ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow #3

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dlgq

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Been wondering the same. The unconscious report is odd since they were all in their beds presumably blood everywhere that seems hard to mistake. Unless it was just scanner talk.
More than likely scanner talk. We are connected to police and ems frequencies as part of my job. It is always "unconscious. Not breathing/agonal breathing/ cold and stiff." Never dead.
 

webraccoon2234

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Interesting seeing local journalists are frustrated with the coroner being on MSM evening news answering questions that they’ve been answering all week and have gotten a “can’t say” response to. One of the questions was if they were all found in bed and the coroner replied “yes” on MSM last night but previously said she could not say.

 
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NoseyRecluse

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Quick question about the dog. Was the dog present at the scene? I saw someone post around on page 10 about perhaps the sliding door was left open for the dog. If the dog was home, wouldn't it have alerted to the stranger in the house? Unless it was in the room with one of the survivors - but still, my dog barks even when he can't see what he's barking at - he just hears a noise. Or, did the killer give the dog food to distract him/her? Or was the killer known to the dog?

JMO/speculation
 

DeDee

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I've had to skip or scan through so many pages bc -- this one hurts. Who could have committed this horrendous crime? One can only imagine the "gruesome" scenes.

If the killer entered through the sliding door, I can testify that it is not difficult to enter a locked sliding door if only the latch is in the locked position.

There is a stainless pin that should be inserted at the top and a metal bar that should lean between the inside door frame and the door frame to keep one from opening. For safety, all three locks should be in place, ideally.

This anon, whose face is not shown, entered a sliding door within mere seconds with little noise.

 

Oregonmama

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Quick question about the dog. Was the dog present at the scene? I saw someone post around on page 10 about perhaps the sliding door was left open for the dog. If the dog was home, wouldn't it have alerted to the stranger in the house? Unless it was in the room with one of the survivors - but still, my dog barks even when he can't see what he's barking at - he just hears a noise. Or, did the killer give the dog food to distract him/her? Or was the killer known to the dog?

JMO/speculation
Looks like the dog was there if Kaylee let it out to go potty and the dog was probably use to seeing a lot of ppl come over so perhaps it didn't bark. Or it hid somewhere because it was scared, JMO
 

GDawg89

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Thank you for this detailed information.
I too have wondered if he slipped in masked, dressed in PPE and whoever first encountered him thought it was a joke of some sort and that’s how he was able to disorient them as he gave orders or simply stabbed one, possibly Ethan, before the torture began. As a couple in one room or possibly awake, perhaps they were the first victims.
The Botanical Garden and adjoining area by the house looks fairly extensive. Do we have a local member who could fill us in on that terrain? Is it dense vegetation or have bike paths? Is there a pond or lake where PPE could be disposed of?
I am so sorry for the families of the precious young victims. The cruelty is unfathomable.
There is a couple small ponds in the Botanical garden, appears to be dense vegetation between crime scene and Botanical garden/University Golf Course per Google Earth aerial. I mentioned earlier thread and I would have to guess and HOPE that LE has searched this area extensively with dogs and dive team. AMOO
 

Angelwatch

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SleepySleuth —I agree. I think they’re totally innocent and are going to be scarred for the rest of their lives. Also, theoretically speaking, they may have made it a habit to lock their door while they slept and that could have been enough to keep him away, slept with earbuds in (my sis sleeps with a white noise machine), or it was dark in the house and it seems to have a weird layout so he really may not have known they were even there. I couldn’t imagine what they’re going through. :(

My daughter is college aged and has lived with 6+ girls, with multiple bedrooms on each floor. Whenever we’ve moved her in, we’ve installed a strong keyed door lock on her bedroom even though she felt it was unnecessary. With so many people coming and going, we insisted.

The investigators likely know if the suspect went downstairs and tried their doors. Suspect would leave blood trail assuming he went to 2nd or 3rd floor first. Also, would know whether the basement bedrooms were locked. Pure speculation, that may be why they say “targeted,” although that would overlook a few other scenarios.

My heart goes out to the two survivors. This is a massive traumatic event. I can’t imagine how’ll they’ll ever feel safe sleeping again. Hopefully they’ll have access to therapy and other funds. A friend of mine who was a crime survivor was provided two trained German Shepard dogs for free and that really helped her feel safe in her home.
 

urban gardener

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Quick question about the dog. Was the dog present at the scene? I saw someone post around on page 10 about perhaps the sliding door was left open for the dog. If the dog was home, wouldn't it have alerted to the stranger in the house? Unless it was in the room with one of the survivors - but still, my dog barks even when he can't see what he's barking at - he just hears a noise. Or, did the killer give the dog food to distract him/her? Or was the killer known to the dog?

JMO/speculation

You’d think, but - I have a very barky dog. Sound in the hallway? Bark. Delivery guy? Bark.

An intruder broke into my house last year - not a single sound. I woke up to the voice of the woman talking high pitched and quietly to her.

Got into a physical altercation. Silent.

I still don’t get it.
 

GDawg89

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There is not dense vegetation near this house. It is surrounded by other converted houses and apartments buildings, pretty much all of it is off campus housing for students. The campus itself is very close though. If you look at Google street view you can get a feel for it. The main road, Taylor, that Queen and King are off of, runs along the back of Greek row, including Sigma Chi, the male victim's fraternity house. The arboretum is about a half a mile away.

I lived on Taylor as a UI student. I knew so many people who lived within about a half a block. There was always so much activity in this area.
@ huskyvandal, correction on my post, NOT dense vegetation, it appears to be trees between there and the Gardens/Golf course.
 

Allabouttrial

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I don't think on-line phone records are "LIVE" - I think you can see all the numbers called but only after a bill is crated. But what do I know.. I believe what she says now that she somehow knows she called multiple times during a short like 14 minute period.

Something terrible was up.

You don't call someone repeatedly unless there is an emergency or other conflict going on.
So you try ringing a boy 6 times instead of calling 911? Doesn't make sense.
 

journey9tails

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I would guess that's possible because a few years ago, some local teens were killed in a terrible car accident and one of the teen's sisters posted a pic of her touching her dead sister's hand, and there were two bruises on the hand.
Tearing and bruising on a body stabbed with a large knife multiple times does not prove active defense.

A few findings from a 2013 study:

Injuries to upper limbs are the most common defensive injuries. Defensive injuries are more common in male victims than female victims, but the age 15-29 cohort of female victims was the most common cohort (male or female) to have defensive wounds.

More interesting info in the article: Redirecting
 

Jscre

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How would her sister know who she called unless she actually called her.. .or had her cell phone? Doesn't make sense to me that the sister would know this unless tried to call her.
The person she was calling would have that info....and I assume her sister has communicated with this person since that morning.
 

sleepysleuth

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I don't think on-line phone records are "LIVE" - I think you can see all the numbers called but only after a bill is crated. But what do I know.. I believe what she says now that she somehow knows she called multiple times during a short like 14 minute period.

Something terrible was up.

You don't call someone repeatedly unless there is an emergency or other conflict going on.
I think this might depend on the carrier - I can see Verizon calls nearly in real time. See attachment from my personal phone records that I just took. I didn't take a screenshot of the numbers or location for privacy purposes, but all of that data is included in my call log. I can see this information for every phone number associated with my account.
 

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girlhasnoname

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Regarding the Latah County Coroner and Banfield’s interview-would she be the person that was on scene and ultimately transported? I am trying to decide if her statement that they were all in bed is accurate and firsthand based on the crime, or based on evidence during autopsy. I don’t know whether she is permitted to divulge details, or if they are correct.
She was on the scene and the bodies were transported elsewhere for autopsies. IIRC
 

Quim The Extraordinaire

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*This post is purely conjecture regarding the psychology of and the type of person that could harm others in the way these poor kids were murdered if it was by a serial killer sub-type. I think it’s important to talk about and identify how/why this happens and the differences between motives behind these types of crimes which is what profilers do when looking for a perpetrator of violent crime.

As I write this I am assuming, for arguments sake, that this person was mostly unknown to the group and had no link to the Greek life because IMO, they did not know the layout of the house because if they did, I also believe there would have been 6 victims instead of 4. If this person was familiar at all with the victims, common sense tells me it would have been common knowledge to easily know how many roommates lived there and where to find them sleeping in their beds.

I do not think any one of the victims was specifically targeted per se because why risk trying to kill 4-6 other people when there was only one target?

And since we’ve broached the subject of contemplating what type of killing this was; i.e. Personal, Random, a mix of both, organized, disorganized, high IQ, low IQ, etc… Right now, with the evidence we have, I posit the theory he is (I will use the pronoun “he” because statistically speaking and by the sheer force and stamina it would take, “he” is most likely the correct description) a Thrill Killer, which is a serial killer subtype: Psychology research states they literally kill for the stalking, hunting, and the sheer act of it and are the least common type because there’s usually no rhyme or reason for their abhorrent and inhumane actions. They’re also (depending on how disorganized they are) more difficult to catch because of the randomness of their behavior.

Thrill killers are different from mass murderers (who aren’t considered a subtype), traditional serial killers, and “mission oriented” serial killers.

Here’s some interesting information I found regarding serial killer subtypes:

All JMO.

Many great posts and welcome to new posters.

@slanda, Thank you for the link.

I tend to lean toward the killer being somehow acquainted with one or more victims but am not wedded to that perspective. It sure seems likely to me that if there wasn’t a singular victim that there was a victim type that he (I suspect solo male) sought.

I wonder if there can be mixed subtypes or crossovers?

I totally agree with you on this one . I have a feeling it may have been a thrill kill . Just the fact that they went into the rooms and stabbed them all in the chest with no indication of anything sexual and no indication of burglary makes it seem like that is a strong possibility. Also, as mentioned before , the fact that the others were spared seems like a lack of Knowledge that they were downstairs . I feel with so many police officers and fbi investigators on the case and how high profile this is now that if it was someone close to them they would already atleast have a person of interest . Also, great article you linked !super interesting !

Thank you for additional food for thought, @Star_crossed.

Do we know there was no sexual assault?

If what the coroner says is true that they were all found in their beds, it’s throwing me for a loop. I previously thought one or two were the intended targets and the other were killed because they were still awake or had woken up during the attack. But it sounds like maybe all were sleeping when it happened, which would mean all 4 were targeted for death. I’m sure there could be, but I’m having a hard time imagining a scenario where all 4 of them were the intended targets. It seems possible that they were all killed indiscriminately, which could point to someone unknown to all of them, someone who wanted to kill just to kill.

IMO

Edit: I understand statistics don’t point toward this type of scenario, but there’s always that small percentage that defy norms.

@emerald123, good thinking.

I suspect the killer entered with the expectation of killing everyone inside regardless of whether he had an intended and personal target or a more general victim type. Hopefully the killer will be brought to justice soon and we will learn more about the motivation (though sometimes motivations are muddled for killers themselves).

All JMO.
 

Allabouttrial

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It doesn't mean she felt in danger at the time. She was drinking prior and wanted to talk to him possibly. Wouldn't be unusual for a college student to do this who is in love or was in love with that person.
I agree. She was more than likely just drunk dialling. Been there done that. Cringe.
 

BelieveinUFO

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So you try ringing a boy 6 times instead of calling 911? Doesn't make sense.
That only means there was no foreseeable threat to life at that moment or do we even know whether the call was made by the victim or was it by prep to cause a distraction - which in this case would mean the prep knows the victim(s)
 
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