ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 70

[BeginnerSleuther]

DM is a victim, and what she told LE is not in question, and LE agreed her description matched BK.

LE had 6 weeks or so to delve into what DM, as the only eyewitness to an unknown person being in their home at the time of the murders, said she saw, and included what relevant details she gave them in the PCA (between the day of the murders (11-13-2022) and when LE wrote the PCA (presumably in late December prior to submitting it on 12-30-2022). MOO!

BBM from the PCA:

"D.M. said she opened her door for the third time after she heard the crying and saw a figure clad in black clothing and a mask that covered the person's mouth and nose walking towards her. D.M. described the figure as 5' I0" or taller, male, not very muscular, but athletically built with bushy eyebrows. The male walked past D.M. as she stood in a "frozen shock phase." The male walked towards the back sliding glass door. D.M. locked herself in her room after seeing the male. D.M. did not state that she recognized the male. This leads investigators to believe that the murderer left the scene."

LE also interpreted BK's appearance as "fitting" DM's description of the person she saw, per the PCA:

"Officer Whitman also ran the car and it retumed to Kohberger with a Washington tag. I reviewed Kohberg's WA state driver license information and photograph. This license indicates that Kohberger is a white male with a height of 6' and weighs 185 pounds. Additionally, the photograph of Kohberger shows that he has bushy eyebrows. Kohberger's physical description is consistent with the description of the male D.M. saw inside the King Road Residence on November 13th."

Read Bryan Kohberger affidavit: Details on police evidence in Idaho murders

BBM. I don't think anyone is saying it's in question. We're just wondering how specific and strong it is, that's all.

 

[gliving]

Why would he say he was going to help? Was he talking to XK?

Could DM further identify him just by his voice?

<moo>

Yes, this part haunts me. I seriously skipped over it a few times because it was too much. He's going to help whoever he's murdering? Is that right?

"A short time later, D.M. said she heard who she thought was Goncalves say something to the effect of "there’s someone here." A review of records obtained from a forensic download of Kernodle's phone showed this could also have been Kernodle as her cellular phone indicated she was likely awake and using the TikTok app at approximately 4:12 a.m.

D.M. stated she looked out of her bedroom but did not see anything when she heard the comment about someone being in the house. D.M. stated she opened her door a second time when she heard what she thought was crying coming from Kernodle's room. D.M. then said she heard a male voice say something to the effect of "it's ok, I'm going to help you."

At approximately 4:17 a.m., a security camera located at I 112 King Road, a residence immediately to the northwest of 1122 King Road, picked up distorted audio of what sounded like voices or a whimper followed by a loud thud. A dog can also be heard barking numerous times starting at 4:17 a.m. The security camera is less than fifty feet from the west wall of Kernodle's bedroom."

Read the affidavit on how investigators identified the Idaho killings suspect | CNN (page 4)

 

[CSIDreamer]

My timeline may be off then. I thought the gag order was expanded after People did the story on Mad Greek? But I've lost track now.

Maybe? Now I'm not sure. JMO

 

[Twistinginthewind]

Yes, this part haunts me. I seriously skipped over it a few times because it was too much. He's going to help whoever he's murdering? Is that right?

"A short time later, D.M. said she heard who she thought was Goncalves say something to the effect of "there’s someone here." A review of records obtained from a forensic download of Kernodle's phone showed this could also have been Kernodle as her cellular phone indicated she was likely awake and using the TikTok app at approximately 4:12 a.m.

D.M. stated she looked out of her bedroom but did not see anything when she heard the comment about someone being in the house. D.M. stated she opened her door a second time when she heard what she thought was crying coming from Kernodle's room. D.M. then said she heard a male voice say something to the effect of "it's ok, I'm going to help you."

At approximately 4:17 a.m., a security camera located at I 112 King Road, a residence immediately to the northwest of 1122 King Road, picked up distorted audio of what sounded like voices or a whimper followed by a loud thud. A dog can also be heard barking numerous times starting at 4:17 a.m. The security camera is less than fifty feet from the west wall of Kernodle's bedroom."

Read the affidavit on how investigators identified the Idaho killings suspect | CNN (page 4)

Whose "male voice" it was has not been identified by LE, so it is speculation whether it could have been the killer (BK the accused) speaking to one or more of the victims, or it could have been Ethan speaking to one or more of the victims, since they were the 2 males known to be present. MOO

 

[Gemmie]

Yes, this part haunts me. I seriously skipped over it a few times because it was too much. He's going to help whoever he's murdering? Is that right?

D.M. then said she heard a male voice say something to the effect of "it's ok, I'm going to help you."NN (page 4)

SBMFF

I keep coming back to this because I've never been able to make any sense out of it. Until now (sort of). I think the key is where she said it sounded like "something to the effect of". I think people's minds don't go to the dark place first. A prime example for those following the Delphi murder case is when a witness observed RA walking along the road looking bloody and muddy her first thought was "he was in a fight" (a nicer place for her mind to go than "He looks like he just murdered someone").

I feel it's the same thing here. Her mind went to a nicer place and came up with "it's ok, I'm going to help you.". I think whatever was said obviously sounded like that, but to me, more than likely wasn't that. But if not that, what was actually said? What sounds similar that (likely) BK said?

ETA - I just don't feel like it was Ethan that said it. IMO I don't think Ethan had the time to say something like that to soothe Xana. I can't imagine BK stabbing Xana and then there's this pause in his stabbing while Ethan says "it's OK. I'm going to help you". I think it was over for them both with the quickness. That points me to the only other male in the house, BK.

 

[Twistinginthewind]

<snipped for focus>
I don't think we can call DM an eyewitness to anything other than a person dressed in black, we don't even know, really, if she could say it was a male or a female. As far as we know from the PCA, at least.

DM did say it was a "male" she saw as quoted in the PCA.

BBM from the PCA:

"D.M. said she opened her door for the third time after she heard the crying and saw a figure clad in black clothing and a mask that covered the person's mouth and nose walking towards her. D.M. described the figure as 5' I0" or taller, male, not very muscular, but athletically built with bushy eyebrows. The male walked past D.M. as she stood in a "frozen shock phase." The male walked towards the back sliding glass door. D.M. locked herself in her room after seeing the male. D.M. did not state that she recognized the male. This leads investigators to believe that the murderer left the scene."

LE also interpreted BK's appearance as "fitting" DM's description of the person she saw, per the PCA:

"Officer Whitman also ran the car and it retumed to Kohberger with a Washington tag. I reviewed Kohberg's WA state driver license information and photograph. This license indicates that Kohberger is a white male with a height of 6' and weighs 185 pounds. Additionally, the photograph of Kohberger shows that he has bushy eyebrows. Kohberger's physical description is consistent with the description of the male D.M. saw inside the King Road Residence on November 13th."

Read Bryan Kohberger affidavit: Details on police evidence in Idaho murders

 

[seastorm]

SBMFF

I keep coming back to this because I've never been able to make any sense out of it. Until now (sort of). I think the key is where she said it sounded like "something to the effect of". I think people's minds don't go to the dark place first. A prime example for those following the Delphi murder case is when a witness observed RA walking along the road looking bloody and muddy her first thought was "he was in a fight" (a nicer place for her mind to go then "He looks like he just murdered someone").

I feel it's the same thing here. Her mind went to a nicer place and came up with "it's ok, I'm going to help you.". I think whatever was said obviously sounded like that, but to me, more than likely wasn't that. But if not that, what was actually said? What sounds similar that (likely) BK said?

Oh wow… “No one’s left to help you” probably sounds a lot like that…

 

[Zella]

Oh wow… “No one’s left to help you” probably sounds a lot like that…

I've also seen "It's okay--I'm not going to hurt you" suggested as what he may have said.

 

[iamshadow21]

Oh wow… “No one’s left to help you” probably sounds a lot like that…

The only words I have for how that much made my heart sink are four letter ones.

Those poor kids.

That might not be what he said, but if it was...

I feel physically sick.

 

[Gemmie]

I've also seen "It's okay--I'm not going to hurt you" suggested as what he may have said.

I don't know where you heard that but I'm going by what the affidavit said which was "I'm going to help you".

 

[jepop]

At the end of the day, if she's called as a witness, yes, the defense will go after her hard concerning her credibility, but a lot of the information she's providing is corroborated by other sources. I think that gives her more influence as a witness than if she was the only source of the information.

Her testimony of when she woke up, what she heard, and when she saw someone in the house matches up with video surveillance of BK arriving and leaving, the account of the Door Dash driver, victim phone data, and estimated times of death. There's likely more LE has extrapolated about the sequence of events of the murders that meshes even more with what she heard.

Her description of the person she saw in the house, for all the hand-wringing that is being done over it, is essentially accurate. She described a man on the taller side of average with distinctive eyebrows and a build that was not bulky nor skinny nor average but athletic. That's not an exclusive description to BK, but it still matches him and other evidence indicates he was there that night, from video footage of his car to his own cell phone. I'd even go so far to say that people who have better conditions for being a witness (more lighting, a longer look at an assailant) often aren't able to provide that accurate or specific of information to describe someone. It's honestly one of the better descriptions of a suspect I've seen from a witness, especially one who's not a professional who's trained in noticing those things.

On her own as a witness, she's not a slam dunk, and her performance on the witness stand will be critical to how the jury responds to her. But in combination with the other evidence, I suspect she will be quite persuasive, even with the defense attorneys trying their best to discredit her. MOO

That sounds so reasonable and I agree that her description is really good and I have no doubt, personally, regarding its accuarcy. I'm just recalling discussion on other threads by legally minded people who suggested given how good the other circumstantial evidence is/will likely be, the prosecution might not risk putting her on the stand in-case the defense succeeds in persuading a jury that she wasn't in a position to provide even that level of detail. If that happenned the prosecution is still very strong, but why risk putting the witness roommate through it. I'm in no position to really speculate one way or another, but I did see the logic of that argument. But I see how it could go the other way too.

Also, and perhaps you can speak to this?, there are some who have suggested that the defense will attempt to 'tear her down' (paraphrase) or 'grill' her on why she didn't call the police earlier and so forth. My opinion was that a judge would not allow that line of questioning (to what purpose?), however as I am not a defense attorney or a prosecutor, I really felt uneasy about that possibility. But I'm not sure how possible that scenario might be.

The other question I had about both roomates was would they be called to testify as to events in the morning so as to corroborate no contamination of say the two crime scenes (bedrooms/hallways) or does the prosecution do that through forensic witnesses alone? I would have thought roomate testimony unnecessary, but that's just a guess. MOO

 

[Arkay]

Why would he say he was going to help? Was he talking to XK?

Could DM further identify him just by his voice?

<moo>

It's not unheard of for killers to say something reassuring to a victim to throw them off their guard and quiet them down. Even if the victim doesn't believe them, it can give the attacker an extra second or two of them not reacting, out of confusion. MOO

SBMFF

I keep coming back to this because I've never been able to make any sense out of it. Until now (sort of). I think the key is where she said it sounded like "something to the effect of". I think people's minds don't go to the dark place first. A prime example for those following the Delphi murder case is when a witness observed RA walking along the road looking bloody and muddy her first thought was "he was in a fight" (a nicer place for her mind to go then "He looks like he just murdered someone").

I feel it's the same thing here. Her mind went to a nicer place and came up with "it's ok, I'm going to help you.". I think whatever was said obviously sounded like that, but to me, more than likely wasn't that. But if not that, what was actually said? What sounds similar that (likely) BK said?

ETA - I just don't feel like it was Ethan that said it. IMO I don't think Ethan had the time to say something like that to soothe Xana. I can't imagine BK stabbing Xana and then there's this pause in his stabbing while Ethan says "it's OK. I'm going to help you". I think it was over for them both with the quickness. That points me to the only other male in the house, BK.

I agree here with @Zella.

To me, it sounds just like what a cold-blooded, merciless killer might say to a victim. Maybe she was fighting back and it's something he said to "soothe" her so she wouldn't continue to resist.

Not that anything on earth could equate to the scale of what the Nazis did, but they did tell many of the Jewish victims that they were going to take a shower, so they'd be more compliant when they were led into the gas chambers.

That sort of thing---"it's okay, I going to help you," so the victims think their only chance to survive is to "trust" the killer.

Jmo, and also JMO that if Ethan were trying to protect Xana, there'd be no time for comforting words. I think as her boyfriend he would've gone right into action mode if he'd had the chance.

Or, maybe BK just amused himself by dangling this "encouragement" to his victims, as part of his evil bag of tricks.

Moo

 

[Zella]

I don't know where you heard that but I'm going by what the affidavit said which was "I'm going to help you".

View attachment 399151

I don't think you understand what I'm saying. I've read the PCA. I know what's in it. You originally suggested that perhaps DM had misheard what he said and her brain had interpreted it in a way that made sense to her at the time--without understanding she was overhearing someone murdering her roommates. So, another poster was speculating what exactly she could have heard that would have sounded similar that may make a little more sense within the context of the situation that we now know was happening--her roommates were being murdered in the next room and above her. I merely added to the conversation with a suggestion of my own that other people have speculated may have been what she heard. I didn't anywhere indicate that what I wrote was stated as official fact or that I even necessarily believed what I typed was what she heard. It was just a suggestion, and I was only responding to a theory that you first advanced and trying to answer your own question. MOO

 

[jepop]

she could be asked point blank if the person she saw was BK and if she says "yes" and "yes he is in the court room here today; the defendant" that would be damning IMO.

She could I guess. The PCA says that DM "..did not state that she recognised person" (p4). If there is more it would be in a detailed witness statement that DM most likely would have made to LE shortly after the crime MOO.

 

[Zella]

the defense will attempt to 'tear her down' (paraphrase) or 'grill' her on why she didn't call the police earlier and so forth. My opinion was that a judge would not allow that line of questioning (to what purpose?), however as I am not a defense attorney or a prosecutor, I really felt uneasy about that possibility. But I'm not sure how possible that scenario might be.

The thing is, BK has a legal right to confront his accusers, and if she is a witness, the defense will be allowed to cross-examine her and they are allowed to try to call her credibility into question. Cross-examinations can get extremely ugly and emotional. No judge stepped in to stop the incredibly gross cross-examinations in Harvey Weinstein's most recent rape trials. That can backfire because it can be distasteful to the jury. But if they want to characterize her as impaired that night (perhaps under the influence) or too traumatized to be reliable or even willfully lying, they can and they will. I have no doubt that they will go after the delay in calling 911, and I have no doubt that the prosecution is going to try to anticipate what direction the defense will go with that and account for it in their own presentation of the case. MOO

 

[want2solveit]

I assume he was stalking at least two of the girls. If he followed them home late at night/early morning, when every one else was asleep. He could see, maybe when their lights went on, where their room was? I think Forensics may have found his semen on the bodies; not like a rape, but as if he'd stood over their dead bodies and masturbated. moo, moo. That's just a scenario I pictured, based on no facts, yet.

I think the murders were like a Master's thesis to him, and he worked on the planning just as carefully. I was very surprised at the number and severity of his mistakes.

 

[Twistinginthewind]

BBM. I don't think anyone is saying it's in question. We're just wondering how specific and strong it is, that's all.

The PCA was this "specific" in terms of DM's description of the person she saw.

As far as how "strong" her description was, it was strong enough for LE to follow up as described in the PCA below, IMO.

BBM from the PCA:

"D.M. said she opened her door for the third time after she heard the crying and saw a figure clad in black clothing and a mask that covered the person's mouth and nose walking towards her. D.M. described the figure as 5' I0" or taller, male, not very muscular, but athletically built with bushy eyebrows. The male walked past D.M. as she stood in a "frozen shock phase." The male walked towards the back sliding glass door. D.M. locked herself in her room after seeing the male. D.M. did not state that she recognized the male. This leads investigators to believe that the murderer left the scene."

LE also interpreted BK's appearance as "fitting" DM's description of the person she saw, per the PCA:

"Officer Whitman also ran the car and it retumed to Kohberger with a Washington tag. I reviewed Kohberg's WA state driver license information and photograph. This license indicates that Kohberger is a white male with a height of 6' and weighs 185 pounds. Additionally, the photograph of Kohberger shows that he has bushy eyebrows. Kohberger's physical description is consistent with the description of the male D.M. saw inside the King Road Residence on November 13th."

Read Bryan Kohberger affidavit: Details on police evidence in Idaho murders

 

[jepop]

It’d have the opposite effect on me. I’d think she was a liar. (Based on what’s in the PCA.)

However, I’d respect someone who just said what she saw, height, build, eyebrows, and didn’t try to invent an identification.

MOO

The possibility of her saying that, if she is called, are pretty slim to non existent IMO. If she had or stated to LE, since her initial statement to LE on or around 13th Nov (interveiwed by police per PCA, p4), that she recognised that the person she saw was BK, then to my mind the prosecution could not prove that or convince a jury. The defense would discredit such a statement quite easily. IMO.MOO
That being said, her basic description in the PCA strongly suggests IMO, that she would not have seen enough to ID that person as BK almost 2 months later. I can't see that happenning. MOO

 

[jepop]

The thing is, BK has a legal right to confront his accusers, and if she is a witness, the defense will be allowed to cross-examine her and they are allowed to try to call her credibility into question. Cross-examinations can get extremely ugly and emotional. No judge stepped in to stop the incredibly gross cross-examinations in Harvey Weinstein's most recent rape trials. That can backfire because it can be distasteful to the jury. But if they want to characterize her as impaired that night (perhaps under the influence) or too traumatized to be reliable or even willfully lying, they can and they will. I have no doubt that they will go after the delay in calling 911, and I have no doubt that the prosecution is going to try to anticipate what direction the defense will go with that and account for it in their own presentation of the case. MOO

Ok, thanks for that info. I guess the prosecution will decide and weigh up the factors as to calling her. I also understood from previous threads that the Defense may call her, even if the prosecution don't, for the purposoes of discrediting not only her statements but also her character as far as they are able to get away with it. So in that case, it's preferable for the prosecution to have her as a witness to counter that expectation. MOO

 

[Zella]

So in that case, it's preferable for the prosecution to have her as a witness to counter that expectation. MOO

Yeah I doubt she is looking forward to testifying--and I don't blame her. It's traumatizing for a lot of people and not at all a fun experience, even if you're on the "winning" side. But I'd say she would much, much, much rather be called as a prosecution witness rather than for the defense. MOO