ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 17

Status
Not open for further replies.
or how about pre-cut duct tape over the mouth and fast wounds that made it impossible for them to scream and were fatal within 30-40 seconds each? When you're used to sleeping in a bed with someone, esp if you've been drinking and are full of pasta, you might not wake at the slightest sound or have lightening fast responses to go all ninja on a killer. in fact, your first and last thought might be one of confusion, trying to wake enough to understand what was happening, but it would be too late. jmo
That too can be possible, but he had to do that twice. If he knows what he is doing, done that before than he is playing and this is pure adrenalin (and even then they can slip), but if he is a college student who doesn't know what he is doing, going on pure rage, adrenalin kicks in, lots of things can go wrong, if he is alone of course.
 
I really liked your post: keeping close to all facts known, logical.

I agree with a lot you said, but i disagree/getting confused with the killer's escape part.

I agree that the trigger of this was K. Seems logical, she already left the town for good, certainly a lot of people were aware of her plans to relocate across the country and she never made secret out of it (her ad on social media to sale her old car, for example, clearly states she is going away and not planning to return). She did not suppose to be in Moscow, Idaho on that night. She came to show her friends the car she just bought so a lot of people must be taken by suprise when they saw her as she walked in Corner Club that night.

Perhaps, that surprise gave steength to K. admirer to try his luck that night. Only to be turned down, as obviously that admirer were not with the girls when they went to buy food later on. I agree with this.

At the sane time, K. and M. went to a place with much higher risk to meet and attract someone who later would atrack and kill. The trigger for this attack must be somewhere there.

And that explains why the investigation focused on K. and M. movings and whereabouts that night. Besides, X. and E. were in much safer environment that evening, at a party with people most of whom they knew very well.

I am not sure the guy is a student, his actions speak of more mature person, for example someone who can handle own rage at front of others but release it in full with vulnerable. This points to mature person with certain level of responsibilities in their job. They cannot handle rejection in either general or in that period of time in their lives.

I agree that he wanted to teach K. a lesson that night for whatever reason he thought justifies his perception of his right to teach and punish others.

He must have been somehow familiar with the complicated layout of the house prior to attack. If he had long term crush on K. as you suggest and I agree with, then he could have watch the house for a while, not necessarily planning to attack, just to watch her. He might have been on one or two parties there, as he would have tried to get close to her. Or he was in the house in other function - delivery, maintenance jobs, property management, street maintenance. You would never get to that neighbourhood if you do not have/want to go there.

With revelation that both girls died in the same bed, the motives of the killer as we discussed them prior to knowing this, need to be altered, too. I agree with your explanation how the attack has happened and why 4 young innocent people died that night.

He may did not plan to kill 4 people.

But, he had a military type knife with him, prepared to be used. And that points towards planning to hurt mission. Planning to kill, if the need to or opportunity arises. If he was just planning to teach K. a lesson, not killing others, he would have left the house the moment when he heard E. or X. coming out or getting disturbed. But the killer did not hesitate to attack, kill and carry on with killings. He was mentally, psychically and instrumentally prepared to kill.

That points to much better organised, focused, merciless person. Person whose basic instinct is to attack and kill, not just to punish. That is another reason why I am not sure he is a student, but more mature man. For some reasons I think he is 32, plus minus 1 year. Do not ask me why. My perception of mature physically but still immature mentally man.

The escape route is a story on itself. He was dripping blood. Even if he washed his boots and clothes somewhere in the house, he must have dripping blood and blooded water whenever he went.

What puzzles me if why the surviving girls did not notice blood drops on the second floor, there must have been a lot, leading to the kitchen sliding door.

There must have been blood around the door of E. and X. bedroom, where the killings started. That was also not spotted, so someone would go ahead and immediatelly call the police, not friends? Strange.

Handling the dog and silencing him without harming is also a telling story. I had a dog myself, they sense when their owner is in danger and would wake up half of the city barking. It takes a lot of knowledge and experience to handle the dog not to bark when their owner and other people are attacked. Dogs sense blood, it is in their instincts. So, the killer may have a dog himself or he used to have dog, he may be training dogs, working in dog centers or in vets surgery. Thinking of how delivery and dog might be linked, how about delivery of dogs food? Where K did order the dog food from?
The lack of bloody footprints has puzzled me, but if they were stabbed in the chest, then is it possible that there was not arterial spray but rather they just bled out and the blood soaked into the mattress? Might not have been as much on the clothes or floor as I thought. JMO
 
I'm not sure what your point is here. If police think dog owners are in danger they should alert the public to that information. What people do with that information is up to them. There's a difference between sharing what you have and withholding something. Imo

Then the fact that police haven't said anything should imply they don't think or can't confirm a link with dog owners. It shouldn't imply they're keeping things from the public that could save lives. MOO
 
That’s pretty much what I was thinking earlier today. He went/was on third floor first & since both were together, he may have had some difficulty, dropped something, tripped etc.
Ethan &/or Xana either heard the noise & he went to investigate or one of them had the extreme misfortune to need a drink or bathroom break as the perp came down. (Iirc, the bathroom isn’t attached to the bedroom... & I’m not sure it was ever established that Kaylee had already moved out.)
This was her last night in the house or she moved before and was just visiting. Heard both so yeah not sure.
 
Interesting - I’ve not seen that pic. You can tell it was delivered?

FWIW, I don’t know how common getting food delivered from Pullman to Moscow is. I can’t think of an instance when we or anyone we know have ever done that.

OTOH, we aren’t college students!
It is a Jack in the Box bag with torn red tape like DoorDash uses at the top of the bag and a sticker with X’s name on the front. Possible X could have driven to pick up a prepared order, so I suppose it’s speculation that it was delivered. That might actually make more sense since there was a name tag with just a first name on the bag. More importantly, the bag could have been placed there considerably earlier, like Friday night or Saturday afternoon, and just not discarded yet.
 
I think, unfortunately, it would be pretty easy for a man to kill 2 women in the same bed with at least limited noise, especially if the women had been drinking until 2am.
- Perp could have straddled one victim, holding them down whilst killing the other. (Could have used a hand to cover their mouth or if they're sleeping on their front pushed their head into a pillow.)
- Perp could have stabbed both in the neck to avoid them being able to make sound.
I think the fact that they both died in the same bed means the perp got onto the bed as he killed them, likely holding one down whilst killing the other first, meaning neither had a chance to get out of bed.
Either way - The fact that each were stabbed multiple times in the upper body would suggest it happened quickly and frantically.

There is a chance that Ethan didn't hear any disturbance and in fact he just happened upon the perp as he was going to use the bathroom or something like that. The killing of Ethan is likely the one that caused the most noise, waking Xana, hence she had defensive wounds.

If the perp had made enough noise upstairs that he believed someone had heard him, I am not sure he would have continued down the stairs, rather he may have fled out the balcony which has a sofa to jump onto below or could have used on of the close trees to support getting down. - Going downstairs believing he had disturbed those on the second floor meant that he risked one of them having already dialled 911, one of them being armed and ready to attack him etc. The more I think about it, the more I think Ethan had left his room for water, bathroom, something like that and it was coincidence.
 
Regarding the news this morning that officials are walking back their early assertions that this was a targeted attack - they appear weak and incompetent when they try to muddy up facts they have already given. Stand behind what you have already said! Today, I’m more inclined to believe a victim or victims were targeted (IMO, KG and MM) than I was before this mess-up.
 
Two of them had takeaway food to eat and the other pair had been on a separate night out, so it's unlikely they went straight to their rooms after arriving home, they likely congregated together to eat and talk for a bit after arriving home.

If the group congregated in the kitchen (very likely IMO), it has no curtain and a large glass door. Behind the house, amongst the foliage, is a good location to watch the kitchen but because of the steep hill its also a good location to see the bedrooms and when they turn off their lights and go to bed.

Due to the surviving roommates already being asleep in their rooms at this point in time (on the other side of the house) and the fact that they were spared, could imply that the perp assumed there were only 4 people in the house and was not familiar with the unusual layout.

This would imply the attack was opportunistic and they may not be very familiar with each other.
A thought occurred to me. Could the killings have been a senseless fraternity prank designed to shock the two roommates downstairs?In other words, the two unscathed roommates were the targets and the killing was all about shock value?
 
Could we finalize or clarify an important point?

Many are still writing that E went out to investigate upstairs commotion as I did some time ago when I first got to this.

But MPD presser had Chief saying all four were "likely asleep" when stabbed.

I presume this means their bodies were found either in bed or at most at the foot of the bed.

Therefore it's not likely or possible that E was out of bed[room] when confronted by killer.

If so, our theories should stop including a confrontation of E and the killer outside of the bed[room]. All four would have been stabbed in the 2 beds.
Or am I missing something?
 
Last edited:
other members will recall more details - I only started posting from thread 16- but I saw mention they'd used dogs and saw some footage of them using a German Shepard around the perimeter.

with the deer urine thing tho, isn't that to mask human scent when both hunter and prey are in situ, at same time. In this case, with a K9 unit using a scent hound many hours after the perp has left doesn't the perp have to have left his scent, such as on an item of clothing?

as for blood hounds, not sure if they used a dog to track blood deposits around the perimeter but someone here will know.

re perp having a hunting link, in general it sounds plausible- the knife. stealth. quick kills ( maybe knowing what to body areas to target first in case of two victims same bed, what to target to reduce victim crying out. Don't want to get too graphic)
A thought occurred to me. Could the killings have been a senseless fraternity prank designed to shock the two roommates downstairs?In other words, the two unscathed roommates were the targets and the killing was all about shock value?
Because of the skill the killer seemed to have, slipping in and out quietly and using the specialized knife, this doesn’t seem to be committed by wobbly frat guys. I think the killer felt taunted by those he killed, and this had been planned out for a while.
 
A thought occurred to me. Could the killings have been a senseless fraternity prank designed to shock the two roommates downstairs?In other words, the two unscathed roommates were the targets and the killing was all about shock value?
Few people would classify a quadruple homicide as a prank. That motive seems implausible to me.
 
This is a good point. How did the killer know they were asleep? Maybe that points to the killer hiding on the house...in a closet or under a bed?
Maybe they came when the girls were calling their friend, got their attention by IDK throwing pebbles to a window and then because they knew them they let them in. they were talking a little bit and when perps thought that the house is quiet they attacked. Maybe they had drinks with them that were spiked with something. K mum said that she often called her friends many times, until they picked up. Did he picked up that knight, did they talked, or she just stopped calling? I don't remember
 
Maybe they came when the girls were calling their friend, got their attention by IDK throwing pebbles to a window and then because they knew them they let them in. they were talking a little bit and when perps thought that the house is quiet they attacked. Maybe they had drinks with them that were spiked with something. K mum said that she often called her friends many times, until they picked up. Did he picked up that knight, did they talked, or she just stopped calling? I don't remember
I think K's mom said the ex boyfriend was asleep so didn't answer the phone? She probably would have eventually stopped calling when she got no answer.
 
A thought occurred to me. Could the killings have been a senseless fraternity prank designed to shock the two roommates downstairs?In other words, the two unscathed roommates were the targets and the killing was all about shock value?
Seems highly unlikely to be a prank. However, regarding the survivors... I think the possibility exists that someone was so fixated on one of them that they felt threatened by the other housemates; felt like they were losing them to them, or that they were being somehow led astray by them. Sometimes motivations are so twisted that it's hard to rationalize them. I would be surprised if LE hasn't looked into such a possibility.
 
Few people would classify a quadruple homicide as a prank. That motive seems implausible to me.
I meant fraternity pledge and most people would not agree to something like that. I was thinking more of an ice cold, vicious Leopold-Loeb type killing.
 
I might be late to this. But how did police determine when E and X got home? Did they ever say?
 
Because of the skill the killer seemed to have, slipping in and out quietly and using the specialized knife, this doesn’t seem to be committed by wobbly frat guys. I think the killer felt taunted by those he killed, and this had been planned out for a while.
I think people give too much credit to the killer. I think he had a knife and just walked in a door and started killing. I am sure if it was a student that somebody on campus knows something. Time for the University to help. Has Femicide been ruled out? It is not. USA thing…..yet
 
The lack of bloody footprints has puzzled me, but if they were stabbed in the chest, then is it possible that there was not arterial spray but rather they just bled out and the blood soaked into the mattress? Might not have been as much on the clothes or floor as I thought. JMO
It may well be the case. But, there is the biggest arterie in human body in the chest, aorta from the heart as well as pulmonary arterie. Arteries are supplying the body with reach on oxygen blood with higher pressure than other blood vessels so the blood from cut arteries is more likely to spray. Correct me if I am wrong or any medical expert please give us your thoughts on the matter.

Also, it was reported, at least one of the killed students had defensive wounds meaning that at least one was stubbed not only in chest. The investigators said the crime scenes were messy, and I transcribed this as bloody. I am not a specialist but to me is unconvincing to believe that whoever killed 4 people was not soaked in blood of these people to some level. Unless he was wearing sort of professional body suit including shoes, which he stripped off on the top floor and before leaving the house. That means that he had to either walk to the house in that suit or put it on once in the house. Again, it points to serious level of preparation to attack and kill.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
173
Guests online
3,136
Total visitors
3,309

Forum statistics

Threads
592,164
Messages
17,964,512
Members
228,711
Latest member
OldDustyBooks
Back
Top