ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 19

[makayla]

This memorial is so sad, heart wrenching, and yet it's strangely cathartic to see all these loved ones talk about them. I generally avoid memorials and funerals, I have a low tolerance for sadness and wind up depressed. But that was really uplifting, and it kind of surprised me.

I agree. It was heartbreaking and very special, and the friends of Zana, Ethan, Maddie and Kaylee all spoke so beautifully and were amazingly composed. I know at my mother’s memorial I wasn’t able to finish expressing my thoughts before I broke down. I think all these brave young adults were blessed to know each other. God Bless these families and friends.

 

[John Book]

Was thinking about the knife that this coward in Idaho used when I remembered reading a chilling paragraph in a looooong ESPN piece from earlier this year about a serial rapist in the late 1970s who played football at Penn State. His name was Todd Hodne and he used a knife to threaten many of his victims.

Fred Ragucci was a senior defensive end on the PSU football team in '78. He was asked to room with sophomore Hodne in a dorm named Hamilton Hall. Here's one of the things that he remembered about Hodne...

... They did not spend a lot of time together at 279 Hamilton. Why would they? In 1978, there was nothing in most college dorm rooms outside a stereo and perhaps a hot plate. But later, Ragucci will always remember one thing about his new roommate: his knife. It was Hodne's prized possession, a gift his grandmother gave him after she returned from a trip to her ancestral Norway, the blade forged from fine Scandinavian steel. But what Ragucci remembers is how much time Hodne spent with it, his fascination with it. "He was always playing with it when he was in the room," Ragucci says now. "It had a leather sheath, and he would take the sheath on and off, on and off. All the time, even when you were having a conversation." ...

Before Jerry Sandusky, Penn State football had another serial sexual predator. This is the untold story of his crimes and the fight to bring him to justice.

When Jerry Sandusky's crimes came to light in 2011, the world thought it was the first time Joe Paterno and Penn State had faced a serial sexual predator in their midst. But that was not the case. This is the story of the predator who had come before.

www.espn.com

Who knows if the Idaho coward has a similar fascination with knives, but I wouldn't be surprised if the knife used somehow ends up being a factor in taking the coward down.

 

[Walela]

I was thinking sniffing for blood to find cloths or knife

With all due respect, out of all the blood that was most likely in that house do you think LE could isolate one blood profile to give to the dog? I would think that any blood presented to the dog would be so mixed that the poor dog would be confused. Now IIRC, there was a dog present at the scene that was on a leash but I don't know what kind of dog (not breed) it was.

 

[kmartin96]

It seems today's memorial is no longer available on the Real Life Ministries page/link. Has anyone found a replay or video that can still be watched? It cut out for me as Jake was speaking about Maddie. Thanks!

 

[Ccging]

Has it been confirmed that Jack and Jake were at the memorial today? I tried to go back and watch but the stream is gone.

 

[jjenny]

With all due respect, out of all the blood that was most likely in that house do you think LE could isolate one blood profile to give to the dog? I would think that any blood presented to the dog would be so mixed that the poor dog would be confused. Now IIRC, there was a dog present at the scene that was on a leash but I don't know what kind of dog (not breed) it was.

And we don't even know if any blood in the mix belonged to the suspect.

 

[cottonweaver]

The autopsies were petformed on Wednesday, Nov 16th if my memory does not fail me. The first results of autopsies were reported by the coroner on Thursday 17th and ii was reported time of death after 2 am. Couple of days later the time of death was reported as between 3 and 4 am.

If you can kindly provide a link to report about time of death before Wednesday, then we can discuss.

I got a link to the first coroner report here

Coroner offers new details about fatal slaying of 4 U of Idaho students after preliminary autopsies

The four students were found stabbed to death inside a home in Moscow, Idaho, on Nov. 13.

www.today.com

that sounds very late when it's a homicide.
iirc the bodies were sent to MEs at Spokane but I may have misremembered that.

wonder what the reason is for the delay?

 

[cara23]

I think what helps is to not focus to much on WHO (omg its the BF, Dad, serial killer, roommate, neighbor who keeps doing interviews) and list characteristics in order of confidence so here's my shot. Would love to hear what ppl think

Pretty confident

1. Has bruises and/or cuts on their hands or maybe some marks on their face, arms, legs
2. Has access to or owns a K-bar knife.
3. Is very confident with a knife and could IN THE DARK accurately stab & kill each of the 4 kids one at a time. This would require possibly lifting up a sheet and determining where to stab when someone is sleeping on side, back or front
4. Waited for everyone to fall asleep
5. Is on 4chan or similar site
6. Is obsessed with dark subject matter (gore, etc)
7. Is known by those who know him well to be a bit disturbed
8. There are likely very few people who know him very well
9. Walked to house (from car, from homeless shelter, frat, from house or apartment close by - I assume this because there wasn't another car seen on video pulling up minus the person who dropped girls off)

Fairly confident

1. Has significantly spied on the house from back woods and knows where 2nd + 3rd floors sleep
2. Has killed before (maybe just an animal, but...)
3. Hates popular kids and possibly is trying to one up the tried and true school shooter
4. Might brag or even post details on 4chan
5. IF it's a roommate, close friend or ex who knew victims well and the victims let them into their circle willingly
   1. were likely on a substance like meth, spice or some other hard drug or were having a manic episode/psychotic break
   2. the police are closing in and know who they are because they are in the circle and can't run AND because of the things I listed above in the confidence list (1-10)

What I don't feel confident in

1. Where this person lives
2. If they've left town
3. If they planned it
4. If the person knows the kids personally
5. The age of this person
6. If there was more than one person
7. If they have any remorse

 

[thatssoamy]

Anyone hear the letters from the roommates? Can’t access the menorial

Hi Thatssoamy,
Thank-you so very much for the link. I watched all the way until the friends were heading to the stage to speak and then the stream stopped and it show the dates for the next services. Do you know where I can watch the friends speak?
Respectfully,
Thora_Jay

I have reached out to real life ministries to see if there is a link available so people can watch it back I know it was being recorded for the families and in the live chat she did post a link for someone asking to watch it back from the beginning so once I hear and get a link I will pop it in here

 

[Trouble1321075]

IMHO, he’s a complete embarrassment. I was completely unfamiliar with News Nation before the quadruple murder in my town & have seen some good stuff (IMHO), but this isn’t that :-(

I get what he was saying but imo he is saying it with the benefit of hindsight. His suggestion that the cops should of immediately backed out of the crime scene might of been best to preserve the scene in an undisturbed state but the cops also needed to access if the victims needed medical attention. They also needed to go room to room to check for more victims as well as the possibility of the assailiant still being on site. They had to clear the scene before they could secure it.

Putting myself in the cops shoes for a moment...

What do you say to those kids after discovering their friends savagely murdered like that?

How do you break news like that to someone?

 

[Snoop Sister]

Quoting myself. I misread. It does list the four of them.

The obit was easy to misread as there were no semicolons. I had to read it a couple of times when it was referencing the family. A beautiful euology for a beautiful young lady.

 

[Ccging]

off topic...but I have to,

no curtains, no shutters, nothing that would give you privacy, especially in the evening with the lights on,

I CAN'T IMAGINE

Do we know if there were any before the murders and maybe LE took them down?

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

In 2019, when Augusta lived at the house, the residence had code locks on each bedroom door because each bedroom was rented individually, he said.

You never locked the [side] screen door. Why would you lock the screen door? I mean, you've got locks on all the rooms, so we never locked the screen door," Augusta said.

It was unclear if that was still the case when the victims began their lease on June 5. Some other victims' social media posts showed images of the home that reflected that the locks had since been changed.

He said people would frequently use a "walk path" that led directly from the area of the King Road home to the nearby fraternities.

Augusta said he has since submitted two tips to police, and is considering a third based on his experience around Moscow and living at the home.

Idaho murders: Former first floor tenant of Moscow home says he couldn't hear activity from other floors

A former tenant of the Moscow, Idaho, home where four college students were murdered on Nov. 13 says he couldn't hear activity from other floors when he lived on the first floor.

www.foxnews.com

Well, this is …odd. Moo.

 

[SkylarSid]

Has it been confirmed that Jack and Jake were at the memorial today? I tried to go back and watch but the stream is gone.

I am not sure about Jake, but Jack was there with KG’s parent.

 

[thatssoamy]

Has it been confirmed that Jack and Jake were at the memorial today? I tried to go back and watch but the stream is gone.

I watched it, Jack was with Kaylees family but didn't speak, Jake was with maddies family and spoke. Trying to get a link so everyone can watch it back.

 

[Crystal clear truth]

Has it been confirmed that Jack and Jake were at the memorial today? I tried to go back and watch but the stream is gone.

I saw Jake speak and JD was on stage with Kaylee's family

 

[drmrgrl]

Post in thread 'ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 18'
ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 18

I hope everyone takes a minute to read Kaylee’s obituary - such a beautifully written memorial

Thank you

 

[10ofRods]

Real question. There is an unknown killer on the loose. Why wouldn't anyone( everyone) simply behave as if there is an unknown killer on the loose and deal with that according to how they deal with knowing there is an unknown killer on the loose? I, personally, would reinforce any locks I have and I would do that whether they give me any more information or not, because hey, someone just killed four people and walked out of the house so I'd want better locks. I would not go out by myself at night because there is an unknown killer out there. It wouldn't matter if that unknown killer had "targeted" the house or a person inside, there is a person who kills people on the loose and they might kill someone else to escape being caught.

Is it that you believe people aren't going to protect themselves as well if they have more information?

ETA: to clarify, I don't believe that people will hear 'We've got this under control" and decide not to protect themselves with an unknown killer on the loose. More information, less information doesn't change that there is a killer or killers out there who have absolutely nothing to lose. But I live in a place where you always assume there is some crazy out there who will kill you if the circumstances are aligned and protect myself and family accordingly.

People should be more careful, in general, unknown mass killer on the loose or not, IMO. And, we need to drill this into our young people (which I do, both as a parent and as a teacher - probably more as a teacher, because my kids have managed to survive their college years and are now very very cautious in life).

Unfortunately, when the story is domestic violence, people do go back to their prior ways, as they figure there's no madman on the loose. We had a case near me where a mother killed her two sons; she denied it and said an intruder had done it; then she confessed to her husband in a crazy phone call; she has been convicted. I have to say that if I had thought it was an unknown killer on the loose, my already cautious lifestyle would have amped up to DefCon 2, at least.

I know this but the autopsies were performed on the Tuesday and the 3-4am was mentioned before that.

You don't need a full autopsy to determine approximate time of death - core temperature on the bodies should have been taken at the scene (along with temperature estimates from the rooms). It's possible, anyway, for it to be determined sooner than the actual full autopsy. The process toward rigor mortis is observable without autopsy as well.

 

[slanda]

It depends. If they felt humiliated and/or excluded from the bunch of beautiful, succesfull easy-going girls, they may were hurt deeper than we can think. And a boyfriend/sibling/friend decided to help them to feel better and punish the girls.

That is interesting possibility. It would explain why some but not all girls were targetted as well as clarify perpetrator's good knowledge of house layout anf tenants habits. The killer(s) might haven't been in the house before and were not friends with the any of the victims, someone told them what the girls are like, their habits, and drew layouts of the property and layout of specifics of surrounding areas for them. They may have told them that the patio door is often left open.

But it would be difficult to link the perpetrator to the property, as they never been there before.

Perhaps, that is what baffles the investigators the most?

Their murders don’t track with a petty grievance, IMO.

The way in which they were all killed with a knife suggests a particular type of offender and a particular type of motive.

If the above were true (while anything is possible), it would be more likely than not a result of maybe something less personal, like a gun or burning the house down. I think LE would maybe have a POI if it was someone closer to them and coupled with the fact that it’s been nearly three weeks and police work from the inner circle out — the probability of a grievance killing is less likely because they’re stating there is no POI’s at all.

IMO, the thought calculation, preparation, sheer constitution and physical strength it actually takes to brutally murder someone with a knife,<modsnip>, all while potentially fighting off the victim from defending themselves and keeping them quiet — Not once, but four different times is a different level of brutality.

The manner in which the victims were killed tells investigators a lot about the perpetrator. Since the beginning, this case has reminded me most of Danny Rollings, “The Gainesville Slayer”

In a previous thread, I listed the differences and similarities based off what we know. And I still think as time goes on, this may be a “true” victim crime where the victims possibly didn’t know, and had no real connections to the perpetrator, making it an extremely difficult case to solve, generally speaking.

Also, just because there wasn’t SA present doesn’t mean a few things (I previously discussed in an earlier thread):

1. That there still was a sexual component and it was one of the main drivers for the murders.

2. The perpetrator may have been caught off guard and wasn’t able to finish his fantasy; and or, he physically wasn’t capable of SA.

3. Piquerism may be involved. Basically it’s a type of paraphillia— a sexual disorder that involves knives and the knife is used as a stand in a phallic way.

4. These murders were way more brutal and personal than they had to be: there are many different ways to kill people and besides strangling, the perpetrator chose the most personal.

There are subtype personalities to serial killers and IMO, he’s mostly like a thrill-killer: these are the same types of killers as Rollings, Ramirez, and Israel Keyes.

If this is the case, only he knows why he chose them that night. The victims could just represent a stand in and he took his aggression out on them (as Rollings did). Or, they were seen somewhere by him and for whatever reason, he honed in on them and carried out his fantasy. We don’t know.

It could be a lot of things, but no one really has enough information to have a definitive answer and the longer it goes and people closest to them get ruled out, the circle gets wider and the murderer and his motive get more difficult to uncover. *This is all also conjecture on my part.

Google Sites: Sign-in

Access Google Sites with a personal Google account or Google Workspace account (for business use).

sites.google.com

Piquerism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[cottonweaver]

it's a good approach @cara23

btw an extra
NYPD guy ( I posted a clip of him about 5 pages back) said LE would also need to consider records of people who'd applied for a gun license but had been turned down ( to eliminate this as one possibility re choosing to use a knife)