ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 42

[kittenish]

Even we profs don't have much info about students. I have their legal residence (unless they clicked a box denying me that) and a legal phone number (and I'll say that not one time has any who can summon a student has ever answered a phone number that I've had for a student - ask me more if interested).

That's it. That's all we have. And they can get our residence, phone number AND our work schedule online. Plus a few other facts if they are diligent.

What TA's can do is send out an assignment asking for identifying information (highly unethical but unsupervised students doing research on other students is not uncommon and many universities have policies against it; but the profs and deans have to enforce it).

Also, a TA can simply type a student's name into google. THAT will turn up way more than any university-held info. In this case, though, the victims are at a different school than the murderer's.

(from the last thread) AND

Kittenish wrote:



This is such an excellent post but the last thread closed out before all of you got a chance to read it. It was in response to the Legend (MassGuy). And it is so true.

Not every college has a Human Subjects Research Protocol. Profs have to fill the gap. I would never approve a survey of this type (but I'm an anthropologist, not fond of surveys for many reasons) but I can't believe a competent psychology professor would, either. Although, I will say the overall topic is a good one. But attempting to engage criminals in research is quite a complex thing and should be subject to higher oversight than just a couple of psych professors.

Legal opinions should have been sought (before the research was okayed). I wouldn't have approved it because I don't believe in putting pre-doctoral students together with criminals (in any context, except one in which there is real life supervision of the interactions).

Having had a chance to look at the actual survey, I can kind of see how it could have been mistakenly determined to be exempt (no greater than minimal risk). It would have still been an incorrect determination based on the fact that the researchers were not collecting directly identifiable information and would not have had an honest risk/benefit analysis considered. The description of their crimes could potentially identify participants and would raise the risk level of the research to greater than minimal/full committee review and may even require a prisoner representative to be present.

One other thing that stuck out is although he says the data will be confidential, that really doesn’t mean much. He doesn’t say it’s anonymous or that data will be collected/stored without identifiers. If he’s emailing the survey from REDCap, I believe the researcher has to manually set the the survey not to collect or tie responses to email addresses.

I also noticed he doesn’t say in the beginning of the survey that the study has been reviewed by the IRB, only in the advertisements. That made me go look up DeSales IRB forms. Non-exempt studies require specific elements of consent, whereas exempt studies can use an information sheet that does not include all of those elements. DeSale only has a full consent template on their website, so I assume that they do not utilize information sheets that are not based on the consent template language, which his introductory text does not match. No risks or benefits mentioned, no way to contact the IRB… those are significant omissions.

Based on all of that, I’m going to bet that this wasn’t an IRB-approved study. If they approved this, they dropped the ball big time.

 

[Joyful Simpleton]

IMO, his extreme diet was just a symptom of a much bigger disorder.

JMO

Or maybe he was just on a lot of Adderall and lied to people about his diet to cover that up.

 

[knuterocknes]

WS doesn‘t victim blame or name suspects without being named publicly. That’s why most of us are here. Discussing possibilities in private messages is def not public and frankly, I don’t want to be included as “we”.

I used the incorrect wording, I certainly didn't mean everyone on here. I was more so frustrated by people on Reddit that did throw almost everyone involved under the bus, I'll edit my post and change the wording.

 

[Terry McRae]

Pretty sure if his DNA was collected at the site it was unknown at the time. Only when they got a match did they know who he or his family was.

How do you think they made the match?

 

[seemstome]

Not out of the question, IMO. I appreciate the insight.

I agree and he may have had the intention of finding someone to learn from; someone to, as you say, team up with.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

Help me out sleuthers…. that video that captured the girls walking down the street having the “what did you tell him / I told him everything” conversation. Did they use the name Chris? The internet is moving as fast as these WS threads, and I‘ve been (unsuccessfully) digging for it all night, wondering if Bryan Christopher may have gone by Chris.

I think they said Adam, but ICBW.

 

[Puzzles8]

Bryan Kohberger's friend described the difference in his appearance and demeanor before his senior year.
........
Mcloughlin said Kohberger was 'down to Earth,' when he graduated junior year. But at the start of senior year, Kohberger returned 'thinner than a rail,' had turned 'aggressive' and taken up boxing.

Recalling how their friendship soured, Mcloughlin added: 'He always wanted to fight somebody, he was bullying people. We started cutting him off from our friend group because he was 100 percent a different person.'

Kohberger said he has 'no idea' what prompted the sudden change.
...........

Bryan Kohberger: the OCD libertarian vegan who 'looked drugged'

Bryan Kohberger is in custody on charges of homicide for the Idaho killings. Relatives say he had 'obsessive' eating habits that went 'above and beyond' being vegan.

www.dailymail.co.uk

ETA - This might have referred to his Junior and Senior year at DeSales. Regardless, he had experienced a pronounced change in behavior in the 18 months before the murders.

JMO

 

[Kittycat40]

IMO, I am not sure how he is connected to the four roommates. I wonder how he knows them? How is B connected? That is my biggest disconnect because he lived Pullman Wa and went to school there as well.

For them to make an arrest and then make it public, the FBI and police had to have some good evidence before doing so. Regarding how the suspect is connected to the victims. Those are good questions that I am sure we will learn about in the coming days and weeks ahead.

 

[Strong1]

How do you think they made the match?

I have no idea. Also, I don't believe this whole DNA match thing has been verified by LE.

 

[ElizB]

Please help me understand how LE knew his DNA was at the crime scene? Did they confiscate his trash? Did LE have it from a prior crime? An ancestry/23 me site?

He worked as a part time school safety officer for a bit. Wonder if he was fingerprinted for the job?

 

[jumpingjackflash]

I agree and he may have had the intention of finding someone to learn from; someone to, as you say, team up with.

Or a confidant who didn't take an active role in the commission of the crime but provided psychological fuel.

 

[juliasalmons]

He worked as a part time school safety officer for a bit. Wonder if he was fingerprinted for the job?

Yep. Work in a middle school. Everyone is finger printed, even the bus drivers.

 

[Erutan]

For them to make an arrest and then make it public the FBI and police had to have some good evidence before doing so. Regarding how the suspect is connected to the victims. Those are good questions that I am sure we will learn about in the coming days and weeks ahead.

Agreed.
If he'd stalked any of them on line or in person, phone and his online records will have left a trail.
Imo.

 

[drmrgrl]

For them to make an arrest and then make it public, the FBI and police had to have some good evidence before doing so. Regarding how the suspect is connected to the victims. Those are good questions that I am sure we will learn about in the coming days and weeks ahead.

Thank you! I would be interested to know what downstairs roommates know too

 

[JackieBrown]

What do you all think about this?

Regarding “was anyone else arrested?” We have been thibkibg this was a ruse comment to throw LE off or as a true 2nd accomplice…

What if he was simply asking about other people present in the home where he was arrested? In the fog of a 3am SWAT raid, I doubt he was able to keep up with anyone else being shoved into a car at the time.

I’m (not at all?) sure it would be possible to at least detain a homeowner for “harboring a fugitive” or something like that…

 

[knuterocknes]

I have no idea. Also, I don't believe this whole DNA match thing has been verified by LE.

I do not believe they answered any questions about DNA in the presser, so no I don't think it is confirmed either!

 

[Copper107]

The following article will give some information about BK as a teaching assistant from his students and fellow teachers.

'It was so close to us the whole time': Neighbors and students of UI killing suspect Bryan Kohberger react to his arrest

Seven weeks after the slayings of four University of Idaho students shocked the campus, police announced they believe the killer is a Washington State University graduate student arrested Friday in Pennsylvania.

www.spokesman.com

 

[cottonweaver]

Having had a chance to look at the actual survey, I can kind of see how it could have been mistakenly determined to be exempt (no greater than minimal risk). It would have still been an incorrect determination based on the fact that the researchers were not collecting directly identifiable information and would not have had an honest risk/benefit analysis considered. The description of their crimes could potentially identify participants and would raise the risk level of the research to greater than minimal/full committee review and may even require a prisoner representative to be present.

One other thing that stuck out is although he says the data will be confidential, that really doesn’t mean much. He doesn’t say it’s anonymous or that data will be collected/stored without identifiers. If he’s emailing the survey from REDCap, I believe the researcher has to manually set the the survey not to collect or tie responses to email addresses.

I also noticed he doesn’t say in the beginning of the survey that the study has been reviewed by the IRB, only in the advertisements. That made me go look up DeSales IRB forms. Non-exempt studies require specific elements of consent, whereas exempt studies can use an information sheet that does not include all of those elements. DeSale only has a full consent template on their website, so I assume that they do not utilize information sheets that are not based on the consent template language, which his introductory text does not match. No risks or benefits mentioned, no way to contact the IRB… those are significant omissions.

Based on all of that, I’m going to bet that this wasn’t an IRB-approved study. If they approved this, they dropped the ball big time.

plus that teensy problem of Reddit having some of the worst verified, least secure registration protocols.

 

[Wsimm]

IMO, I am not sure how he is connected to the four roommates. I wonder how he knows them? How is B connected? That is my biggest disconnect because he lived Pullman Wa and went to school there as well.

IMO I don’t think he’s connected to them at all and if so very briefly. With BK’s extensive criminal educational background and probable sociopathic tendencies, he found what he considered the perfect victims. A party house with many inhabitants and visitors. Weekends were about intoxication, people coming and going…unlocked doors. With that criminal education I’d think he’d be aware of the numerous fingerprints and the great deal of DNA from many people already in that house. Again IMO

 

[Betty P]

Some more commentary from people who knew the alleged killer...

Criminology Student Is Charged in 4 University of Idaho Killings (Published 2022)

The college town of Moscow, Idaho, has been reeling since the attack last month, but the police gave no motive for the murders.

www.nytimes.com

From the NYT article linked above:

B.K. Norton, who was in the same graduate program as Mr. Kohberger, said that he continued attending classes after the killings had occurred and seemed more animated at that time than he had been earlier in the semester.

“He seemed more upbeat and willing to carry a conversation,” Ms. Norton said in an email.

This sounds like the murders were something he had been planning for a while, JMO. There was a sort of urge or compulsion building up in him that he had to carry out. This sounds like a few other killers, like BTK or Ted Bundy.

He was also willing to talk more to people because he wanted to know what they were thinking, whether they might suspect he was the killer.

ETA: The above is JMO, just speculation. Experts tell us killers will often hang around, talk to people, etc. after a murder to find out if anyone suspects them.