ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 13

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sleepingmonkey

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IMO, I don't think that either M or K looked so intoxicated that refusing service would have been warranted. I know there is an interview with a food truck patron circulating via DailyMail where he (very rudely) describes their level of intoxication, but I don't even think they seem that drunk in the food truck video. And besides, it's par for the course to get really tipsy at local dive bars. They were obviously able to stand, walk, and get safely home (the "private party" who drove them home has been ruled out by LE as a suspect), so I don't think speculating on their level of intoxication is productive at this point. All IMO.
That is interesting bc to me she looks VERY intoxicated. I'm not judging her choice to drink a little or a lot, just the fact that it looks like she is having an interesting time trying to walk and maneuver around.
 
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WildWest

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For one person to kill four people with a knife in like 15 minutes would take almost an Olympian level of physical conditioning. Or a soldier with previous experience in urban combat during wartime. So I think that we are looking at two or more people doing this.
One could muffle the victim while the other kills?

Also maybe the killers were the ones on drugs, not a dumb down drug but a hype up drug?
 

ACG2x

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So the more I have thought about this case, I keep going back to the 911 call. However, not what you might think. I'm not that concerned with the fact it didn't take place until 11:58 AM on Sunday, but rather the events that led to it occurring.

Let's assume the murders occurred during the timeframe the coroner said and it was between 3-5 AM on Sunday. The 911 call happened at 11:58 AM so that's a gap of a minimum of six hours. The hangup here isn't that it took six hours but that LE has already confirmed there were others in the house besides the two surviving roommates when responding officers arrived and multiple people talked with the 911 operator.

Since there are two surviving roommates, it's possible it could be the two of them passing the phone back and forth, however it was strongly implied that it was more than that given the others in the home at the time who presumably where not there overnight when the murders occured. From this I can presume the other individuals in the home with the survivors were called before LE - which can also easily be verified with phone records.

Using those circumstances, the questions I keep tossing around are:
  1. When did the two roommates wake up downstairs on Sunday and when did they decide to go upstairs? Was it one or both of them?
  2. What/who did they see and what happened immediately after? I am guessing they'd freak out and scream, but then run back downstairs and tell the other one? Call them up there?
  3. At some point, a decision was made to call another party or parties instead of 911. Who made that decision and perhaps as important - why? Please note that I do not believe any other party in the house when LE arrived has any involvement in the murders whatsoever - zero, none. It's just not the normal course of events in a situation like this.
  4. Who came over and how long were they there before LE arrived? Or even before 911 was called? Did they go through the house? One theory I have is they had friends come over and essentially 'clear' the house to make sure the perp wasn't still there. If anyone else walked through that home, they had the best of intentions but may have unknowingly contaminated a crime scene.
So we have three periods of time after the murders occurred:
  • When killer left to when surviving roommates went upstairs and found whatever they found
  • When others were called and before LE was
  • Once LE was called until when they arrived and secured the scene
Would like to understand how long each of these was in that approximately six hour span, but I would really like to know why others were called first before 911 and when those individuals arrived, did someone say hey we should call the police? I can't wrap my head around the AM hours before LE arrived.
 

kittythehare

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Yep, totally up in the air. I would imagine lots of laymen would characterize a very bloody crime scene as sloppy.
James Fitzgerald who is highly respected and with an impressive track record, has this to say and even though he states he is speculating, IMO, he's worth listening to.
(i wouldn't normally recommend 'experts' but he's making a lot of sense to me.

He is unclear about knife proficiency but he's very clear about the planning and reckons he left no clues at all!

This has a ring of truth for me
 

acutename

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Has anyone watched the Profiling with Pat Brown video for this case on YouTube? I feel like she made some very good points on why the killer is less likely to be a stalker or serial killer and why either Maddie or Kaylee would have been the original target. I think it does make logical sense that killer would have gone upstairs, attacked the girls, then something happened where on way back down down either Ethan or Xana heard or saw the killer and once there was recognition of who would have stabbed the girls, the other two were taken out. Otherwise if Ethan and Xana were the target killed first, the killer could have run right back out the sliding door without being seen by girls upstairs.
If you were a psychokiller going into this house, wouldn't you wear a face cover? And would E or X have been able to ID this killer?
 

layer

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Frankly, that house is one big target to a sick mind. All those girls, lax security, no cameras, door frequently left unlocked, no curtains on the windows, dark neighborhood, lots of dark space in the back for peeping, studying, planning, ingress and egress.

One big target.
 

isabella88

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James Fitzgerald who is highly respected and with an impressive track record, has this to say and even though he states he is speculating, IMO, he's worth listening to.
(i wouldn't normally recommend 'experts' but he's making a lot of sense to me.

He is unclear about knife proficiency but he's very clear about the planning and reckons he left no clues at all!

This has a ring of truth for me
Wouldn't anyone who did this have a violent ideation? No offense but these talking heads on tv, no matter how credentialed, don't know anything more than we do in the public. But it's a payday. JMO
 

Emerald1328

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Idaho State Police (ISP) Forensic Services is "doing much of the forensics analysis" in the case, which is a "priority for them," ISP Public Information Officer Aaron Snell told Fox News Digital in a Friday interview.

"There have been scientists working 24/7 in the lab to try and get back some of those results in quick order," Snell continued. "So, while there's other cases going on, this case is a priority. And we're starting to get back some results."
 

tokyorose

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Frankly, that house is one big target to a sick mind. All those girls, lax security, no cameras, door frequently left unlocked, no curtains on the windows, dark neighborhood, lots of dark space in the back for peeping, studying, planning, ingress and egress.

One big target.
Agree. I do think that the fact that this is Idaho, may have led them to be less security conscious than if they lived in a larger metropolitan area. MOO
 

tokyorose

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nightrider17

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Could the person who did this own a dog too and had a reason to be walking in that area - leading up to the event, scoping for possible escapes routes and even stopping with the reason the dog is doing its business etc.


Thereby giving the perpetrator a reason to linger in an area longer getting a better insight to the property etc.

Also taking their dog out at odd times of the night - because their dog needed to do its business.

So it doesn't look weird to be in an area at odd times. Just walking my dog.

Maybe even the dogs crossing paths with each other? MOO
 

Warwick7

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"The person who stabbed four University of Idaho students to death as they lay in bed left a “mess of evidence” at the scene, a victim’s father told Fox News on Sunday. Steve Goncalves, father of Kaylee Goncalves, said that authorities have indicated it’ll take “a lot of time” to process all the evidence because his daughter’s killer was sloppy. “This wasn’t like a pinpoint crime,” the grieving dad said, adding that detectives indicated they’d have to examine each piece of evidence “point by point..."

(
130 pieces of physical evidence.)

There is an "alleged hoard of clues" at the scene.

 
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bonniejeanne17

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They are pouring money into this investigation millions according to press releases. Why not offer a $100,000 reward for the tip?? If they don't produce results soon before like Christmas with their investigation I think we need to see a reward offered.
I have been asking this question about a reward for a week now.
From a practical viewpoint, this would be the time to do it, when most people are feeling very generous.
Someone on here said that only 20% of all rewards for a crime like this are ever paid out. 20%? I like those odds if it means a serial killer will be taken off the streets. And if a maniac will not continue his hobby for ten more years, like Bundy Ramirez, or BTK.
 

Warwick7

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Agree. I'm trying not to get tunnel vision or too bound to one theory.

"Authorities have said they have not ruled out that more than one person may have been involved in the killings. Police believe the attack was targeted."

Nov. 26, 2022 at 4:58 p.m​

Yes, and the last press release said the "people" not "person" responsible.
 

Ozoner

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Frankly, that house is one big target to a sick mind. All those girls, lax security, no cameras, door frequently left unlocked, no curtains on the windows, dark neighborhood, lots of dark space in the back for peeping, studying, planning, ingress and egress.

One big target.
In my opinion, if somebody is determined to kill you, there's not much you can do about it. It makes sense to be cautious, but life is too short to be paranoid. Security measures might help against cat burglars, but nothing was going to prevent these murders. The killer was on a mission, IMO.
 

North_Idaho_Nony

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When you are drunk you have much poorer situational awareness and would make both girls easier potential victims than people who had not been drinking.
I don’t disagree in the slightest; just pointing out what the law is ~here~. This is a college town where there are intoxicated folks — male & female — walking around downtown most weekend nights, weather permitting. Perfectly legal.
 

acutename

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James Fitzgerald who is highly respected and with an impressive track record, has this to say and even though he states he is speculating, IMO, he's worth listening to.
(i wouldn't normally recommend 'experts' but he's making a lot of sense to me.

He is unclear about knife proficiency but he's very clear about the planning and reckons he left no clues at all!

This has a ring of truth for me
how does he know no prints, DNA left behind?
 
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