ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 5

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NWguy22

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Kaylee’s mother has said she called ex-boyfriend J. Did not say much about the calls other than Kaylee wanted J to come over and made some appeal to him about them having a dog together. I don’t know if this info was in voice messages she has heard personally or whether the info was relayed to her. Also don’t know if Kaylee spoke with J directly or left voice messages or both. That was not specified in the Fox interview I saw.
I believe she was talking about a different time, when she was back at home before returning to Moscow, when she made the appeal about the dog
 

margarita25

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In this case we have a family member who's pissed off (rightfully) and trying to expedite justice. Under this site's TOS, we can't talk about anything she says unless it's through a national media outlet. That's F'd. She, and the other victim's families know more than you me and everyone else on here but unless it's stamped by DM, CNN, or FoxNews types...it's off limits. That's F'd in 2022. Time to evolve.

I’m behind so not familiar with the grievance mentioned.

I/we can’t even begin to imagine how frustrated, and everything else, families feel in cases likes this, and of course this case can not be solved quickly enough, and this goes for LE too. But LE has to have a chance to do their jobs. We are not even a week in. They are there out there full force 24/7 with every agency assisting, including BAU which is a TREAT. Again, I’m not sure exactly what frustrations are being cited, and they may be legitimate, and again there’s stuff I’m behind on, but my point is these things take time and it’s really hard for the families understandably, but the real world of law enforcement is not TV CSI case getting solved in an hour. It’s a terrible place for the families to be and my heart goes out to them. I’d probably be screaming to the hills. But ask the Patty family, and so many other families, this is not going to happen overnight. It takes time to do sooo many different things.

—-

As for can’t talk about it unless it’s through a media outlet, there are very important reasons for this, too many to go into at this time. Rumors fly like crazy, innocent people get hurt, facts get skewed...the list goes on.
 
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PorcelainCoveredInTinFoil

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Random thought:



That CC side-chick-thing in Kelsey Berreth's case stopped at Sonic after that atrocity.



Lori Cox (she's not a Vallow or Daybell, imo) took kids to Burger King after the atrocity with Charles.



There's another case where an atrocity happened and the perp's first stop afterwards was at a McDonald's. I cannot, for the life of me, remember which case it was; where it was or who was involved.



Heck, even Darrell Brooks got a sandwhich from a good samaritan after his stupidity.



But, some cases make me ask 'what is it with eating afterwards?! How?! committing these heinous acts builds an appetite for quick, hot, junk food?! Hm, interesting. Maybe part of a pattern inside that type of mindset is hunger after an atrocity?



Moscow, ID, a small town I've never heard of leads me to say not too many quick hot drive-thru places open at 4-5am. So, a list of possible stops would be smaller vs a big metropolis.



The point I'm trying to reach: it would not suprise me one bit if the perp is on camera swiping a card (time-stamping his own stupidty) while in a drive-thru picking up food immediately after the atrocity, likely within a few miles of the site.



This is me projecting info from other cases onto this one, admittedly. But, I've read that timeline in multiple cases so much so I'd be more surprised if there is NOT footage of the perp sitting in a drive-thru waiting for food after this atrocity occured.



#checkthefastfoodlines


ETA: Nick Cruz went to Suway, got a drink. Then, he went and SAT at a McD's - don't think he ate from either place? While that's one more for the list/pattern it's still not the one on the tip of my brain. If anyone else can think of such a situation in another case, help a Porcelain out, 'cause now it's gonna bug me which case it was.
 
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late1

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Not the interview I'm looking for, but an important one...

Family of Moscow homicide victim continues to speak out

Wow this interview with Kaylee’s mom and sister was very powerful. That they feel they can’t mourn properly until this is solved.
And their timeline agrees with mine! If it is true, that's good, accuracy is important in an investigation. If it is true, that is bad and it increases my frustration with the PD for putting out the wrong times, repeatedly. Again and again. I am a big supporter of LE, but this is amateur hour combined with a whiff of "we know what we are doing." IMO

I really hope they aren't basing inclusion and connection of sightings and digital and video events based on their timelines! What a mess that would be in the modern world where events are calibrated by the second or less. It would create a delayed arrest and reasonable doubt at the same time.

You can hear the frustration in their voices, trying to be respectful while wondering why LE is not listening. IMO
 

margarita25

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That's why I'm wondering if it was some sort of professional (or semi-professional) hit....

And that’s why I also wonder about the perp being totally intoxicated. Again, not all killers commit these crimes under the influence, but I really wonder about PCP or meth-induced psychosis, severe alcohol influence, etc. But who knows. Maybe not. Plenty of mass killers are 100 percent sober when they do things like this.

Lots of maybes. As I said before, imo everything is on the table from stranger to known and everything in between. I am not confident or even close to confident on any theory yet. Still collecting data.
 
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Zinn

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I believe she was talking about a different time, when she was back at home before returning to Moscow, when she made the appeal about the dog
We might be referring to different interviews, I’m not sure. I went back and listened and it sounds to me like Kaylee’s dad says this:

One of her messages, one of her last messages, she reached out to J (he used name but I am using initial) and said “J, get back to me” and at the end she goes “We share a dog together,” which they did. She’s like “You need to reach out to me” so-

Then the mother breaks in and adds:

“Please come over.” She was wanting J to come over.

I’ll try to link the clip. This part of the conversation begins at around 7:30.

 

AngTxGal

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Universities are big business. The victims were students. If this is going to impact the university, the state government may have made some phone calls to bring in other assets? (Just my thoughts.)
It took a very fearless killer to enter a home with six adults, one a large strong male, and a dog!
What I am saying is why is a that Team who specializes in those very extreme threats involved?
It is not normal, IMO.
That is telling IMO
It makes zero sense that help arrived on scene and none of them went inside.
Police are supposed to go in to be sure no danger remains.
EMTs follow police when they get the all clear, so they can render aid.
How can either of those things happen if they remain outside? They had no idea if the perp was still inside or that all were deceased- if they did not enter.
 

Sheila Terranova

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It took a very fearless killer to enter a home with six adults, one a large strong male, and a dog!
I feel the opposite. He is a complete spineless coward to walk in under the cover of darkness and with a gigantic knife stab two little girls sound asleep in their beds. The others I assume were his collateral damage and a surprise. Wasn’t the dog a golden doodle? I have a half golden doodle. She’d welcome anyone joyfully to c’mon in. This man is a loathsome cowardly creep. I’d like to see him try snd take on a man of his size equally armed awake and in broad daylight. He has no conscience. No sense of decency. No remorse. He will never turn himself in. The police will find him eventually and God bless each and every officer for protecting everyone else in town by hauling him in. Imho. Moo. Etc.
 

GRT

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We might be referring to different interviews, I’m not sure. I went back and listened and it sounds to me like Kaylee’s dad says this:

One of her messages, one of her last messages, she reached out to J (he used name but I am using initial) and said “J, get back to me” and at the end she goes “We share a dog together,” which they did. She’s like “You need to reach out to me” so-

Then the mother breaks in and adds:

“Please come over.” She was wanting J to come over.


I’ll try to link the clip. This part of the conversation begins at around 7:30.



Is it possible LE told her to say that?
 

AngTxGal

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I feel the opposite. He is a complete spineless coward to walk in under the cover of darkness and with a gigantic knife stab two little girls sound asleep in their beds. The others I assume were his collateral damage and a surprise. Wasn’t the dog a golden doodle? I have a half golden doodle. She’d welcome anyone joyfully to c’mon in. This man is a loathsome cowardly creep. I’d like to see him try snd take on a man of his size equally armed awake and in broad daylight. He has no conscience. No sense of decency. No remorse. He will never turn himself in. The police will find him eventually and God bless each and every officer for protecting everyone else in town by hauling him in. Imho. Moo. Etc.
I wonder the gun laws where these girls were living or their gun politics.
This was not school owned housing, these girls could have had a gun for protection and blown him away. How did this guy know he would not encounter a male or gun?
Idaho does have the death penalty, this is a case where it is warranted.
 

Bliss_Perth

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Sorry if this has been missed or spoken about. What are peoples thoughts on the kitchen stools that are seen jammed together to obstruct entry into the kitchen sliding door?
 

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SkyeBerry

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Random thought:



That CC side-chick-thing in Kelsey Berreth's case stopped at Sonic after that atrocity.



Lori Cox (she's not a Vallow or Daybell, imo) took kids to Burger King after the atrocity with Charles.



There's another case where an atrocity happened and the perp's first stop afterwards was at a McDonald's. I cannot, for the life of me, remember which case it was; where it was or who was involved.



Heck, even Darrell Brooks got a sandwhich from a good samaritan after his stupidity.



But, some cases make me ask 'what is it with eating afterwards?! How?! committing these heinous acts builds an appetite for quick, hot, junk food?! Hm, interesting. Maybe part of a pattern inside that type of mindset is hunger after an atrocity?



Moscow, ID, a small town I've never heard of leads me to say not too many quick hot drive-thru places open at 4-5am. So, a list of possible stops would be smaller vs a big metropolis.



The point I'm trying to reach: it would not suprise me one bit if the perp is on camera swiping a card (time-stamping his own stupidty) while in a drive-thru picking up food immediately after the atrocity, likely within a few miles of the site.



This is me projecting info from other cases onto this one, admittedly. But, I've read that timeline in multiple cases so much so I'd be more surprised if there is NOT footage of the perp sitting in a drive-thru waiting for food after this atrocity occured.



#checkthefastfoodlines


ETA: Nick Cruz went to Suway, got a drink. Then, he went and SAT at a McD's - don't think he ate from either place? While that's one more for the list/pattern it's still not the one on the tip of my brain. If anyone else can think of such a situation in another case, help a Porcelain out, 'cause now it's gonna bug me which case it was.
IME there is no where open for food that time of night in Moscow. Most fast food restaurants aren't open past midnight, maybe 1am. The bagel joint right across the street from grub truck used to be open till 1 or 2am pre-covid but now it closes at 9 or 10.

This is a great idea though! The only places open so late on the Palouse would be Walmart & Winco, 24 hr grocery store in Moscow, and also the Walmart in Pullman. There are a handful of 24 hr gas stations in the area as well. Probably around 4 in Moscow and 1-2 in Pullman.
 
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SouthAussie

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<modsnip - no link to an approved source>

There is a tip line and a tip email address.

Probably way too soon for a reward to be offered when the police are still gathering and reviewing all of the relevant data records, phone records, CCTV, phone tower records, and waiting for other forensic results. They are likely developing (and following up) a POI list. imo


Police are searching for leads and urge anyone who saw "suspicious behavior, has video surveillance, or can provide relevant information" to call the tip line at 208-883-7180 or email [email protected].

 
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margarita25

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My list of possible crime scenarios. MOO
Rsbm
3. Enraged incel that may have had a passing interaction with one or more of the household residents.
Rsbm

“Passing interaction,” good way of putting it, key words, imo Possible incel too, but this is why I said imo perp could be “stranger to known and everything in between”.

Neighbors also often make their way into these cases.
 
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Finders_Keepers

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The more that comes out on this I think the more the stranger/stalker case becomes feasible.

I’d question at this stage being the fact all of these individuals digital footprints will have been heavily scrutinised that there is any sign of ongoing conflict, animosity etc… some kind of back story that might at least mean the police have a Lead or POI of that explanation.

Likewise I don’t believe it was a spur of the moment crime of passion. If it had been a kitchen knife yes, you could see how an argument could escalate there but a combat knife is someone who turned up already equipped to kill.

I don’t believe it’s a crime of opportunity as it doesn’t tick any boxes. The two individuals we know about who could have committed one have been ruled out and the combat knife, multiple victims, hatred it was carried out with don’t suggest it. Plus no apparent sign of a sexual assault motive.

So to me there are two potentials. Something happened between 1.45 and 2.30. Aaltercation in the house with someone they knew. They have left, equipped and come back and committed the crime after 3 AM. I think the girls were almost certainly together until then as the call logs (if accurate) suggest they were calling almost to the minute from each other’s phones.

But I’m not convinced. Would a major argument/fight not have bought up the other housemates. Depending how bad it was would they not have called the police (if threats were issued), would they have not have had adrenaline going and not been potentially asleep around 3, how did the person get back in the house (surely after that all doors would be locked), and ultimately would one single argument be enough to lead someone to leave, arm with a combat knife, and come back and cause thr level of carnage. If they had been harbouring a deep level of hatred would there not be evidence of that through digital footprints.

The only alternative to that is, to me stranger/stalker, where nothing was untoward when they went to bed but something happened between 3/6 (which is the time the police are now giving) when they were killed in their beds.

The fact the police haven’t mentioned 1.45-3 as a time of interest for CcTv etc also makes me think they don’t believe a fight in the house during that time and someone coming back armed after to kill is a potential.

And again I can’t get the thought someone they knew would just turn up with a weapon intent to kill unless the police would see the signs of animosity and conflict through a digital footprint
 
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