ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 5

[GMG1999]

I can’t even begin to imagine what the scene entailed, nor do i want to do so. I know that Moscow, Idaho isn’t exactly murder central and that some of the authorities working the scene and making these statements aren’t used to seeing shocking murders on a frequent basis. But these are still lawmen who have had (presumably) long careers and have worked murder scenes before. The FBI agents there have definitely seen some horror shows in their day as well. And when these people are making statements about this particular scene being unlike anything you will see again in the future, it just defies logic and belief what must have happened inside. I was thinking sights of arterial spray, pools and streaks of blood, etc., but it sounds even worse than that.

And it boggles the mind that this level of savagery was inflicted on college kids. You think of organized crime hits, drug gang murders, or maybe the random one-off psychotic killer murder as containing the level of brutality that was apparently present here. What could ANY of those kids ever done to evoke that level of rage inside anyone they were acquainted with? I mean, to leave a crime scene that gory and unbelievable, a person would almost have to be on a whole other level of psychotic and angry than even your average spree or revenge killer. The whole thing is not only incredibly sad and tragic, but just unbelievable from a pure humanity standpoint.

This is the part that just blows my mind. I just don't get what would have made someone so angry for this to have had such a horrible crime scene.

 

[bitethehand]

I'm new here. Hello.

With each tidbit that comes out, and of course there is so much more we don't know, it seems a scenario of an anonymous stalker/attacker remains plausible, which is unusual a week after the crimes are committed. It could still be a deranged wannabe <modsnip> bf, of course, or an argument with a violent individual gone haywire, but the serial killer angle is still possible. And it also seems this explanation might fit the contradictory facts better than conventional explanations. IMO MOO.

 

[Garshin]

@Garshin​

Really appreciate your floor plans! Re-posting your drawings in case anyone missed them. Very helpful in visualizing the layout. A question: should the bathroom on the third floor be more towards the middle?

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Idaho murders: Inside the off-campus house where 4 students were killed

Idaho students were killed on Nov. 13 is a three-story, six-bedroom, three-bath, single-family home with three doors.

www.foxnews.com

As far as I know, no. I said I based my floorplan on the crude drawing of the property owner but the way they drew the third floor makes zero sense so I mostly used the zillow pictures as well as the exterior photos. I tried many times to figure out a layout based on that third floor drawing and could not come up with anything. The drawing would place the bathroom on the wall where the deck is but that is impossible IMO. The reason I know the layout is very close to what I have is because you can see the spindles of the deck railing from bedroom #5 window (zillow picture 8), the window above the stairs (zillow picture 11) and from bedroom #6 (zillow picture 9 and 10). There are some blind spots on zillow that I had to guess. For instance the third floor closet may very well not exist and the pantry on the second floor may be under the stairs. I can only say that this other floorplan which I had absolutely nothing to do with came to the same conclusion (the perspective is from the back of the house however). I could still be completely wrong of course.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

I recollect reading there’d been an alcohol incident involving the 911 at 3 am on Taylor’s ave

How many social media sites did these teenagers use ? Has each and every one been checked?

MPD Press Log 11/13/2022

www.ci.moscow.id.us

 

[rsd1200]

@Garshin posted this on the last thread. I couldn't figure out how to carry it forward. (and want to respond)

Here is another floorplan I found elsewhere. This matches with my previous attempt but I think is much cleaner and proportional than mine. The red numbers and camera icons still match up with the zillow listing. One thing to note is that the perspective is flipped from mine but the layout is the same (these being viewed from the back of the house where mine was from the front). The only thing I'm unsure about is the location of Xana's and Ethan's bedroom. If it is located where this particular floorplan says it is it confuses things quite a bit IMO.

Zillow: 1122 King Rd, Moscow, ID 83843 | Zillow

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THIS layout (of bedrooms is my understanding)

These are very helpful. I've looked at this house six ways from Sunday and it is very confusing from the exterior and even from the realtor's sites. I think I counted at least three maybe four sliding doors. Two in back it appears. sliding windows. Lots of areas for the perp to hide in, and around, and watch and wait. I've looked at the site you linked, and, there are maybe a couple of different pics on Trulia if anyone wants to check it out. I'm still leaning toward revenge killing.

 

[uburoi1]

This is the part that just blows my mind. I just don't get what would have made someone so angry for this to have had such a horrible crime scene.

Why do people murder? Jealousy, money, revenge, power.

 

[William Goat]

That's a good point. But, given the awful scene, how did they not emphasize the severity? It seems like it was conveyed as an unconscious person? Also, how did they not investigate further and check on their roommates? I think I would feel compelled to look further, but maybe not.

I still think it's hard to say. A lot of posters have said that may have been what the dispatcher conveyed to the responding officers. I just don't see some college kid conveying just unconscious to police, shock or not. You have to assume that even if whomever victim was they saw, there would have been a lot of blood. Even if they had been face down and had been stabbed in the chest (as has been reported) you would definitely notice. You would say something about it irregardless of the shock during your time on the phone with dispatch until the police arrived. No kid called 911 and called the person unconscious though. It's just not what some kid would say.

I just think until we here it, we don't know shhh.

 

[diggndeeperstill]

I was watching this video and it truly hits home how horrible when you see they must put masks on to breathe thru before entering.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1594111597399920642

 

[Tippy Lynn]

As far as I know, no. I said I based my floorplan on the crude drawing of the property owner but the way they drew the third floor makes zero sense so I mostly used the zillow pictures as well as the exterior photos. I tried many times to figure out a layout based on that third floor drawing and could not come up with anything. The reason I know the layout is very close to what I have is because you can see the spindles of the deck railing from bedroom #5 window (zillow picture 8), the window above the stairs (zillow picture 11) and from bedroom #6 (zillow picture 9 and 10). There are some blind spots on zillow that I had to guess. For instance the third floor closet may very well not exist and the pantry on the second floor may be under the stairs. I can only say that this other floorplan which I had absolutely nothing to do with came to the same conclusion (the perspective is from the back of the house however). I could still be completely wrong of course.

The floor plan is discussed in this starting at 28:00 into the video.

 

[KaylynnCouture]

I find it odd that Kaylee & Madison called J multiple times but there were no text messages reported. When you’re desperately trying to reach someone and they don’t answer typically you send a text (“call me asap” or something to get their attention). It just seems odd that calls were placed from both numbers but no texts were reported.

 

[PingTheRouter]

I was watching this video and it truly hits home how horrible when you see they must put masks on to breathe thru before entering.

that video is very interesting, wearing booties.. a few of them have respirators

 

[MassGuy]

It was pretty clear to me that the cell phone that was used to call 911, was that of one of the surviving roommates. Moscow police just confirmed that by updating their previous post.

 

[otto]

The house was fully renovated back in 2018-2019.

I saw that on the county website. I looked for development plans, but did not request them. Apparently they are available to the public on request. That would provide us with the floor plans - which is helpful when there are four murders in one house where six people are sleeping, or almost asleep.

The renovation might have been on kitchen and bathroom upgrades. The first floor might have always been a suite.

Are there any other exits/entrances to the house? There's the first floor door, the second floor patio door in the kitchen. Is there a third door somewhere, other than the third floor patio door?

How did the culprit enter the house? Which bedroom on the second floor was occupied, which was the extra bedroom? Were the couple on the second floor murdered first because they woke up, or got up, when they heard the door at 3 AM ... when all the roommates were at home and in bed.

Thank you to Garshin for the floorplans.

 

[catchingcases]

Righto. This crime as we know so far is not in thise parameters. Does a potential exist for more mayhem?
What’s up?
So- IMO- it’s particularly alarming that they are there as the Unit exists and specializes in a very distinct kind of threat. Not typical, even for a multiple murder investigation.
I find the implications of that team’s involvement very concerning. Glad they're there; wouldn’t be unless a potentially unusual threat exists, IMO.

Ummm, my understanding of CIRG is completely different based on this...

What is the Critical Incident Response Group?​

The FBI’s Critical Incident Response Group (CIRG) provides rapid assistance to incidents in a crisis. Through CIRG, expert assistance is available in cases involving the abduction or mysterious disappearance of children, crisis management, hostage negotiation, criminal investigative analysis, and special weapons and tactics. CIRG also assists in the assessment, selection, and training of FBI undercover employees.

 

[Garshin]

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Were the survivors' bedrooms on the parking lot level? The one with the exterior door?

Yes is it assumed the survivors were in the basement/converted garage bedrooms 1 and 2. This would make the idea of them not hearing anything much more plausible IMO given the noise coming from the utility closet (where the furnace is) and potentially laundry room combined with the basement insulation as well as the overall distance from the other bedrooms.

 

[tokyorose]

It was pretty clear to me that the cell phone that was used to call 911, was that of one of the surviving roommates. Moscow police just confirmed that by updating their previous post.

That helps some..

 

[Lilibet]

wonder though how someone could see any of the victims and say it was an "unconscious person" when there was blood everywhere. Maybe we'll find that was a misquote of some sort but it's very strange how you can mistake a stabbing murder victim to someone who is just unconscious.

The 911 caller couldn’t have known the victims were actually dead for sure without getting up close and possibly taking their pulse. Wishful thinking might be the reason for saying “Unconscious.” And if the caller did say the person was dead, some of us would be asking suspiciously “How did they know?” “They must have been the murderer if they know they’re dead.”

JMO

LE not giving all the info about the 911 call and caller makes is sound suspicious. jmo

I think it sounds sensible if they know who made the call. It makes sense to me that LE would want to protect that person from scrutiny. Already I’ve seen it said here that the caller is the murderer!

JMO

 

[darlinikkisiks]

That's a good point. But, given the awful scene, how did they not emphasize the severity? It seems like it was conveyed as an unconscious person? Also, how did they not investigate further and check on their roommates? I think I would feel compelled to look further, but maybe not.

In my experience, 911 dispatchers are trained to keep the caller safe. They ask quick questions, like whether the person is breathing, bleeding, moving, etc., what else is happening at the scene, and that’s how they decide which type of support to send. “Unconscious person” was just what was entered to trigger EMS/police response because that’s all that could be known at that point. Whoever arrives on the scene first would make the call for air support if a victim needed to be flown to a hospital — or call for a coroner, sadly.

In a situation like this where there is a potentially a crime still occurring, they’re not going to encourage the caller to actively look for other victims at their own risk, or even begin lifesaving efforts like CPR. They’re going to tell them to get somewhere safe, stay on the line, and keep asking questions about what they see until help arrives.

I agree that it’s hard to imagine stumbling on a scene like this and responding in a way that seems so counterproductive, but it’s likely that whoever called 911 was instructed to do just that in an effort to preserve their own safety and the integrity of the crime scene.

 

[Sleuthchik7]

Just my thoughts and opinions after reading this thread in its entirety and feeling creeped out.

There’s been so much conflicting information. I think it was probably one of the survivors who called 911 although at first it was stated earlier it wasn’t.

I don’t think there was a Lockable door from the first to second floor. Wouldn’t make sense since the punch pad door in the front of the house was the main entrance and it sounds like everyone knew the code and walked right up. However it makes complete sense to me the two girls locked their doors. I’m sure they wouldn’t want a somebody coming in and mistaking their room for a living area or bathroom.

IMO Im confident someone came from the back of the house thru the brush and entered through the patio doors that probably weren’t even locked. I also think it possible when they left they did so from the upstairs balcony that doesn’t appear too high and would explain the lack of a blood trail any why LE was searching in the backyard. Then I’m guessing back thru the trees to wherever.

I really hope LE knows more than they are letting on. I’m creeped out by all this and I am far far away from it. Not surprised everyone left town.

Lastly I recall another poster saying it was such a busy weekend with football games too in addition to the other activities, my point being lots of out of town people visiting.

 

[otto]

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Were the survivors' bedrooms on the parking lot level? The one with the exterior door?

Yes. The survivors were found on the first floor. The upper two floor were bloody.