ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 7

[margarita25]

So, BAU is a big thing. They’ve got two BAU agents on this.

I remember waaay back in the day our late great @Foxfire used to talk about BAU, and iirc how he said there were only 13 or 14 in the whole country at that time...I’ll have to look those posts(s) up sometime, but my point is, I’m interested (but don’t really want to know as this is really scary imo) what BAU has so far right now for a profile based on the evidence they have seen so far. And not the standard “may have missed work on..., may have changed appearance, may been closely following the case, may have increased alcohol and drug used, may have skipped town, etc...”, I mean specific.

This is all so dark and I like others said am definitely going to need to step away, but some final notes from me for a while, my thoughts lie in the crazy map shapes I posted about above and how this might possibly relate to the killer’s potential awareness space, ( Reference: Jessica Ridgeway: Killer’s ‘awareness space’ may lead to clues - Boulder Weekly - October 18, 2012), and thoughts about what BAU’s thinking right now.

 

[diggndeeperstill]

With apologies to @Neptune I am going to copy / paste his post to answer your question. It is in the last thread so this will make it more visual.

ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 6

What concerns me is - how many people were actually in that house before LE got there? You then have EMS, LE and god knows who else tramping through there. Must be CSI's worst nightmare. Sounds like Jon Benet...

www.websleuths.com

Neptune said:
(It's been many years since I've been on WS - but this case is so perplexing and sad that I had to comment. My interest and posts are always related to geography and time of crime.)

At the press conference today 11.20.22, LE remarked that they are focused on the area "South of Taylor Avenue to Palouse River Drive" and "West of Highway 95". This area is South of the crime scene.

The following coordinates can be referenced on Google Earth (note: Google Earth, not Google Maps) - just cut and paste in the search bar. I'm only suggesting a possible exit path - I don't know this area at all personally.

To me, the LE reference suggests maybe they believe the perpetrator's path of egress was out the back area of the house (located at 1122 King Rd - 46°43'18.91"N, 117° 0'38.78"W) as opposed to down King Road or East of the house. There are many structures with windows and potential cameras around the King Road house - I'd think the perp would have been aware of that and chose the safest way out. The area with the least visibility seems to be the forested area behind the house. Even though there are fences enclosing adjacent properties, the fences appear to be scalable. The forested area abuts Walenta Drive at various points:
46°43'17.56"N, 117° 0'42.19"W
46°43'17.16"N, 117° 0'40.94"W
46°43'16.63"N, 117° 0'39.97"W

The house located on Walenta at 46°43'17.16"N, 117° 0'39.94"W seems critical to ask if there are cameras. Up the hill from this area about 65 yards is where Walenta Dr. intersects with Ridge Road - from this intersection there is a footpath about 20 yards away (46°43'14.91"N, 117° 0'39.02"W). The path heads South and has several sets of stairs and is about 110 yards long, ending at a cul-de-sac called Shetland Court. This looks like a public access path (not locked) - but I can't find anything online. If it's an open path for walking, could there be evidence in that area (it looks surrounded by trees)? Is it possible the perp could have taken this path and parked a car at the bottom (46°43'12.29"N 117° 0'38.88"W)? My guess is it would have taken less than 10 mins from the crime scene to get to that place. Also Shetland Court leads to Colt Rd, which leads to Conestoga Dr, which leads to Palouse River Drive on the edge of town. Easy exit out of town.

Sorry, I'm not sure what the connection to the cul-de-sac is? Why do we think the suspect was headed to the cul-de-sac?

 

[nightowl2728]

So, BAU is a big thing. In today’s PC he said they’ve two BAU agents on this.

I remember waaay back in the day our late great @Foxfire used to talk about it, and iirc how there were only 13 or 14 in the whole country...I’ll have to look that posts(s) up sometime, but my point is, I’m interested (but don’t really want to know) what BAU’s got right now for a profile. And not the standard “may have missed work on...,” may have changed appearance, may been closely following the case, may have increased alcohol and drug used, etc, I mean specific.

This is all so dark and I like others said are definitely goi; to need to step away, but some final notes from me for a while, my main focus interest is the crazy map notes I posted above with the triangles, squares, circles and whatever shapes, and thoughts about what BAU’s thinking.

Impossible for something like this to not be dark... Not possible to look at it from just a sleuthing perspective, because it's real people and incredibly tragic. Which is why I tend to not go on these type of sites, because it's really too disturbing. I wish you the best stepping away for a bit!

 

[FruitTingles]

Have we considered that this suspect could be deceased now? By his/her own actions? JMO.

 

[HavenWood]

One thing I have noticed is how many trees/bushes in the immediate area. If the suspect was on foot, it would be quite easy to stay reasonably well hidden.
Again, I don't know the area, but zooming in on google maps, I was thinking that the suspect could have taken either of the three routes (on foot) that I have marked.

 

[Questions123]

I just watched the 2nd presser and that police chief had broken out in hives by the end those journos had some questions he clearly didnt want to answer for fear of slipping up and giving away confidential info imo.

I do however find it odd that the 2 surviving roomates got home at 1am and a call was not placed until 11.58am drunk or not that's a massive time lapse. The police chief said he cannot explain how they didnt wake why didnt he just say they passed out he never said that why is everyone assuming they were blind drunk when 1am isnt that late and K&M were home later and didnt appear extremely drunk from video footage at the food truck. How did they both in separate rooms in the basement wake up at the exact same time and no one needed to go to level 2 where the kitchen was located slightly earlier for some water if they were so hungover because they had a massive night and slept through 4x murders? This imo is not random at all. The killer has been in that house before to navigate it in the dark and the reason those 2 girls survived in the basement is they were simply not the target. It makes me think the 2 girls up on level 3 K or M were the target but they had to go thru Ethan and Xana to get to them or 1 of them heard a noise and contronted the killer briefly. Also perhaps the poi (police chief won't disclose if they have one just said no suspect in custody) has been to the house so many times they can explain trace DNA as a frequent visitor. If killer wore thick gloves perhaps there were no bloody fingerprints left behind period. I really hope LE can get a breakthrough soon for the grieving families.

 

[Foxy_the_Cat]

Edited to add my opinion — I can’t imagine the guilt he’s feeling

My guess is that emotion is what the mom's statement was meant to bring out.

 

[MiamiSolver]

Have we considered that this suspect could be deceased now? By his/her own actions? JMO.

I just had this same thought to myself. If they decided to go out that way, i think it’s possible this goes unsolved. It really would be a shame

 

[GGbankster]

I think you bring up all good points and could very well be right. It’s just kind of odd to me to only truly be after 1 person but kill 3 others with a knife, you know?

If perp wanted to stab one of them (vicious and personal) but had to prepare for witnesses, they could’ve obtained a gun with silencer. I realize they may have felt “rushed” as in their target was only in town for a short period of time but even so I think getting a gun still could’ve been doable…or maybe not, maybe they really were just angry and impulsive and didn’t meticulously plan this and had to just take out 3 possible witnesses with the knife they had, I could be wrong.

Maybe this was planned and a knife would have been a quieter weapon. If he had use a gun, it will make a loud noise that neighbors may wake up from it thus making it difficult to leave undetected.

 

[MiamiSolver]

I think you bring up all good points and could very well be right. It’s just kind of odd to me to only truly be after 1 person but kill 3 others with a knife, you know?

If perp wanted to stab one of them (vicious and personal) but had to prepare for witnesses, they could’ve obtained a gun with silencer. I realize they may have felt “rushed” as in their target was only in town for a short period of time but even so I think getting a gun still could’ve been doable…or maybe not, maybe they really were just angry and impulsive and didn’t meticulously plan this and had to just take out 3 possible witnesses with the knife they had, I could be wrong.

Silencer’s aren’t as easily obtainable as just the gun itself. Tax stamp, waiting period, etc.

IMO, I think a gun makes this a lot sloppier of a crime between the noise and the ability for ballistics matching to a particular gun.

Unfortunately I think this was a stranger to them. Someone who set out that night to kill, not an ex, or begrudged lover, etc. He may not have even been focused on them, but just on killing itself.

I think the location of their home (next to garden, walking path, heavy foliage), as well as the layout of the house itself (sliding glass door on ground level from the back) made him choose that house.

JMO / Speculation.

 

[margarita25]

Maybe this was planned and a knife would have been a quieter weapon. If he had use a gun, it will make a loud noise that neighbors may wake up from it thus making it difficult to leave undetected.

And maybe “picquerism”:

Criminal Profiler Weighs in on the University of Idaho Murders

Could Kaylee Goncalves, Madison Mogen, Ethan Chapin and Xana Kernodle have been killed by a serial killer? Criminal profiler Dr. Casey Jordan says it's possible.

www.insideedition.com

“The use of a large knife, possibly a Rambo-style combat knife that has a seven-inch long blade, part of which is serrated, is also telling, he says.

“We can't rule out that there is a sexual nature to it,” he says. “In criminology we often talk about picquerism ... an assailant who is stabbing with a knife in place of sexual activity sometimes because of a lack of ability to perform.

If it is the work of a serial killer, it's reminding many of the notorious Ted Bundy.

“Don't forget, Ted Bundy killed two sorority sisters. He's very famous for being a serial killer, but he did commit a multicide. We have seen this too with Richard Speck, who killed eight nurses in one night all in their dorm room,” he says. “The idea of campus killings and campus multicides, killing more than one person at once, has happened.”

Jordan says that if the killer is not apprehended, he believes there is a very high risk that they will kill again.”

 

[Moonglow630]

You might add to that time frame the stairs on that route.

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Edited to add the post I was trying to quote:

ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 7

Maybe this has already been stated, or I’ve misinterpreted the current information wrong - but is it assumed that the murders happened in the early hours of the morning, ie. shortly after the calls to J? What if it all happened much later, closer to when the ‘unconscious person’ call to 911 was...

www.websleuths.com

What NO ONE is paying attention to with the house plan, and it’s easily confusing, is, THERE’S TWO SETS OF STAIRS!!!



Only one set of the stairs go up to Maddie & Kaylee’s floor. On the 3rd floor, you have the stairs in the front coming up from the first floor, & then the stairs that led up from the 2nd floor to the 3rd floor on the opposite side of the house, and the opposite side of where Xana’s bedroom was.

 

[MiamiSolver]

Video (Twitter): Investigators looking closely at the backyard.

 

[BeSweets]

Multitude of reasons for someone to be distraught.. Just saying

Also that doesn't answer how he responded to the amount of missed calls/what they were apparently about. He's her ex

JMO/speculation

Please read The Rules (linked in my signature), and continue discussion here.

Also, for anyone other than victims or an officially named POI/suspect, use initials or your post will be removed.

No sleuthing or insinuations/accusations against anyone who is not officially named a POI/suspect by LE.

He doesn’t owe you anything about how he feels. He’s not a named person of interest. He is with the victims family, making him off limits. The tunnel vision on him is astounding — placing all speculation on one person and no additional sleuthing is how these cases aren’t solved. IMO

 

[auroraborealis517]

I wonder if was someone who interacted/saw them at the bar and followed them home from a distance

 

[KaylynnCouture]

I just had this same thought to myself. If they decided to go out that way, i think it’s possible this goes unsolved. It really would be a shame

I thought about this however, if this were the case, I think it’s unlikely the person is local. A suicide would’ve most likely been reported by now. Or a missing person. And given that the suspect likely has knife wounds (from the defensive nature/attack of this) it would stand out.

 

[Sunny Texas]

I just watched the 2nd presser and that police chief had broken out in hives by the end those journos had some questions he clearly didnt want to answer for fear of slipping up and giving away confidential info imo.

I do however find it odd that the 2 surviving roomates got home at 1am and a call was not placed until 11.58am drunk or not that's a massive time lapse. The police chief said he cannot explain how they didnt wake why didnt he just say they passed out he never said that why is everyone assuming they were blind drunk when 1am isnt that late and K&M were home later and didnt appear extremely drunk from video footage at the food truck. How did they both in separate rooms in the basement wake up at the exact same time and no one needed to go to level 2 where the kitchen was located slightly earlier for some water if they were so hungover because they had a massive night and slept through 4x murders? This imo is not random at all. The killer has been in that house before to navigate it in the dark and the reason those 2 girls survived in the basement is they were simply not the target. It makes me think the 2 girls up on level 3 K or M were the target but they had to go thru Ethan and Xana to get to them or 1 of them heard a noise and contronted the killer briefly. Also perhaps the poi (police chief won't disclose if they have one just said no suspect in custody) has been to the house so many times they can explain trace DNA as a frequent visitor. If killer wore thick gloves perhaps there were no bloody fingerprints left behind period. I really hope LE can get a breakthrough soon for the grieving families.

I don't find it unusual at all. They get home at 1 AM, probably at least slightly inebriated after an evening out partying. They may not have fallen asleep until 2-3 themselves, although we don't have any indication they went upstairs and saw their roommates. They are in a converted basement, which is partially underground and well-insulated from the sounds above. Even if not, they are used to sleeping through loud parties and probably had their doors locked and noise machines or music playing on earbuds. Their floor had its own bathroom and the laundry area for the house, and it's likely they had their own coffee pots or even micro/frig downstairs, as is common in these college rent-by-the-room places. Let's say they fell asleep around 2 and woke up at 11, hungover. That's only 9 hours of sleep--not much for a college student after a weekend party night. No matter when they woke up in the morning, they may have stayed on their floor puttering around, showering, messaging friends, etc. They could even have left the house from the exterior exit on their level, made a run to Starbucks, and returned home via their exterior entrance...all without ever going upstairs to the 2nd and 3rd levels where the bodies were located. Alternately, either or both of those girls might have had a boyfriend sleep over in their bedrooms downstairs, so they may have stayed in bed hungover and/or "cuddling" before getting up.

 

[Moonglow630]

Another reason I believe that the perpetrator is a stranger to the victims is as follows.

In the vast majority of cases where a spouse or boyfriend goes bezerk, and suicide does not follow, they are caught either at the scene or shortly thereafter. The frenzy that led to the crime means that clear, rational thinking is hard, and they make mistakes.

A psychopath on the other hand….

What NO ONE is paying attention to with the house plan, and it’s easily confusing, is, THERE’S TWO SETS OF STAIRS!!!



Only one set of the stairs go up to Maddie & Kaylee’s floor. On the 3rd floor, you have the stairs in the front coming up from the first floor, & then the stairs that led up from the 2nd floor to the 3rd floor on the opposite side of the house, and the opposite side of where Xana’s bedroom was.
So fumbling around in the dark, if you didn’t know the house & you were trying to be quiet, you could get lost with that floor plan, especially the two sets of stairs. And if he came in the front, Xana & Ethan were killed first, just based on the layout of the house. But if they came in the sliding glass door…..then it’s anyone’s guess.

 

[margarita25]

Welcome all new members.

We used to have fireworks and stuff but not sure we have them on this new software.

—-

Has there been any reference to a police dog(s) on scene, thanks, sorry threads move fast and am behind and too tired to search Google right now.

I was just thinking about that time they caught the perp when he was gathered around with crowd and bystanders and onlookers and media after the crime...they had a dog on scene and it went right to him. That’s how they got him. I can’t remember what case it was, but anyway, I was wondering if they got any kind of scent when they tracked outwards and where that may have potentially led, if anywhere. Sorry if rehash.

—-

Eta I wonder, IF there was vehicle, if he parked up where this white car as an example is seen passing up on the hill.

White car as example going by in background on hill at :42 - :43.
What road is that, marking again to look at map.

 

[WingsOverTX]

What NO ONE is paying attention to with the house plan, and it’s easily confusing, is, THERE’S TWO SETS OF STAIRS!!!



Only one set of the stairs go up to Maddie & Kaylee’s floor. On the 3rd floor, you have the stairs in the front coming up from the first floor, & then the stairs that led up from the 2nd floor to the 3rd floor on the opposite side of the house, and the opposite side of where Xana’s bedroom was.

Great info. Relevance to the crime? Not mocking, I'd really like to know how you think this plays into the crime or crime scene.