ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 21

[Sleuth2010]

To me, that ^ circumstance leaves two possibilities. As stated above, if X and E were thew intended targets, there'd be no reason to go upstairs to kill 2 more girls.

So either K and M were the true intended targets, OR it was a thrill/spree killing, and the house was targeted because it had easy access, easy exits, and a secret place to lurk and watch until the break in. JMO

KD23 thinking on it... the graduating senior had moved out, which means the room was empty and had opened up. Perhaps (weird, sad coincidence) the room changing had recently happened. Once the killer's evil sicko-viciousness started - - the homicidal maniac had to follow thru. College housing often means lots of moving spaces around and quickly. Just our thoughts. TY

 

[otto]

Well, yes, of course there's a way to link it, by using examples where such a thing has occurred. If I had to bet, I'd bet that this particular perp, living in a town of about 25,000 people, had indeed been to the house before, especially after all that's been posted here regarding its status as a party house. IOW, a kind of statistical model.

There's no way to link the killings to voyeurism from the hill, either.

But both of these pieces of information are relevant. Potentially lots of relative strangers in the house, good views into the house from various angles, large same-age population living nearby, statistics about onset of some mental illnesses, etc. etc. It's all relevant and I do hope experts/police are weighing and evaluating these things and much more.

Unfortunately, the key is likely to be either "someone notices someone acting differently after the crime" and speaks up OR...

DNA. And then we'll know if that person had been there before or was known to the university student population or is part of it. Or is from out of town.

At this point, we don't even know if this is a spree type killer (probably not, I'd say) or which sex (I'm betting on male - but there's absolutely no reason the perp could not be female, IMO).

It's not necessary for someone to be in the house to see who is in the house and what they are doing. Someone can see that from the hill behind the house.

If the suspect lives in Moscow and similar age to the victims, then it's likely that person attended a party at the house. If the suspect is 20 years older than the victims, and lives outside of Moscow, he (most likely male) may have first seen one of the victims at a bar, or on campus. In that case, it would be unlikely that he attend a party at the house with these tenants.

Regarding DNA collection, it's likely that the bed sheets were taken for DNA analysis, as the last person to have contact with sheets, other than the victims, is the suspect. Every other room in the house is useless because it is a party house. It's pointless to collect all the DNA found in the house.

I suppose motive; the reason for mass murder targeting the residence or an individual, could be abnormal fantasy life with one of the victims, femicide, thrill of blitz attack on strangers ... the list goes on.

 

[everybodhi]

So, do they not release profiles based on actual evidence anymore? Its only for law enforcement?

Also, thanks for the response! Everything is all over the place and a lot to keep up with!

It’s always been a tool for law enforcement to help solve high profile, violent crimes, to determine personality, motive, MO, etc., based on evidence found at a crime scene.
I don’t know that it was ever intended for the public to know during investigations, we know about it because of books and movies.
It’s been famously sensationalized in movies like Silence of the Lambs but even in movies, are criminal profiles released to the public during investigations?
That could cause all kinds of problems like online sleuths using it to focus on innocent people or tainting a jury pool before trial.

 

[EmmieA]

KD23 thinking on it... the graduating senior had moved out, which means the room was empty and had opened up. Perhaps (weird, sad coincidence) the room changing had recently happened. Once the killer's evil sicko-viciousness started - - the homicidal maniac had to follow thru. College housing often means lots of moving spaces around and quickly. Just our thoughts. TY

I thought K’s father confirmed that she hadn’t officially moved out yet? He mentioned seeing her bed (still made) in one of the pictures published after the crime.

MOO

 

[Friday Fan]

It doesn't appear to be within walking distance if it's still in this location.... Why would Jack in the Box delivered be unusual? Like a nice meal vs fast food?

Generally and since Jack in the Box menu is very similar to other fast food menus.

 

[tarabull]

Idaho college killings: Roommates of slain students break their silence

For the very first time, the two roommates who were also in the house at the time of the murders have broken their silence.

www.newsnationnow.com

 

[Snoop Sister]

SG says he was told the entry point was the middle floor (slider or window). He goes on to say that the intruder's "entry and exit are available without having to go upstairs or downstairs". IMO, that means that the target was absolutely on the 2nd floor. The intruder should have been able to do whatever he came to do without going anywhere but the middle floor.

Then the interviewer mentions that SG has said that Kaylee and Maddie had different means of attack which suggest one of the 2 girls was the target. They ask if he can say which one of the 2 was targeted and he says that he asked for permission to tell, but was asked not to.

I thought the "means of attack" comment wasn't clear about who it referenced. "They" had a different means of attack could have meant the 2 girls were different from X&E or that they were different from each other. Did I miss where he alluded to it being about Kaylee vs Maddie? That doesn't make sense to me. If K or M was the target, the intruder did HAVE to go upstairs.

What did I miss? I obviously missed a detail somewhere.

--------

Think that I found it. Was he saying that K or M was definitely the target otherwise the killer wouldn't have gone upstairs?

Exactly @ your last remarks

 

[KBlackRabbit]

I don’t think the Jack in the Box bag is significant. I think X was out running errands or hanging out with friends or whatever, called in a fast food order, and she picked it up on her way home. She could have ordered it days before and just left the bag sitting on the table/counter.

 

[donnanj]

Thinking out loud here. I wonder if someone followed them home from the food truck. There seemed to be a lot of people milling around there. They may have watched the house and saw lights go on and off in just the two rooms they were in. The other roomates may have already been asleep.

 

[TooMuchGun]

MSN

the front door lock looks brand new

 

[everybodhi]

I think that's a slippery slope and sets a bad precedence. Police, I am sure, are sharing what they can. Being a squeaky wheel cannot be allowed to change their operating procedures. As much as the victims families are going through, LE is there to protect the public, not just the families of the victims. If they can't share information for fear of damaging their chances of an arrest and prosecution, then that is what must be done.

Releasing evidence that only investigators and the killer knows, like two sleeping in one bed, is a serious problem. Feeding a threat to keep releasing info if not included in investigators findings could create an endless loop of info being released to the public. Then the killer knows what LE knows and also inspires false confessions bogging down LE chasing false leads.

Not to mention the time away from focus on their real job, (solving a crime and gathering enough evidence for a conviction), in order to counsel grieving families.

 

[girlrx]

the front door lock looks brand new

He fixed the bedroom lock not front door lock

 

[TooMuchGun]

He fixed the bedroom lock not front door lock

I heard the call and she had no clue. She just knew it was a lock and a door

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

Appreciate you sharing that, I had no clue, I've never done either and would never have known.

I am a little super freaky when it comes to personal safety, but when I have to use my name for deliveries and / or in public places, I use a nickname so that if someone uses it later, I know that they don't actually know me. odd, but if someone rings my place and uses that name and I haven't ordered anything, I feel free to say that. and just did a few weeks ago. so it's a good tip. if I'm not sure, I ask what the order is - specifically the sender. I'm not buzzing in a random person with a maybe package. this is jmo about one way to be safe and cautious.

 

[warbuckle]

I just watched the Fox News interview . Did I hear him right? I swear he said “he didn’t have to go up those stairs.” Did anyone else hear this? What does that mean? When he says manner of death was not the same does he mean between K and M or the other 2 sleeping downstairs?

 

[acutename]

the front door lock looks brand new

picture?

 

[Seattle1]

I was referring to how people on WS were “interpreting” things.

I was too. Interpreting exhausted, distraught, word salad as something factual.

 

[otto]

Idaho student murders: Rumours, 'clues' and online detectives

“Despite seeking tips from the public, authorities in Idaho are warning rumours and speculation being spread by a growing army of amateur web sleuths is hindering efforts to solve the grisly slaying of four college students.”

“..these efforts, experts say, can drain investigative resources, complicate future jury selection, encourage false confessions and bring unwanted - perhaps even dangerous - public scrutiny on innocent residents.”

We should do everything possible to not be part of the problem.

"In the absence of more concrete details from investigators, armchair detectives and internet sleuths have begun sharing their own theories ...

Moscow's police department warned that "speculation without factual backing" has stoked "community fears" and led to false facts being spread."

BBC

 

[Dysfunkshun]

I am a little super freaky when it comes to personal safety, but when I have to use my name for deliveries and / or in public places, I use a nickname so that if someone uses it later, I know that they don't actually know me. odd, but if someone rings my place and uses that name and I haven't ordered anything, I feel free to say that. and just did a few weeks ago. so it's a good tip. if I'm not sure, I ask what the order is - specifically the sender. I'm not buzzing in a random person with a maybe package. this is jmo about one way to be safe and cautious.

I like that tip. I do the same- if it’s a place I don’t go often, I’ll make up a name.

 

[10ofRods]

So, do they not release profiles based on actual evidence anymore? Its only for law enforcement?

Also, thanks for the response! Everything is all over the place and a lot to keep up with!

In my experience, it is rare to release actual profile material while an investigation is ongoing. I will even go so far as to say that there were scrupulous rules in place about who even got to see initial profiles or ongoing updates (I was helping in profiling - I could talk to no one except 2 specific people - who then had me leave the room while they discussed the profile).

I was not privy to what other profilers had to say about the same crimes, but LE had its own expert who did that coordination and overall summation work.

Later, of course, I learned that all of us working on this situation (including a Ph.D. in psychometry who was really good with testing the various suspects) had very similar views, although I didn't even know what crime was involved, precisely, when I was called in.

what does he mean by "They're mad." Who is they? This sounds a little like word salad... Any chance K&M were on the 2nd floor too? (No one has said that from the 3rd floor , you cannot hear noise on the second floor. BTW.)

When we read transcripts of things that were spoken out loud to a particular person, it often sounds word salady. Hand gestures, facial expressions are crucial in interpreting spoken pronouns. This wasn't a written speech, is my understand.

That being said, I cannot tell who is mad in this example - and a good interviewer would realize that and try to help us clarify.