the stand and address any discrepancies in front of the Jury.

I just saw this done in a murder trial. 2 witnesses gave inconsistent statements and the prosecution had one witness read back the statement she gave to police and corrected the other witness.

2 Cents

Please correct me if I've missed something but, isn't the PCA the only account we have of her statement? Thanks!

 

[Moriarty]

I am curious why the so-called expert doesn't discuss triangulation in his analysis. Too few towers for that possibility?

That's a very good question! If there are four cell towers within such a small area, then you're right, triangulation is definitely doable. And as Cool Cats says, there are also possible GPS and WiFi pings, etc.

I'm interested in knowing if cell carriers, like AT&T in this case, track and record when a customer's phone is on or off over time. What I mean is, we know BK's phone was off or not sending a signal between 2:47 am and 4:48 am the morning of the murders. If AT&T have records going back for days/weeks/months showing BK never turned his phone off, then suddenly there is this two hour window when it's off, two hours during which the murders occurred, that would be interesting.

And again, in and of itself, this doesn't mean a whole lot, but as you say WingsOverTX, it's the totality of circumstantial evidence that starts becoming too much to ignore: 12 pings in the area in the time before the murders + sightings of the white Elantra + trace DNA on a knife sheath in the house + suspect's phone going dark during the crimes + x + y + z...it all becomes quite a lot.

 

[iamshadow21]

Please correct me if I've missed something but, isn't the PCA the only account we have of her statement? Thanks!

As far as I know, that's correct.

 

[Cool Cats]

Please correct me if I've missed something but, isn't the PCA the only account we have of her statement? Thanks!

Yup.

Which means she may have given an even more detailed description to LE that matches more features of BK.

LE never puts everything in a PCA, just enough to get the judge to sign off.

But it is possible that the description the witness gave in the PCA is all she said but I doubt it.

Did she see his eyes? She saw his eyebrows so why not his eyes? What about his hair?

We just don't know if she mentioned any of this for example.

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