ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 13

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soap mama

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Brian Entin hosted a Twitter Spaces conversation with his producer and a former FBI agent earlier today. It’s interesting to listen to. There’s no new info (and some misinformation - they state the dog was in the house when the murders occurred and I don’t think we know that yet), but it’s really interesting to get the former FBI agent’s take on some of the questions we’ve had. There’s one thing I’m hoping she’s wrong about though. She thinks the police are saying it’s targeted possibly because one of the victims was mutilated or decapitated :(

Brian says he is traveling there tomorrow and will start reporting on Monday. He said he wanted to go earlier but some family stuff got in the way and he has been traveling a lot so it wasn’t the right time until now.

Love #newsdaddy but JC has a te fancy to get things wrong.
 

wary

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I keep seeing people say this and it surprises me. Did no one stay out super late in college or their early 20's and then sleep late the next day? It seems so common to me and doesn't surprise me at all that any of these kids would sleep until noon after being out the night before (unless they had a job to get to the next morning). This is actually one thing about this case that I don't find odd at all.

I agree. They might have been intoxicated, they didn’t have jobs or classes to get to, there’s a bathroom on their level, they might well have had a coffee maker or a mini-fridge in their room. And I’m sure their phones were in their hands before they got up.

MOO
 

Curious Me

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It's possible he targeted and hit a vital artery in the 'one fatal wound' described by the coroner.
Possibly the carotid, in the neck.
Rest of wounds could have targeted soft tissue only, abdomen possibly?
Graphic subject, but honestly, I don't want to learn much more. (darn curiosity) Just in the little searching I've done, I ran across a certain prescribed way of silent stabbing having something to do with going for the kidneys. William Fairbairn and Eric Sykes are names connected to it. If I were this killer planning this attack on sleeping people, I might have already read up on and know about all this.
The man in charge of teaching "ungentlemanly" techniques was Major William Ewart Fairbairn, Camp X's expert on silent killing. A senior officer in the Shanghai police before the war,...
 

mrtnira

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It's possible he targeted and hit a vital artery in the 'one fatal wound' described by the coroner.
Possibly the carotid, in the neck.
Rest of wounds could have targeted soft tissue only, abdomen possibly?
This is an unfortunate topic when applied in truth as occurred against the four students killed by knife violence. Life is precious.

However, with personal security in mind, I study knife violence, knife defense, patterns of personal security, etc. It doesn't seem (analytical qualifier) to take much to kill a person with a blade when intentionality is considered.

Reviewing security videos of stabbings, it appears often to indicate initial disability because of shock followed by bleeding that disables people from usually being able to continue resistance or often successfully escape. The assailants often do not demonstrate training, but instead exhibit raw power applied to the point of contact. The victims often have to become aware of what is happening to execute a defense and by that point the damage is done. The attacker often acts with decision through foreknowledge of intention, which gives them the advantage in timing and opportunity, in addition to having the weapon.

I have sincere human sorrow for everyone involved. The parents invested 20 years of life into their children, only to have this happen. This is tragic.
 
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chprs

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Been thinking about the quote along the lines of 'what the cameras don't show'. What are the chances LE are drawing a complete blank on all the footage they asked for, or even have managed to rule out any person/vehicle shown? They could create a map of all the coverage and I'm sure that would leave either quite a particular route out or possibly suggest someone near to the property. (I remember someone in a previous thread made an excellent post regarding security cameras)
 

slanda

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Speculation-- Did the killer plan to kill 4 people or did it just develop that way? Your target is on the 3rd floor. You break into the 2nd floor, and have to kill the people on that floor because you don't want them to wake and trap you on the 3rd floor. You find your target on the 3rd floor, but another girl is next to her, so you have to kill her too. One of the many scenarios my mind is cranking out as I go insane trying to imagine how this went down.

When I first heard about this case, I thought of Danny Rollings, The Gainesville Slayer, because something about the Idaho 4 reminded me of these murders specifically (probably the college student ages, numbers of victims, and the stabbing aspect).

I have since read up on Rollings’ MO, and it’s similar and different in a lot of ways.

1. First, Rollings was a spree/lust/thrill serial killer that posed his victims in horrific ways and SA the target victim, but not the other victims.

2. He specifically used a KABAR knife in his attacks along with a gun to subdue and gain compliance.

2. The first two victims In Gainesville, Larson and Powell, were both asleep… He passed by Powell (his actual target) as she was sleeping on the couch and went upstairs to kill Larson so she wouldn’t get in the way when he was with his target victim: He used duct tape to silence both of the girls before stabbing them. And then removed the tape and posed them.

3. He gained entry by using a screw driver to jimmy a sliding glass door.

4. He found his targets around where he lived (he was at that time, a vagrant that lived in a tent in the woods): At a restaurant, and a local convenience store and then stalked his targets for a few days and then killed them.

5. He picked women that looked like his ex wife and took his rage out on them.

6. His first murder was a girl he targeted in Louisiana and he killed her and annihilated her family (I believe it was a total of 4 victims).

In some ways, he was very organized but not in others but that may be because he was a poly drug user at the time of the Gainesville murders.

He knew and was taught human anatomy and knew where to stab someone to kill them.

Of course, there are many differences between Rollings’ MO and the Idaho murders, but, there could be some similarities that are still not known to the public.

For instance: LE keeps saying these attacks were “targeted” — well, so were the Gainesville murders but it took knowing Rollings and his confessions to understand the target and what it meant to him. He did make it sort of obvious with how some the women were very similar looking and 3 of the 5 victims were treated with an unmeasurable amount of brutality compared to the other two, which offered investigators clues as to his target victims.

He “targeted” his victims randomly and by sheer coincidence and the other two murders committed at the time were “collateral damage” for him. He then stalked them just a short time and used a screwdriver to gain entry and lay in wait.

Paules’ roommate, Manuel, was a surprise to him and he fought valiantly for his life.

As stated before, he SA the three target victims unlike what happened to the Idaho victims.

I’m not alluding to the idea that the Idaho killer is exactly the same type of killer: but the use of the KABAR, the “targeted” victims, the victims that were collateral damage, the way he gained entry (I think it has been theorized it was the slider door, and I’m going with that for this description and otherwise, it’s my opinion), the fact that maybe the Idaho killer wasn’t familiar with the layout (or the survivors locked their doors or something) or they weren’t his targets at all or within the target area and that’s why their lives were spared, the seeming thrill kill aspect of the incident (IMO, b/c i theorize this was a type of thrill-kill for the perpetrator), the seeming randomness of the murders (since LE has been ruling out potential subjects closest to the victims and working their way outward) and no POI or suspect has been caught or named, the ways in which the victims were killed by being awoken from their sleep (and maybe quieted which can be explained by either duct tape or a gun), etc… I also think piquerism may be a factor in the Idaho murders as well as the idea that they weren’t committed by a person known to them.

This case appears to be not only targeted but possibly very well organized by someone who really thought this through (I think Rollings may have been more meticulous if he wasn’t on polysubstances, is my point).

The ways in which they differ is almost enough to not even consider the similarities: 3 spree killings that spanned over a few days, a first kill being a family annihilator (but no one knew that at the time), he was also a stick-up robber of a bank/convenience store, the SA’s, the posing of the victims, the time he took with his victims, etc… Maybe some of the differences, the extreme escalation, and manic behavior could be attributed to Rollings’ Meth and other drug use at the time?

We also don’t know the age of the killer, but Rollings I think was 35-36 and his victims were as young as 18— so, an older killer may be something to consider as well.

I think it’s also maybe important to note the baseline of what triggered Rollings to notice a “target” and how he noticed them and stalked them a bit beforehand and his profile may be something to think about in relation to the Idaho murders.

All of this is my observable opinion.

I’ve attached some of my source material for this.





 

Curious Me

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CaneDubs

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In an attempt to clarify for folks and having spent most of the last three years living with between 1-3 college students at a time (thanks pandemic) it is not even a little weird that the two on the bottom floor didn’t leave their rooms potentially or at least did not come up to the second floor til almost noon.

People at that age are still kids in most ways. Absent an actual reason to get up and going, they will sleep very late, especially if they were up late the night before. They will also just stay in bed after waking for HOURS and mess around on their phones.

I’ve got two kids this age at home with me now and I almost never see one of them before like 1pm.

I would not find that to be suspicious at all.

Also, not strange to me to call friends before calling 911. I can’t tell you the amount of checking with friends kids that age do with other people on the most basic things, nevermind something serious.
 

soap mama

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I'm not sure why anyone thinks that LE tells the truth. And why should they? I never get annoyed at LE because I know they keep things close to the vest - AS THEY SHOULD! I don't want suspects to know LE is looking at them.

ETA I should say when they feel they need to, be not willy nilly
Understood. I just have this sinking feeling LE got NUTIN.
 

accordn2me

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This is an unfortunate topic when applied in truth as occurred against the four students killed by knife violence. Life is precious.

However, with personal security in mind, I study knife violence, knife defense, patterns of personal security, etc. It doesn't seem (analytical qualifier) to take much to kill a person with a blade when intentionality is considered.

Reviewing security videos of stabbings, it appears often to indicate initial disability because of shock followed by bleeding that disables people from usually being able to continue resistance or often successfully escape. The assailants often do not demonstrate training, but instead exhibit raw power applied to the point of contact. The victims often have to become aware of what is happening to execute a defense and by that point the damage is done. The attacker often acts with decision through foreknowledge of intention, which gives them the advantage in timing and opportunity, in addition to having the weapon.

I have sincere human sorrow for everyone involved. The parents invested 20 years of life into their children, only to have this happen. This is tragic.
I would imagine there would be blinding pain in the area where stabbed and might cause the victim to grab themselves right there. Hence, "defensive wounds" to the back of their hands from successive stabs. So terrifying and heartbreaking in this case.
 

SteveP

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Understood. I just have this sinking feeling LE got NUTIN.
If it were only local LE working this case, I would likely agree with you. But with the Idaho State Police, and more importantly, the FBI working it, I think they have a lot more than "nutin". I am confident this case will be solved, though surely not as quickly as we all would like. JMO
 

The Observer

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I have an issue with the idea that someone was a ‘target’ .
I think it is one line of thinking and only matters to the investigators, so keep it to yourself.

How does that make a parent feel to know your child was or was not the target Of a murderer? That is a very strange place to put a grieving parent either way.

Think about it, your loved one died but they were not the target- they were collateral damage. The killer was actually after someone else.. for whatever reason. Really? It isn’t even a fact. Why on earth would LE make such a statement to the parents and public?

Consider the flip side, your child was the target of a killer and three other people were collateral damage. They were not intending on killing them, but they did to get to your child.

The only thing such as statement does is divide the parents who should be supporting each other. Saying such a thing to me reeks of poor judgment

JMO
LE are the ones that have stated it was a targeted attack from the get go. Every news and media outlet have made it their headline. The parents themselves have mentioned targeted in interviews. Pretty sure it being discussed on an internet forum is the least of their concerns right now.
Have you told every other poster here this same thing because I feel like it’s been discussed a million times who was targeted?? I think targeting matters as that helps find the perp!

ETA: I’m not sure any grieving parent in this situation right now is trying or not trying to hurt feelings- they just want answers!!!
Exactly. ALL the threads contain people discussing who might be the target. Media coverage is speculating about it 24/7, and no doubt have cameras in the parents faces.
I would never live in a house with a sliding glass door it's just asking for trouble and puts a big target on you.
This I find odd. Must be a 'where you live' thing. Every home I've ever lived in has had multiple glass sliding doors. I'm not asking for trouble and have never been targeted. Everyone I've ever known has or had glass sliding doors. Same thing.
 

JohnBull

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Exactly. And I believe any reasonable person would conclude that should require looking into details and comparing the evidence for a period longer than a mere 36 hours… they shot down even the possibility of a connection within less than two days… and I’m sticking by my opinion on this one.
Well, with two completely unknown perpetrators, they must have some pretty solid evidence at hand to support a definite conclusion.
 

Shekkiec

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Sundog

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Though I'm sure this would be problematic in the US, I'm certain I've seen the use of a blanket DNA request of males that resided in a certain geographical area to solve a couple of cold cases in the UK.
There could be Fourth Amendment issues with a DNA dragnet and its coercive nature. JMO. Perhaps an attorney might weigh in on this.
 
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