ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 70

[Gemmie]

She described the figure as 5’10” or taller, male, not very muscular, but athletically built with bushy eyebrows,

Is it concerning that there's no mention of race, ethnicity, age etc.? Could be describing a 40 yo Hispanic male. idk moo

To me her saying "athletically built" seems like whatever he was wearing was more form fitting than loose fitted clothes. I don't think she'd have been able to determine that if she couldn't actually see his body (though his clothes). You can hide a lot under loose clothing so I think whatever it was wasn't roomy or loose.

All MOO

 

[Boxer]

I agree that a distinguishing physical marker like a mole, scar or tatoo would be an important detail, but the height of 5 ft 10 in is just above the average male height in the U.S. of 5 ft 9 in. Also bushy eyebrows strikes me as very general and even subjective. I don't think we can call DM an eyewitness to anything other than a person dressed in black, we don't even know, really, if she could say it was a male or a female. As far as we know from the PCA, at least.

She was specific.
Male on taller side, bushy eyebrows and not muscular but athletic build.
So far a great description.
No one knew at the time whether man, women, race, height, build etc.

 

[Gemmie]

It might have been that Kaylee was in her bedroom playing with the dog, then heard something and went to Maddie's room to investigate.
There she was murdered and put by BK on the bed with Maddie.

But, on the other hand, wouldn't she shout?

JMO

BBMFF

I really don't think BK put Kaylee on the bed because that would have been staged. My 2 reasons...

1) it wasn't mentioned in the affidavit that anything looked staged, and

2) the affidavit specifically states "two females IN the single bed". It doesn't say she was "on" the bed. And most people sleep "in" bed during the winter (likely year-round unless no AC and it's super hot), not "on" the bed.


That leads me to believe they were sleeping in bed together.

As for sounds like Kaylee was playing with the dog... IMO I feel like the dog heard something and sensed something was not right (like animals can do). I think Murphy was likely running or jumping around wanting to get out of the room. Something set the dog off (his owner being killed or about to be killed). All MOO

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/122922%20Affidavit%20-%20Exhibit%20A%20-%20Statement%20of%20Brett%20Payne.pdf

 

[Cool Cats]

I agree that a distinguishing physical marker like a mole, scar or tatoo would be an important detail, but the height of 5 ft 10 in is just above the average male height in the U.S. of 5 ft 9 in. Also bushy eyebrows strikes me as very general and even subjective. I don't think we can call DM an eyewitness to anything other than a person dressed in black, we don't even know, really, if she could say it was a male or a female. As far as we know from the PCA, at least.

DM is considered an eyewitness because she saw an actual person, a stranger, leaving the house right after 4 murders took place. Was that stranger the murderer? Was it BK? Doesn't matter, she still saw this person herself making her an eyewitness.

Any person who discovers a crime scene AFTER THE FACT is considered a witness but not an eyewitness.

 

[SRWCF]

She was specific.
Male on taller side, bushy eyebrows and not muscular but athletic build.
So far a great description.
No one knew at the time whether man, women, race, height, build etc.

I also think her description was specific. I'll even go so far as to say it was excellent, especially describing him as not muscular, but with an athletic build. That perfectly describes a runner's lean, athletic body and BCK is a runner.

Also, she almost nailed his height. She was off by a couple of inches, but maybe that's because she saw him from afar (he was walking towards her). I think she is a fairly tall woman herself. It was an educated guess.

And where would the investigation be without her eyewitness account. Would we all still be analyzing every single white Hyundai Elantra years 2011-2014 (not knowing the year was wrong)???

 

[iamshadow21]

I also think her description was specific. I'll even go so far as to say it was excellent, especially describing him as not muscular, but with an athletic build. That perfectly describes a runner's lean, athletic body and BCK is a runner.

Also, she almost nailed his height. She was off by a couple of inches, but maybe that's because she saw him from afar (he was walking towards her). I think she is a fairly tall woman herself. It was an educated guess.

He was walking towards her AND going up a short set of steps, if we have the flow of movement correct. Xana's room and the living room is a few steps lower than D's room and the kitchen, correct? If he was a step or two down, she would have been seeing him as 'shorter' for part of that pass-by than he actually is.

(Hi, BTW. I've been reading, from the beginning of thread one, desperately, since about December 20th. I caught up yesterday. You folks type FAST. )

 

[Cool Cats]

She was specific.
Male on taller side, bushy eyebrows and not muscular but athletic build.
So far a great description.
No one knew at the time whether man, women, race, height, build etc.

And we might not be getting all the details. She has now had time to see photos of BK. I think a stronger account will come out from her when she takes the stand as an eyewitness - a witness who actually saw a person in the house at the time of the murders.

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

I consider DM's description of the unknown person important. Not because it describes BK in detail but, importantly that it does not exclude him. MOO

 

[Cool Cats]

I consider DM's description of the unknown person important. Not because it describes BK in detail but, importantly that it does not exclude him. MOO

Perfect.

Her description does not exclude him.

She is not saying a female or someone heavy set or someone short or someone with thin eyebrows, etc...

All of which do not fit BK.

What does fit him is her description. The car caught on camera that morning fits the description of his car. Strong evidence put together.

On top of that is proof he knew 2 of the victims through social media, he can't say he didn't know who they were. Add in the 12 cell tower phone pings from the King Rd cell tower, pinging at suspicious hours - late night early morning. Then trace DNA.

 

[kittythehare]

Perfect.

Her description does not exclude him.

She is not saying a female or someone heavy set or someone short or someone with thin eyebrows, etc...

All of which do not fit BK.

What does fit him is her description. The car caught on camera that morning fits the description of his car. Strong evidence put together.

On top of that is proof he knew 2 of the victims through social media, he can't say he didn't know who they were. Add in the 12 cell tower phone pings from the King Rd cell tower, pinging at suspicious hours - late night early morning. Then trace DNA.

I wonder at what more she told.

Was he rushing?
Was he breathless?
Did he make eye contact with her?
What did she see or perceive in him that caused her to freeze?

I often think about this young girl and my heart goes out to her.
I don't know if I personally could ever integrate what she has gone through.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

My point is that it is the details adding up - not about the eyebrows by themselves.

Not everything is in a PCA but expect that witness to give her description on the stand.
Then the jury will decide how much weight to give to the details that the witness saw.
Maybe she saw his eyes, she may have seen more than we know. She has had time to see photos of BK now.

Eyewitness testimony placing a guy right at the crime scene who just happens to match BK enough to where it could have been him. This adds to all the other information like a CAR exactly matching his was there at the crime scene and the knife sheath HE TOUCHED was there.

All the details adding up is my point. Anything an eyewitness sees is important evidence. Could be a mole on a suspect's face or a scar or a tattoo, details ADDING UP help convict people.

Sometimes it doesn't take much evidence....

A person can get arrested for murder from biting a piece of cheese then throwing it in the trash.

I don't necessarily disagree. I was responding specifically to the line that bushy eyebrows makes the case. I think that's the weakest part of the PCA. MOO.

 

[Twistinginthewind]

Does anyone think that a family member may have suspected BK involvement early on and contacted the FBI with their concerns?

I think it's a possibility that one of the victim's family members thought there might be a connection with BK and their child based on things their child mentioned to them, but there is nothing reported to the public on this by LE, so all MOO. And it may not have been specific to BK but maybe "someone" stalking in person or electronically, or "lurking" electronically in an online community they were both involved with to some degree (not Instagram). JMOO

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

She was specific.
Male on taller side, bushy eyebrows and not muscular but athletic build.
So far a great description.
No one knew at the time whether man, women, race, height, build etc.

See, I don't think that's specific at all. I think it could describe a ton of people. Yes, I realize it's combined with everything else, but I am talking solely about the description, nothing else. I don't feel the description is specific. In a college town, it probably describes half the male student body. MOO.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

I also think her description was specific. I'll even go so far as to say it was excellent, especially describing him as not muscular, but with an athletic build. That perfectly describes a runner's lean, athletic body and BCK is a runner.

Also, she almost nailed his height. She was off by a couple of inches, but maybe that's because she saw him from afar (he was walking towards her). I think she is a fairly tall woman herself. It was an educated guess.

And where would the investigation be without her eyewitness account. Would we all still be analyzing every single white Hyundai Elantra years 2011-2014 (not knowing the year was wrong)???

Honestly, I don't think her description is what tipped them off to BK at all. I think it was just an extra thing. MOO

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

On top of that is proof he knew 2 of the victims through social media, he can't say he didn't know who they were.

Snipped by me. Has that been confirmed? Last I heard, it was just the People article, but no confirmation from any reliable source?

 

[Cool Cats]

See, I don't think that's specific at all. I think it could describe a ton of people. Yes, I realize it's combined with everything else, but I am talking solely about the description, nothing else. I don't feel the description is specific. In a college town, it probably describes half the male student body. MOO.

It's an important description because it doesn't rule BK out. This description fits him. If she saw a female or a short person or super tall person or a heavy set person or a person with thin eyebrows, etc....It would rule him out and his defense team would run with it, saying it couldn't have been him.

It actually could have been him.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

It's an important description because it doesn't rule BK out. This description fits him. If she saw a female or a short person or super tall person or a heavy set person or a person with thin eyebrows, etc....It would rule him out.

Again, true, but I didn't say it ruled him out. I just said it wasn't specific.

 

[gliving]

DM's description doesn't tell me much, but it leads me to believe she did not recognize the intruder. That's the important part, moo.

 

[Bogbacal2]

Is it possible that the road trip BK took with his father was planned so BK could dispose of the knife and/or clothes somewhere along the route?

 

[Cool Cats]

Is it possible that the road trip BK took with his father was planned so BK could dispose of the knife and/or clothes somewhere along the route?

Hummm....You might find this interesting:

Idaho murders - update: Bryan Kohberger went ‘missing’ for several hours on drive to Pennsylvania

Idaho murders - update: Bryan Kohberger went ‘missing’ for several hours on drive to Pennsylvania

Air Mail’s “The Eyes of a Killer” reveals that Bryan Kohberger slipped past surveillance teams during the Idaho student murders investigation

news.yahoo.com

I think after the murders he drove into the "boonies" and disposed of the knife and his clothes and mask and gloves he likely wore etc....

There is a 5 hour time frame from the murders until the car matching BK's car comes back to the house at 9:00am. What was he still doing out? I think driving far away getting rid of murder evidence. I don't think he would bring incriminating evidence back to the crime scene area.