ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 13

[tokyorose]

Sadly, I feel this case will be similar to the Molly Tibbetts case. Weeks and months of speculation (the boyfriend, the neighbor, the sex offender, etc.) … and then it turns out to be some almost random sicko. IMOO

MOO but I disagree.. There is a vast difference between being followed on a jog and being murdered in your bed while asleep.

 

[indicolite22]

Apologies if I’ve missed it, but has it been officially stated anywhere which male in the grub truck video LE has cleared? IMO I see 3 different males clearly interact with the girls so just trying to understand which male LE is taking about.

Yes, the guy in a white hoodie.

 

[AngTxGal]

Police can get a court order to obtain a person’s DNA from some of the websites such as 23andMe and ancestry. Please correct me if I am wrong. But, I recall reading a couple cold case murders that were solved via this type of genetic DNA.

However, my point was that many young people that I know don‘t want their DNA “out there” coupled with the fact it is not cheap to have genetic DNA completed.

LE doesn’t get a ’person’s’ DNA from these websites, they compare a DNA profile with other DNA profiles in the database.

So someone in curious and submits their DNA to a database- 23nMe or ancestry etc. These are Familial DNA Databases

Somewhere body fluid or hair has been collected from a crime scene. They extract the DNA from the fluid or hair. A DNA profile is created.
This evidence could be collected yesterday, or 30 years ago.

First they would compare this DNA profile to a Criminal database.
Maybe there are other cases elsewhere that contain DNA that has the same profile, so they know there is a serial perp and have his DNA Profile. They don’t know who he is.

The identity happens when the DNA profile is linked to a person’s name.

So, if they do not get a match to Criminal databases, they can compare to Familia databases.
If there is a match it can be very confusing to figure out who the actual individual person may be. The markers in common could be in common with hundreds or thousands of people. Think of it like linking you to your great great great grandparent- or even more greats. All of the people who are descended from them have those markers. So who is it?
It takes more work from there to eliminate and figure it out- sex, age, location,
Imagine getting it down to several male cousins then brothers.

In this case they went back to POI from the original investigation and asked them for a DNA sample, and compared it to male DNA from the crime scene.

Young murder victim helps solve her own cold case nearly 40 years later

The 1979 case of a murdered 18-year-old baffled local police officers for decades, until they got a break from evidence Michelle Martinko left behind.

www.cbsnews.com

The last time I checked there was a legal issue with Yogurt Shoppe Murders Dec 1991 Austin Texas. While a connection has been made from DNA found at the scene to a database in Florida- that database is not legally able to give out the family lines who are connected. People giving their DNA for a study did not sign that it could be used to compare for forensic purposes.

Could a DNA sample taken 31 years ago solve the infamous yogurt shop murder case?

The 1991 murder of four teenage girls in a Texas yogurt shop remains unsolved, but there's hope that advancing DNA technology will change that.

www.cbsnews.com

JMO

 

[Emerald1328]

I think we are at the stage that until there is more evidence/progress released it’s pretty much a dead end in trying to theorise what may have happened. A number of explanations are plausible and even the ‘experts’ are all having different opinions about motivation and profile.

A couple of things that might be an indication. Police are asking for information specifically from around the Arboretum and highway near the university. This is the route you would take to the house from Sigma Chi, where E and X were on the night. Not the girls who were in the city. Is this significant? Do LE think the target may have been X or E (Or both). The correlation of why they are interested in that area I presume is not coincidence and some evidence is leading them there.

Secondly, although I’m increasingly veering towards stranger/stalker type scenario, I note that LE haven’t asked for any suspicious activity, CCTV, Dashcam etc… from anything other then night of the 12/morning if the 13th. I find it interesting as in the stalker scenario you would assume that there may have been evidence in the preceding days of someone around the house. I may have missed it but I’m sure all quotes I can see are of the specific days if 12/13th and even more specific timelines within. That to me is quite telling. Have they rules out the stranger/stalker scenario. It would be very odd in that scenario for someone to turn up out the blue on the night IMHO. But LE don’t seem to be looking for any video evidence or suspicious sightings prior to the 12th. Doesn’t add up to me with the stalker theory.

I’ve been wondering if they are asking for video of those specific times/locations to rule OUT someone’s alibi. What if someone said, oh, I was driving in this area around this time, I can’t quite remember the route I took, but forgot my phone at home so sorry, you can’t corroborate it that way Mr. Detective.

 

[scottr]

Just something to add which adds to the strangeness of the roommates reporting someone 'unconscious'. A few years back I just missed the main artery in my arm punching an old style window like an idiot while drunk. I passed out and obviously went to the ER, but I saw videos, there was blood on my friends 12 foot high ceiling and all over their first floor apartment. I honestly should not have survived.
But it was an absolute nightmare I vaguely recall.
Point being I don't get how there wouldn't be blood every where unless they were under the sheets? Even then. Blood squirts. Atleast 12 feet high apparently.

We don't know that the roommates actually reported someone as being unconscious. Sure this is what LE has released about the 911 call but they also won't release the 911 call so you can't be sure that this is what really happened. I agree with you about the amount of blood. I unfortunately remember seeing crime scene photos from Simpson trial and there was an incredible and unforgettable amount of blood. I think it's likely that a roommate woke saw the trail of blood left from the killer or potentially transferred from the dog, which is terrible to think about. But had that happened I would imagine that someone wouldn't want to investigate further but would flee and call 911 in an absolute state of shock and terror. I think the 911 call is being held from the public to somehow protect the families' from the audio. It would be terrible to hear such a call. If it were just something as simple as someone not responding or being unconscious I don't know why they wouldn't release it.

 

[Birmingplumb]

I think we are at the stage that until there is more evidence/progress released it’s pretty much a dead end in trying to theorise what may have happened. A number of explanations are plausible and even the ‘experts’ are all having different opinions about motivation and profile.

A couple of things that might be an indication. Police are asking for information specifically from around the Arboretum and highway near the university. This is the route you would take to the house from Sigma Chi, where E and X were on the night. Not the girls who were in the city. Is this significant? Do LE think the target may have been X or E (Or both). The correlation of why they are interested in that area I presume is not coincidence and some evidence is leading them there.

Secondly, although I’m increasingly veering towards stranger/stalker type scenario, I note that LE haven’t asked for any suspicious activity, CCTV, Dashcam etc… from anything other then night of the 12/morning if the 13th. I find it interesting as in the stalker scenario you would assume that there may have been evidence in the preceding days of someone around the house. I may have missed it but I’m sure all quotes I can see are of the specific days if 12/13th and even more specific timelines within. That to me is quite telling. Have they rules out the stranger/stalker scenario. It would be very odd in that scenario for someone to turn up out the blue on the night IMHO. But LE don’t seem to be looking for any video evidence or suspicious sightings prior to the 12th. Doesn’t add up to me with the stalker theory.

Wow! Best post yet here-not looking for stalker or watcher videos days earlier.....how did you put that together- are you a detective or do u have a super high iq?

 

[MCath]

Has anyone watched the Profiling with Pat Brown video for this case on YouTube? I feel like she made some very good points on why the killer is less likely to be a stalker or serial killer and why either Maddie or Kaylee would have been the original target. I think it does make logical sense that killer would have gone upstairs, attacked the girls, then something happened where on way back down down either Ethan or Xana heard or saw the killer and once there was recognition of who would have stabbed the girls, the other two were taken out. Otherwise if Ethan and Xana were the target killed first, the killer could have run right back out the sliding door without being seen by girls upstairs.

 

[Mofranjo]

The order in the killings is very important. If the suspect started on floor 3 which is what I think happened, Xana and Ethan were the targets. Then he leaves through the kitchen slider.

That could be possible So strange we don’t know what went on at the party The girls were at that bar very drunk I feel they were the target But somewhere on here police said one victim had more stab wounds then the others They could have been target

 

[layer]

I did not know the co-owner of the dog has been cleared. When?

The male Kaylee and Madison called numerous times during the early morning hours of November 13th is the co-owner of the dog.

1. Who is NOT believed to be involved?

• Two surviving roommates,
• Male in the Grub Truck surveillance video,
• Private party driver who took Kaylee and Madison home on November 13th,
• The male Kaylee and Madison called numerous times during the early morning hours of November 13th, or
• Any individual at the residence when 911 was called

Source

 

[scottr]

I’ve been wondering if they are asking for video of those specific times/locations to rule OUT someone’s alibi. What if someone said, oh, I was driving in this area around this time, I can’t quite remember the route I took, but forgot my phone at home so sorry, you can’t corroborate it that way Mr. Detective.

According to the press release:

Detectives are seeking all outside surveillance video taken from 3 a.m. to 6 a.m. on Sunday, November 13th, from businesses and residences within the geographical area listed below. Detectives request all available videos – whether there appears to be motion and content or not.
• West Taylor Ave (north boundary)
• West Palouse River Dr (south boundary)
• Highway 95 south to the 2700 block of Highway 95 S (east boundary)
• Arboretum & Botanical Garden (west boundary)

Detectives are also seeking additional tips and surveillance video of any unusual behavior on the night of November 12th into the early hours of November 13th while Kaylee and Madison were in downtown Moscow and while Ethan and Xana were at the Sigma Chi house. Anyone who observed unusual behavior near these areas or has video surveillance is asked to submit their tips.

 

[JnRyan]

So the FBI have received 260 digital files on the murders.

Investigators have received more than 260 digital submissions in probe of University of Idaho murders | CNN

Almost two weeks after the stabbing deaths of four University of Idaho students, police are still searching for clues and asking the public for help.

www.cnn.com

Of course, "digital" could be as simple as a cell phone photo. Still has potential, though. For example, someone takes a selfie while sitting at the bar in the Corner Club or outside the Sigma Chi house and in the background it has a victim or victims talking with others. That is more potential witnesses for LE.

 

[OldCop]

With the pictures of them looking outside at different vantage points, that really does make the most sense. That the killer lived in the apartment complex right across from them. He was able to see when the lights were all out and had already planned it. If he was watching and saw Ethan go in the house, that is really something. That would take a lot of either commitment to the cause of doing what he wanted to do or recklessness to go in with a man in the house. I would assume the target was the women.

Living right across there would allow the killer to walk home after, or possibly have brought along a change of clothing and shoes and gloves and a backpack, and maybe even get into his car and leave and get a Head-start. Drop the murder weapon off along the way somewhere. They obviously know who they have been able to interview that might fit the profile, and if someone left town that Sunday and wasn’t around, that would certainly be sus.

I hope an attorney can comment on what probable cause would be needed to search someone‘s apartment. If anyone they have had the opportunity to interview seems like they could fit the profile, what do they need to establish probable cause to go through that apartment? If the killer went back into their apartment, there has to be some traces along the banister walking up the stairs, And around the apartment. No matter how careful they were to clean up, Luminol and all that can pick that up. Now if they got right into a car to leave town, that’s some thing else. But I think that they know probably who it is and they’re just trying to find the proof for the case.

I also hope that everyone arriving at the house before 911 didn’t contaminate the house, which it likely did. It is completely baffling that someone, if they saw blood, would call friends/family to come over & not 911.

I’m attaching a couple of more photos from Google earth of the victim’s home and the apartment buildings and houses around it. I think early on when the photos of the investigators were taken, they were scoping out all possible lines of sight (LOS), looking at the driveway that went up beside the scene to the back lot, and looking for cameras. One photo also shows an investigator looking over towards the house to the right of 1122 King Rd. from directly behind the house, (not up in the back lot).

 

[layer]

LE doesn’t get a ’person’s’ DNA from these websites, they compare a DNA profile with other DNA profiles in the database.

So someone in curious and submits their DNA to a database- 23nMe or ancestry etc. These are Familial DNA Databases

Somewhere body fluid or hair has been collected from a crime scene. They extract the DNA from the fluid or hair. A DNA profile is created.
This evidence could be collected yesterday, or 30 years ago.

First they would compare this DNA profile to a Criminal database.
Maybe there are other cases elsewhere that contain DNA that has the same profile, so they know there is a serial perp and have his DNA Profile. They don’t know who he is.

The identity happens when the DNA profile is linked to a person’s name.

So, if they do not get a match to Criminal databases, they can compare to Familia databases.
If there is a match it can be very confusing to figure out who the actual individual person may be. The markers in common could be in common with hundreds or thousands of people. Think of it like linking you to your great great great grandparent- or even more greats. All of the people who are descended from them have those markers. So who is it?
It takes more work from there to eliminate and figure it out- sex, age, location,
Imagine getting it down to several male cousins then brothers.

Young murder victim helps solve her own cold case nearly 40 years later

The 1979 case of a murdered 18-year-old baffled local police officers for decades, until they got a break from evidence Michelle Martinko left behind.

www.cbsnews.com

The last time I checked there was a legal issue with Yogurt Shoppe Murders Dec 1991 Austin Texas. While a connection has been made from DNA found at the scene to a database in Florida- that database is not legally able to give out the family lines who are connected. People giving their DNA for a study did not sign that it could be used to compare for forensic purposes.

Could a DNA sample taken 31 years ago solve the infamous yogurt shop murder case?

The 1991 murder of four teenage girls in a Texas yogurt shop remains unsolved, but there's hope that advancing DNA technology will change that.

www.cbsnews.com

Correct, as I understand it DNA from commercial services (like 23nMe, Ancestry etc) must be submitted to GEDMatch, and the contributer has to agree to have their DNA used for forensic (familial DNA) purposes.

 

[JamTow]

Not sure if it’s been mentioned and is probably of no importance anyway but the grey apartment complex across the road also appears to be the same building that the group photo of the housemates seen in the news was taken.

I just had a flash after reading your post… I would think every resident of the gray apartment complex across the road has been investigated/considered. However, perhaps there was a party or small gathering at one of those apartments that night. The specifics are just speculation now, but that may explain why/how someone may have seen K, M, X, or E and from which vantage point. Standard MOO, of course.

 

[TooMuchGun]

Xana and Ethan were presumably on the second floor, why would you suspect them to be targeted if attack began on the third?

because if he starts on floor 3 he stops after killing X and E

 

[OldCop]

All four were found in bed. Can we dispense with all the crawled-in-front-of-the-door and in-the-hall and on-the-couch theories?

University of Idaho Students Killed in Bed

See @SkyBoomer‘s post above.Post #207

 

[layer]

See @SkyBoomer‘s post above.Post #207

Saw it and replied. Post #214

 

[NoviceCrimeWatcher]

I do think the dog's whereabouts is key. If the dog was in the house, I would think the prep would let him/her outside so there would be no distraction/dog interaction. However, with the weather, the dog would have probably gone to the bathroom and then started barking at the door (to get in). This scenario would disrupt the prep's attack (possibly waking other people in the house as well). It would be too risky to have the dog in the house (barking at the attack) or outside the house (barking to get in).

 

[ktm44]

That’s what I keep thinking. Except the fact they won’t release 911 call.

I think there is a lot of misunderstanding about the statement regarding the 911 call that focuses on the term unconscious.

It has been mentioned that unconscious/passed out is a generic dispatch term for anyone who is not responsive but there has been no indication that the roommates saw nothing overly concerning.

I would suggest that because the seem to have called others and dispatch seems to have talked to multiple people from one phone, there was a significant amount of panic and confusion.

There was likely discussion about about the scene that should not be released to the public at this time.

 

[Mofranjo]

The male Kaylee and Madison called numerous times during the early morning hours of November 13th is the co-owner of the dog.

Source

First 4 I think