ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #17

[Aeronomy]

Is Tricia interviewing the sheriff today? If so; What questions are we asking him to answer or clarify? Thanks

Yes.
Thread found HERE

 

[ClaireNC]

Just some points from the Klein / KID interview.

Part I

-How they got involved with the case: Contacted through Child Rescue Network that they are a part of. Services they provide are free to families that need it, though they do request families, etc. to pay for some expenses.

-Investigating it now as a death case.

-Re: accident or intentional death, they are presently in the stage of determining what type of incident.

-He has never seen such a cooperative effort between private and public sector in a case.

-Right now waiting on analyses of evidence coming in from Quantico and more is on the way out.

-There is no indication other persons are involved other than the two named suspects, though there are ancillary issues he can't get into re: the other two people at the campground that they are still vetting out.

Part II

-Yes, there is active evidence of what happened in this case. It was obtained earlier and matched up later.

-More items were taken into custody yesterday.

-It's not a matter of whether charges will be filed, but what charges will be filed.

-Charges will be filed in Lemhi county (not Bonneville), but also will involve U.S. Attorney (prosecution) as the incident occurred on federal land

-Klein Inv. will not leave the case or let it go until it is solved and they bring baby Deorr home.

Thanks neesaki. Here is the link to the interview. http://590kid.com/2016/01/28/former-deorr-kunz-investigator/

Another thing I noticed that I don't remember ever being mentioned before is that they have traced the money flow and have not seen any sign that would indicated that they had "sold" the child or something along those lines.

 

[CJidaho]

Clarification -

From the recent interviews with Klein and Vilt, Vilt stated the adoption scenario is just one scenario he had looked into.
He then confirmed the interviewer's leading statement in that the adoption scenario wasn't his theory, just a possible scenario.

Got it thanks. JMO but, it was strange to me that he would ramble on so much about something that seems like the least likely scenario.

The Vilt interview was the first I've heard about IR going with DKsr. (Vernal) and JM on their "walk." That was interesting...

 

[ClaireNC]

Got it thanks. JMO but, it was strange to me that he would ramble on so much about something that seems like the least likely scenario.

The Vilt interview was the first I've heard about IR going with DKsr. (Vernal) and JM on their "walk." That was interesting...

Keep in mind that Vilt is a bit eccentric.

Welcome to Websleuths!!

 

[ILOKAL]

I guess I don't see that they would know the "how" unless the physical evidence was somehow tied to the missing child such as DNA, hair, etc. Just speculating, but they must have found something of the child. What else could it possibly be that would implicate likely death of the child?

Physical evidence is from a non-living source. Biological evidence is blood, tissue, urine, etc.

 

[verbonica]

In Idaho, where they are, Deorr Sr. (aka Vernal) meets the requirements of a father who MUST consent to an adoption, as he spent significant time with the boy, claimed on hospital paperwork to be the father (affidavit of paternity), and seemingly lived with the mother for more than 6 months.

BBM

Vernal is Deorr, Sr.? All this time I've been thinking that Vernal is the paternal grandfather (Deorr, Sr.'s father)?

 

[ILOKAL]

Bowerman said he did not meet with Klein when they first started working on the case. Maybe they have met this week? Or maybe Klein is just stretching the truth.

Bowerman said it again earlier this week, IIRC.

 

[CJidaho]

BBM

Vernal is Deorr, Sr.?

Yes.....

 

[Dee10]

I find the first part of the 2nd tape quite confusing. Klein was describing a very long meeting yesterday with all the investigators getting together. Then he mentioned a morning meeting with both families in both our meetings, but were the meetings together or separate? I found this quit confusing, can't anyone shed some light?

 

[ClaireNC]

Bowerman said it again earlier this week, IIRC.

Klein just said that they "all" met yesterday. All meaning Klein plus local and FBI investigators. So maybe Bowerman has met with him since he made that statement earlier this week. http://590kid.com/2016/01/28/former-deorr-kunz-investigator/

 

[LisaB]

I would like to add a bit to that as well.

During the interview VILT stated it was suspicious when (mother) Jessica said she kept looking back at DeOrr.

The parents say DeOrr chose to stay with GGP ... then both parents and Issac head toward the creek ....

I think it is perfectly normal for the mother to keep looking back to make sure the boy stayed with GGP and not follow them.

Perfectly normal. That is exactly what I would have done too. So would any mother.

VILT INTERVIEW http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/01/former-kunz-p-i/

This case already has 100 wildfires burning and new ones are starting daily. Unbelievable.

(modsnip)
It can be confusing, but MOST parents would look back to see their child was "staying put". They would not therefore mention it unless ASKED. They do not have to say "I kissed my son goodnight," "I told him I loved him", etc. because we should not need to be told. It is what the blog-writer refers to as "the expected". He makes similar comparisons to saying you took a shower and toweled off or that you got up and made the bed, or brushed your teeth before work. Becauswe this is NORMAL behavior, most people would not include it in summarizing their day.

For myself, today, I "got up at 6:30, got ready for work" (which included bathing, washing and brushing my hair, brushing my teeth, fixing coffee, packing lunch, and scraping ice off my windshield). "My commute was horrible" (because of uncleared snow and bad drivers, but as this is common this week, again, it is not worthy of mention. If I were to carry on about the frost on my car and the single lane roadways - usually 3 lanes but with only one cleared of snow - and the rude drivers, it would probably be because I was late leaving the house and am trying to "justify" my being late to work by placing the blame elsewhere.

 

[neesaki]

Thanks neesaki. Here is the link to the interview. http://590kid.com/2016/01/28/former-deorr-kunz-investigator/

Another thing I noticed that I don't remember ever being mentioned before is that they have traced the money flow and have not seen any sign that would indicated that they had "sold" the child or something along those lines.

I heard that but for some reason didn't have it jotted down and forgot about it.... just added it in. Thanks, Claire

 

[neesaki]

Physical evidence is from a non-living source. Biological evidence is blood, tissue, urine, etc.

Yes, I thought that was interesting. I always thought that anything "physical" was Physical Evidence. Thanks for that link earlier.

 

[mrjitty]

I have thought about the many places Deorr could possibly be. If he was never on the mountain or was only up there long enough for Isaac R. to see him then maybe the parents put his body in the EMT bag (that Jessica didn't want to bring up in the first interview) and then tossed it into a dumpster somewhere.

Very horrible but possible.

If one was going to bury a body, they'd have to dig 6 feet and then put the body in the ground.. (body's wrapped in plastic or non biodegradable containers would leave too much evidence if ever discovered.) A 6 foot deep hole is not easy to dig and would take some time. I think a cadaver dog would hit on the person that dug the grave and put the child in there. All of that would be difficult to do in 90 minutes before the body starts to decay enough for a cadaver dog to get a hit.. and presumably the dirt would get the truck dirty with earth. Even if the clothes the gravedigger were thrown out, I don't think washing could get the smell of decay off the skin in time. But then there weren't cadaver dogs up there the first day, correct?

One more thing, in the first interview Vernal misspoke and said "Snake" river before correcting himself to the Salmon river then he says snake and salmon search and rescue...The snake river runs right through idaho falls.

Thanks for your thoughts - very interesting!

To me any serious digging also seems unlikely

My guess is the body was probably dumped hastily not too far from where the child died.

The thing is that a dumpster or a large river could work well due to the subsequent misdirection of where to search.

Even when the body is simply disposed of in the woods it can be many years before they turn up.

As I posted upthread - in the Pilley case, the police cannot find the body even though they know the general direction the accused drove in.

 

[ClaireNC]

Yes, I thought that was interesting. I always thought that anything "physical" was Physical Evidence. Thanks for that link earlier.

Klein does say that they are waiting for "lab" results, so he might be using a broader definition of physical. I think most people use term "physical" to mean anything that is tangible and don't differentiate based on the "legal" definition.

 

[AmyPond]

Yep, but his "solid" put a lot of people off the track. A man in his position, IN MY OPINION, has no right to state "solid", he is paid to investigate, not make judgement calls and tell people what to think or post on SM.

Could be wrong. My opinion only but, sorry to say, I do not trust him completely.

If I am remembering correctly, in another case (Lonzie Barton), LE seemed to "play nice" with the mom in the beginning. But I don't think they ever truly thought she was innocent. Maybe something like that happened here.

 

[ILOKAL]

Klein does say that they are waiting for "lab" results, so he might be using a broader definition of physical. I think most people use term "physical" to mean anything that is tangible and don't differentiate based on the "legal" definition.

With over 900 investigations under his belt I think he knows the difference. IMO, saying physical evidence makes it sound like it's something it isn't. IMO

ETA: The physical evidence is probably being tested to determine if there's any biological evidence on it. And, there's a variety of labs that test a variety of things, IMO.

 

[LisaB]

I have been made to understand that tubal ligation is a big no no with some groups. Perhaps that is why Vilt brought it up in such a way. But in response to whoever mentioned the women's rights things, I just want to say that I am not really thinking about women's rights at all. I am more thinking about logic. If a dude gets a vasectomy or a couple uses any number of means of birth control--which most do!--it is a little ridiculous to surmise that they want their existing children gone.

Unless they have sent all their prior children away without being proven abusive or negligent. Not what we expect from a Mom.

 

[mrjitty]

I want to believe the secret adoption story because it offers hope, but that seems pretty unlikely. I have no theory as to what happened or where he is, but lately I've been thinking about a possibility that I haven't seen put out there yet (who knows though, as this is thread 17 and it's difficult to keep up). Anyway, it they had a decent window to dispose of the body, they could have found a spot in the creek and dammed it temporarily, dug a hole, then filled it in, placing larger rocks over the spot to keep everything in place, and the water would have made it look natural shortly after. I have done a little gold panning in small creeks in the W. Idaho area, and have noticed it doesn't long for even a light current to "smooth" the creek-bed back out. On top of that, a lot of people that camp (at least in Idaho) will dam up water to make a place to swim or soak, so this may be a familiar concept to them. It wouldn't take much to dig down deep, even with crude tools. I have dug behind a large rock in the N. Fork of the Boise River with not much more than my hands, and got a 2' x 2' hole dug and an hour or two, and I was panning the stuff as I went. The point I'm getting at is he could be buried very close and in a shallow grave that was hidden shortly afterwards and was missed during the search of the creek because nothing looked out of place. Just a thought.

I never thought of that!

 

[desert-blue]

http://590kid.com/2016/01/28/former-deorr-kunz-investigator/

All his talk about the U.S. Attorney and Quantico and the FBI... not whether charges will be filed but which charges... I'd think JM and DK would be getting just a tad bit nervous right about now...