ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 8

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M.O.O.....

I get how enormous a task this is for LE. Multiple murders and multiple locations need to be cataloged. That takes time.

I also understand them being hesitant to release any information that might aid the killer.

But....

They also have an obligation to the community. People need to know what they are dealing with so they can protect themselves. Keeping everyone completely in the dark is not fair to them.
They aren't really in the dark though, IMO. They know there is someone (or someones) still out there who did this, and no one knows who did it or why. At this point every household would likely have re-enforced their doors and windows, made sure to arrange to never walk or enter a home alone and is taking every precaution they possibly can to watch out for themselves.

Having lived through a summer where an LE department decided they didn't want to panic anyone so didn't mention there was a serial rapist climbing in through open windows (o_O) which has got to be one of the STUPIDEST things I ever heard, I think this department is doing a good job of letting people know to protect themselves, PERIOD.
 
I think that the killer wanted to kill everyone in that house but, for whatever reason, he was unable to. Locked doors, got spooked, saw a dog, didn't realize the other two were present...Why show up at a crowded house, albeit sleepy and possibly intoxicated, to kill one person one has a grudge against? Too risky, when a single victim can be picked off alone at a later opportunity. There would also be the risk of armed resistance in a house full of people. Murderous grudges have time to waste, I think.
I'm in agreement. Not likely to be a rage killing toward one person. Also not likely to be a rage killing toward all four (and potentially six) people. This crime seems more psychopathic. For sport or even the challenge of it. Could be wrong, but that's what I'm leaning toward.
 
Thank you Otto! So the woods in the back, is there also another parking lot there? (Town? Public?j or just one parking lot in the front? (I’m hopeless with directions, sorry.)
This is a screen shot showing a road going up, along the side of the property, to the back of the property. We can also see the hill behind the house. There is public road/parking behind the property at the top of the hill.

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Google Maps
 
I would really like to know how LE is attacking this crime. Have they divided their manpower up into teams that each focus on a possible motive? What do they think the most likely motive is? Have they dug deep enough to thoroughly clear those closest to the deceased? I’m also curious as to why none of their close friends or workmates have spoken publicly. If they have I’ve not seen where. Are they afraid to? Have some of them lawyered up? I would also like to know specifics related to the brutality of the murders. I live in East Idaho and am all too familiar with Chad and Lori Daybell and the brutality involved with their case. I think of “Under the Banner of Heaven” and the brutality dealt the victims in that story, executed with a Bowie knife, of which the Kabar is a subset. DezNat uses Bowie knife imagery as part of their belief system. My point being that not only military, ex-military, and paramilitary should be associated with this type of weapon. If the crime scene is as bad as I/we imagine then it’s an emotional attack, one inspired by sudden reactionary hate, vengeful hate, or fundamentalist belief type of hate. Fundamentalist types of hate can include incels, cultists, and simply strangely wired individuals like mass murderers. I can’t get past the motive. And there really hasn’t been enough info disseminated to narrow it down. Just my thoughts. What a horrible outcome for these kids, their friends, coworkers, and families. I’m thoroughly disturbed.
 
This does NOT look like an ex-bf (domestic) situation to me. Too many victims.
Agreed! There’d be much easier/cleaner/less risky ways to do it if they were only after one person.

Unfortunately, these poor girls weren’t too careful about what they posted online, so there are literally hundreds & hundreds of people who could have been keeping tabs on their lives & whereabouts without their knowledge. It sounds like the house is well known in the area, so it wouldn’t have been hard for anyone to find them based on social media posts showing the exterior of the home. The freaking floor plan is available on Zillow. Their TikTok’s illustrate who’s in which room. Instagram tells you exactly who’s around at any given time. It’s just WAY too easy for creeps these days.

Speaking of, did anyone else find the twitch stream kind of weird? The fact that random men are sitting around watching a live cam of drunk college kids picking up food & offering to pay for the cute ones meals is super strange to me…
 
The killer was looking for one of the blondes, knew where she lived but not where she slept. Went from room to room looking for her until he found her. Why the blondes? because he would have bounced after killing the couple, which of girl had dark hair. I believe they slept on the 2nd floor? He found his victims on the 3rd floor so he didn't bother with the two other girls in the basement.

killer is probably one of her followers on social media and followed their updates. he semi planned this out because he knew how to get in the house without breaking any windows or doors.

I doubt its the ex bf as if he wanted to kill his ex, he would have just done it when they were alone together.
While I agree that it's not the ex, I don't necessarily agree with the stalker premise. A stalker would surely know his victim lives with a lot of other students through real life and online surveillance which would make the house actually the least convenient choice for a move against her.

In the study Behavioral Characteristics of Stalkers Who Kill (Brooks, University of Oklahoma, 2021) it was found that there was approximately a 4.8% chance of collateral victims in stalking cases sampled.

Essentially, a stalker feels the need to exercise control over their victims which makes a full house a problematic location for them. Therefore he must carefully pick the time and the place to avoid disruptions and remove as many of the variables as possible such as potential screaming roommates alerting neighbors and the police. The number of people and the absence of a sexual assault, in my mind, point away from a stalker.

MOO
 
These graphics really say a lot. Given the location of the blood outside of the house -- if it is indeed blood -- then I would think that E & X's bedroom would be the one marked as vacant on the second floor of this floorplan. (Of the two and given the choice, I might choose that room myself, because it looks like it gets a little less traffic passing by and the bathroom is right next to it.) That wall where the blood seems to come from would be a logical place for the bed to be IMO. So the downstairs girls would come up the stairs and make an immediate right and they would have a clear view of the doorway to that room, and into part of the room (but not the bed) from that vantage point. I wonder if they saw Ethan laying down in or near the doorway and called out and he didn't answer and it scared them, so they ran back down the stairs to call someone, never seeing any of the real carnage. JMO. I also just had the horrible thought that if that was indeed their bedroom and Ethan were laying there, then the killer was not accidentally confronted on his way upstairs, but had to purposefully go to that room to kill them, as the other bedroom is the only one that the killer would have to walk directly by in order to get to the third floor if they entered the house from the kitchen area. JMO. Source: otto.

View attachment 381625
I agree, if that is blood on the exterior of the house (per media witnesses), then the "vacant bedroom" is most likely Xana's bedroom. If the bedroom door was open, then the roommates would have seen someone right away as soon as they came upstairs ... whom they assumed was unconscious.

It does suggest that the murderer went out of his way to get to that bedroom - that it was not on the direct path from the kitchen door to the upstairs bedrooms.
 
I can totally relate to the 2 people on the first floor not hearing anything, especially if they sleep with a fan on to block out sounds from what in all likelihood can be a noisy house with that many people coming and going at all hours.
Also, if you look at Otto's post of the floorplan, it seems like it would be easy for a killer to miss the first floor, entirely. I'm not sure if there's a half wall or a full wall beside those steps, but from an entry point through the glass door on the 2nd floor the view to the top of the first floor steps is indirect.
 
Actually, John Webb says that Captain Anderson said not connected. ;) I have seen so many times that someone interpreted someone else's words X way and put their own interpretation on the words. Not picking on you, diggndeeprstill, your post was just handy.

I admit, I try to be pretty literal in these situations, only because I have my own experience (as others here do) with words being used a specific way on a case for a reason, and Media twisting those words to mean what they want it to mean or what would sell a story. I acknowledge that Captain Anderson might have said this. Or might have said "We have no connection at this time" and that became "No connection" to John Webb.

By the time we get to the second "so and so said such and such", the original words aren't usually being used, and even those original words are sometimes a bit nebulous. "Likely asleep" when attacked becomes "Asleep when attacked" by someone' s interpretation. Not the same thing. Found in Beds is not the same as found in their OWN beds. What if three people were found in one bed? For whatever reason. What if some were found in beds? If the question didn't ask "were they ALL found in their own beds?" and the answer wasn't "All were found in their own beds." there is room for differing possibilities.

Yes, it matters sometimes. In my own experience, it matters a LOT (the words and how they were used were EVERYTHING). In this case, it might or might not matter. Just don't rule it out or rely on any one news source IMO.
I totally agree. Honestly, I was just doing that with another quote! So thank you.
 
I think it's interesting this person did not harm the dog. Maybe they're an animal lover.
Thank you for mentioning the dog. The dog is not in the timeline. Are we sure the dog was there? If the dog was shared, it could have been with J that night.

Did K take the dog with her when she moved home? Was it left in the house? Was this the first night the dog might have been back? I'm actually quite curious about the dog. I've not seen any links to where the dog was or where it was found, but I am sure I've missed something. These threads are flying.
 
Thank you for mentioning the dog. The dog is not in the timeline. Are we sure the dog was there? If the dog was shared, it could have been with J that night.

Did K take the dog with her when she moved home? Was it left in the house? Was this the first night the dog might have been back? I'm actually quite curious about the dog. I've not seen any links to where the dog was or where it was found, but I am sure I've missed something. These threads are flying.
The dog was there that night. Kaylee's parents say her messages to her ex that night show her asking him to please speak with her soon about the co-ownership of the dog. Dog is in good hands now.

I don't know the answers to your other questions unfortunately
 
Also, if you look at Otto's post of the floorplan, it seems like it would be easy for a killer to miss the first floor, entirely. I'm not sure if there's a half wall or a full wall beside those steps, but from an entry point through the glass door on the 2nd floor the view to the top of the first floor steps is indirect.
Stairs going from the second floor to the first floor.

1669070811344.png

 
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Re the accusations, insinuations, sleuthing of non POIs


from: The Rules: Etiquette & Information

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on Maggie O'Mara's FB page there is a Kaylee's Family Speaks Out post where a comment states "This is so hard to watch.
1f494.png
Ethan texted my son at 2am, and he’s almost positive they were still at Sigma Chi at that time, based on what the text said. That wouldn’t put them at the house until at least 2:10-15. My son called the tip line and reported this days ago, but they are still saying they think Ethan and Xana were at the house at
1:45. Frustrating."

If that is true as well the the whole timeline seems off.
Could LE be going off what they think are the pings as opposed to what others are saying?
It seems odd with their timeline seeming so rigid. I'm surprised by that. Appears maybe the timeline needs to be adjusted.
 
There are questions at the end of the last thread regarding which floor is which. There are three floors in the house. The second floor would be considered the main floor, since the kitchen, living, dining spaces are on that floor. There is no basement. From the front of the house, we see three floors. From the back of the house, we see two.

I have added labels to the front and side of the house as: first, second and third, so we can share a common language when discussing the floors. If the floors should have different labels, such as parking floor, main floor and upstairs floor, I'll be happy to make that change.

View attachment 381613

This map shows the property boundary (red line). The blue lines are elevation lines. Each line represents a 10 foot increase in elevation. We can see that there is a 30-40 foot difference in elevation from the front of the property to the raod/parking behind the property. It would be easy for someone to sit in the trees at the back of the property and look directly into the windows at the back of the house.



Very interesting. So the front door should be eliminated as a point of entry then. Wow!
 
threads are flying so bringing this forward

Facebook (Moscow PD)
Moscow Homicide Update
November 20, 2022


MOSCOW, Idaho – The Moscow Police Department is providing the following information to update the public on the known facts surrounding the four murders that occurred on November 13th in Moscow, Idaho.
Updated Information:
• Detectives are releasing that on the morning of November 13th, the surviving roommates summoned friends to the residence because they believed one of the second-floor victims had passed out and was not waking up. At 11:58 a.m., a 911 call requested aid for an unconscious person. The call originated from inside the residence on one of the surviving roommates’ cell phone. Multiple people talked with the 911 dispatcher before a Moscow Police officer arrived at the location. Officers entered the residence and found the four victims on the second and third floors.
• At this time in the investigation, detectives do not believe any individual at the residence, when 911 was called, is involved in this crime.
• Rumors and speculation continue circulating about the ongoing investigation. MPD cautions the public not to rely on rumors and remains committed to keeping the public informed. We urge reliance on official channels for accurate information.
• TIPS: Detectives are looking for context to the events and people involved in these murders. Anyone who observed notable behavior, has video surveillance, or can provide relevant information is asked to call the Tip Line at 208-883-7180 or email tipline@ci.moscow.id.us.
 
There are questions at the end of the last thread regarding which floor is which. There are three floors in the house. The second floor would be considered the main floor, since the kitchen, living, dining spaces are on that floor. There is no basement. From the front of the house, we see three floors. From the back of the house, we see two.

I have added labels to the front and side of the house as: first, second and third, so we can share a common language when discussing the floors. If the floors should have different labels, such as parking floor, main floor and upstairs floor, I'll be happy to make that change.

View attachment 381613

View attachment 381615
View attachment 381617

View attachment 381618

This map shows the property boundary (red line). The blue lines are elevation lines. Each line represents a 10 foot increase in elevation. We can see that there is a 30-40 foot difference in elevation from the front of the property to the raod/parking behind the property. It would be easy for someone to sit in the trees at the back of the property and look directly into the windows at the back of the house.

View attachment 381619
These are absolutely wonderful, Otto! Do you suppose instead of "Blood Stains" it could be "Stains reported as Blood" or the like? These images are so professional looking that anyone seeing "Blood Stains" would think those are confirmed blood stains, when they aren't. (unless they are confirmed, and I missed that in which case my apologies)
 
JMO.

Great post, @otto — thank you!

Speculation re victim “targeting” and connections to other crimes:

The Chi Omega murders in Tallahassee (Ted Bundy) have been mentioned several times as a possible corollary. Immediately after fleeing the Chi Omega house, Bundy broke into an apartment and assaulted another young woman (she survived despite severe injuries).

Bundy’s MO differed and there has been a lot written about his victim preference — but he has not been definitely tied to the murder of a woman to whom he could be socially connected.

Bundy and other killers were known to engage in trolling behavior wherein they may stalk intended victims and/or research/case locations for some time before acting.

We know this (and LE knows it), which is why the other incidents in the immediate Moscow area will be investigated.

The chilling thought is the flip side — victims / locations that were already on this killer’s list and that he had trolled.

LE hasn’t asked for any tips on strange behavior leading UP to the murders. Maybe they’ve ruled this type of killer out?
JMO.
 

Upon entry through the door on the first floor, visitors immediately face a bathroom and furnace room, and there are two bedrooms to the right and left of the entryway.

 

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