ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 17

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My opinion of what happened with the surviving roommates and the 911 call that morning:

Roommate(s) (RM) are up Sunday morning and it is strange that X is not awake and up for the day--maybe even had an event or brunch that she was expected up for. So RM knocks on X's door with no response. RM then tries to open X's bedroom door and discovers it locked. So RM then calls X's cell phone and X does not answer--but roommate can hear the phone ringing in X's bedroom (so she knows she is in there not responding). So RM then tries calling E's cell phone to see if he knows what is up with X---and the RM can then hear E's phone ringing in the locked bedroom as well. So then RM starts to get concerned and calls E's brother and frat guys that are essentially right across the street a the Frat House to see if they know anything or can come help. E's brother and frat brothers come to the house and knock on the door and call for E and X through the door with no response. So they decide to call 911 and report an unresponsive person in the bedroom. While on the phone with 911, the dispatcher directs them to try to open the locked door (this is when the phone gets passed around to different people as we know happened on the call). During the commotion on the call with 911, they eventually find a wire hanger to pop open the bedroom door and find the horror scene of their friends/sibling/brother stabbed to death in a grizzly scene. The RM and friends who are there then run out of the house and wait for police to arrive.

This scenario would account for all of the various strange facts we know about the morning and the call that seem off to all of us but seem to make sense to me.

Yes, this is pretty much what I think happened. They were calling and texting X and could hear her phone, which raised the alarm and resulted in a call to nearby friends (maybe she was supposed to be someplace, like work, by 11 and someone called one of the surviving roommates to ask if X was home). I think everyone may already have suspected that E was also in the room because they could also hear his phone, or because his car was parked in front, but they reported "an" unconscious person because they knew almost surely that X was in there.

I hadn't gotten as far as thinking that they managed to get into the room while on the 911 call, but it would make sense. I think the phone was being passed around while the surviving roommates were either trying to get into the room, were looking for contact information for other people who might be able to explain what was going on with X, scanning the house for other things that were amiss, or may have been looking for items that X could have ingested at the request of the 911 operator. I think it's also possible that the surviving roommates were getting more and more scared and were just too filled with anxiety to also handle the 911 call and simply let their friends take over.

All MOO.
And just that quick, it looks like the DA is now confirming "one of the victims in the home was in fact the target"

So if this report is accurate about there being one target, then why were the others murdered? If it's true that they were all murdered in their beds then why didn't they just murder the target and leave? There has to be more to this doesn't there?
From 8pm to 9pm Xana and Ethan were at a frat party. Still over two weeks later no one knows what happened between 9pm and 1:45am with them. Or if they do know LE is keeping it tight lipped. I imagine that the 22 FBI agents in Moscow are trying to account for every second of what occurred between that time.
Ugh. Was hoping to be wrong about this, but I just felt it in my gut.

I just don't understand because in the previous interview with Steve ( and Olivia and the son) they were asked about a Kaylee stalker and Olivia was absolutely adamant that Kaylee had never mentioned this and Steve didn't interject.
Do you think he's only just heard about this?
Does anyone find it strange the police have not mentioned the apartment building to the left of the girls house? Maybe they have and I missed it.

For me it’s just odd it hasn’t been discussed more.

The fact that there is a substantial sized apartment building, primarily one - two bedrooms… with the best access to the dead end road behind the house, also has best indoor Birds Eye view of the home….

I believe they are called queens road apartments. 500 queens road.

The killer could have easily stalked the girls, learned their routines and been able to enter and leave the home unseen. Given the coverage behind the house and to the apartment building.

I’m attaching Google images for you to tell me your thoughts.

If I were an investigator… I’d want information on everyone and their friends who live in this building.


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And just that quick, it looks like the DA is now confirming "one of the victims in the home was in fact the target"

This prosecutor should not be making statements like this. All LE agencies and prosecutors working this case should have a single spokesperson and not be doing separate interviews. If such time they have a press conference there should be a meeting ahead of time to ensure that everyone is on the same page as far as what information is to be released.
All this back and forth only leads to more frustration from the public.
I think either K or M was the target, since they were in the same room (?) he killed both of them first. As he was leaving E walked out, maybe heard a noise, and was ambushed, then killer went in and attacked X. I think they knew who he was, thus they had to be eliminated.
They have already run the DNA through CODIS and NDIS, no hits. I read yesterday that they're beginning genealogical DNA research. That will take time, probably quite a bit of time (getting access to 23andme/Ancestry databases is the preferred method - but likely takes some kind of warrant). Both of those services cooperate with LE, but there are legal hurdles to it. At least that's my understanding.
I believe Parabon helps in a lot of these cases.
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my thoughts are that the 911 call has little or no importance in the case, and that the discussion has been overly extensive.

We are in the dark about:
1) Contents of the 911 call, and it’s very important. Which is exactly why we don’t know details about it. MOO.
2) Content of certain websites that might have gone dark following the murders.
3) Timeline for E and X. Hours are missing! Coincidence? I think not! MOO.
4) Who was actually in the house prior to and following the murders. Maybe there were other guests? MOO.
5) Where the bodies were found. They were all sleeping? Maybe not. MOO.

All five of these elements can be related and could be huge factors in this case. Which is exactly why the public is being kept in the dark on the same. MOO.

There is another huge problem: It’s a party house which is full of DNA. LE has tons of DNA, too much! Unlike most other cases, it’s not enough to prove that someone was in the house. LE has to prove that the suspect actually committed the murders. LE needs more than DNA. MOO.

So we can talk here about many things, but not the really important stuff, because we just don’t have that information. MOO.
I agree. I can certainly understand the frustration of friends and family of the victims. We are starting to see more and more criticism of law enforcement on this case. People want answers.
A few things to consider when we discuss the early days of the investigation; what was said, what was done, was the crime scene compromised, etc.:
When LE are dispatched to a scene, they basically arrive with a blank slate. They are responding to the information given by the 911 caller. This is why the call is so important. There would certainly be a different approach to, “My roommate is unconscious.” as opposed to “My roommate is locked in the bedroom and there is blood everywhere.” The number 1 priority for LE is always preservation of life. Did an officer approach one of the victims to see if he could get a pulse? It’s very possible. In doing so did he step in some blood or other evidence? Maybe. Does that make him useless or stupid? I don’t think so. If your loved one was laying on the bed unconscious wouldn’t you want them to be checked, just in case?
Now we have LE’s earliest statements. When you arrive on scene, you use your training and experience to make a preliminary assessment of what happened. A patrol officer in this situation would immediately call a supervisor and detectives to the scene. Within a short time the word has gotten out, you have 4 dead students, people are alarmed. You have to say something so you make a statement releasing basic facts and present your earliest theory of what you think happened. After a vicious quadruple homicide you can’t go out and say “No comment.” so you tell them your best theory based on what you know at the time.
An investigation is a fluid journey taking twists and turns as evidence is gathered, suspects are ruled out, and new information comes to light.
What is taking so long? These cops must be incompetent.
Sure, if you go to a scene in a pristine environment with a single victim and find dna and fingerprints and know there has been a recent bad divorce and the ex’s cellphone was at the home at the time of the homicide and he has no alibi, you might get a quick solve. Or what if you arrive at the scene and a suspect is standing over a dead body with the proverbial smoking gun?
But what if you go into a fairly large home, that is known to be a gathering spot and it is filled with red cups and party remnants and you have four victims spread out over two floors, and there’s dna but it doesn’t match anyone and you have to wait for all that digital data to come back and you start the labor intensive task of identifying friends, acquaintance, stalkers, exes and most of these people have left the area due to the Thanksgiving holiday or just because they are scared it could happen to them? Will that take some time? You betcha.
And you can also believe that these LE officers are working their butts off to identify this killer because they never ever want to have to respond to a scene like this one ever again.
Howdy. My thought was that after the perp committed each crime, he locked each bedroom doorknob lock as he was going out. This would slow down any discovery, and would account for the 911 caller stating that "my roommate is unconscious!" The alive roommates were probably knocking on the bedroom doors and getting no answers, making them believe their friends were unconscious, or passed out.
The depravity, violence & pure evil of the act makes me think this killer isn’t someone prone to intimate friendships. MOO. (Wanted to say that ) I could be wrong. It’s happened.
I say 20-25. I think he was either in the same age range as the victims or he was in that fringe range of being a peer. I believe the killer lived close to the victims and that area demographic is mostly in that age range. (I would think)
I think 22-29. Has done this before. Has a juvenile record of animal cruelty.
Surely they have reviewed surveillance from a wal-mart in Moscow in the hours just after murder tine. For whatever reason, it seems that perps often go to a WM in the hours following a homicide
Or in the hours before it, to buy their duct tape, bleach, weapon, and whatever else they're stupid enough to not realize that they're being recorded.
Hey everyone,

WS requires links to information stated as fact. What you "heard somewhere" or "read somewhere" "think I heard" etc is NOT an approved source. If you can't link it, you can't post it.

No link, no post !!
I am sure it was inconceivable at that point,that their friends could be dead. It is the worst possible conclusion, so they did not even go there. They only went as far as, "I think someone is unconscious," because they could not imagine it to be worse than that. Our minds protect us.
First time post .. sorry if this has already been discussed.

Is it possible the killer could have come into the house prior to all six students arriving home? I'm not familiar with all details of the three levels of the house, just thinking there may have been an area on the 3rd floor where someone hid waiting until K and M were in bed asleep.
At this point, the survivors leave the house.
  • Fearing for their own lives and in a state of panic and wanting to just get away from the horror they just saw, they run outside and are inconsolable and nearing shock. One of them tries to dial 911 while the other is trying to call friends.
  • Before whichever one can tell the 911 operator what's even happening, she either passes out/faints from the shock or can't make out a complete sentence.
  • Passers by or neighbors start to notice this and stop to assist. One of them takes the phone and reports an "unconscious person". This would coincide with the "unconscious person" actually being one of the surviving roommates and not one of the victims. This also would explain how anyone could mistake a stabbing victim for someone who was just unconscious - aka they didn't. See the CourtTV interview a LE spokesperson did in pic and what he said.
  • Multiple people speak to the 911 operator - as has been reported already by LE - because the passers by have no idea what's happened inside the house and the two survivors are in a full blown breakdown which you'd expect.
  • The 911 operator relays the initial information - there's a person who has fainted or passed out here and we don't know what else is happening. Officers respond and arrive close to the time their friends did.
<modsnip: “unconfirmed” = rumor>
The fainting story resonates with me. It's pretty simple when considering the other crazy stories going around.

Here is some reputable info on vasovagal syncope (Fainting):

And I agree, "unconscious", whether 911-dispatcher-talk or not, does not make complete sense here in regard to horrifically murdered people and the scene(s) that go along with it.

If anything, the 911 caller(s) could rightfully be considered in shock and incoherent. If the callers said "unconscious" I bet it was in answer to a dispatcher's question trying to make sense of what was happening. Totally JMO.
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  • Before whichever one can tell the 911 operator what's even happening, she either passes out/faints from the shock or can't make out a complete sentence.
  • Passers by or neighbors start to notice this and stop to assist. One of them takes the phone and reports an "unconscious person". This would coincide with the "unconscious person" actually being one of the surviving roommates and not one of the victims. This also would explain how anyone could mistake a stabbing victim for someone who was just unconscious - aka they didn't. See the CourtTV interview a LE spokesperson did in pic and what he said.

Perhaps whoever saw the body/bodies couldn't comprehend that they were actually dead and still clung to hope that they were alive, which is why they said "unconscious" on the 911 call. It's easier to conclude someone is unconscious than to be forced to acknowledge that they are dead. People will sometimes do this, even when it is very obvious to an observer with more distance that the victim is clearly dead.
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