ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #19

[Rayemonde]

Wow, this is bringing back bad memories of watching that first interview. They seemed so inauthentic, with him rambling on repeatedly about his 911 call, the helicopter and everything except their son. Then they tried to fool people into believing that DeOrr had been abducted because his favorite items had been left behind. How did they think people would buy that?

To be fair I did think they might just be acting strangely because they were overcome by grief... Plus sleep deprivation can make people act strangely...

Yeah, when I watched that interview again after they were named suspects it made me cringe because it's so obvious, but hindsight is 20:20... I don't think anyone wanted to brand them liars just because they came across badly in one interview. Especially since the sheriff said they were "solid" and we should give them a break...

So I gave them the benefit of the doubt - and I think they took advantage of people's willingness to do that, tbh. Playing the "victim" card for all they were worth, literally crying about SM comments in one interview... It made a lot of people feel bad for harbouring any doubts about them, imo.

 

[Mountaingazer]

The first two dogs on the scene were live-scent tracking dogs used for finding missing people

One belonged to the local Sheriff and the other was from the big city sheriff

They were not cadaver dogs , cremation dogs , drug search dogs , explosives dogs , coon dogs , bird dogs , herding dogs , hunting dogs , fake currency dogs , beehive dogs , bomb detection dogs , cheetah scat dogs , skin cancer dogs , truffle dogs

Later days they used 18 different dogs , and of course they found nothing , but that does not guarantee the child was not there.

Dogs are not infallible , never have been<modsnip>

I just want to clear something up about the "sheriff's dog". I really don't think it was his own personal dog. I think when he said my dog, he meant it was a dog from his department. If it was his dog he would have been there as the handler and he wasn't there until later.

I have noticed head LEO's often refer to department assets as theirs, "my dog", "one of my guys", "one of my cruisers", etc. I don't think it is really that important in the grand scheme of things in this case, because a Sheriff is still going to want to believe his team is the best of the best <modsnip>, but I really don't think it was his personal dog.

This was something I had wanted to clear up if he ever did another interview with Tricia, but then completely spaced when the opportunity just presented itself. Anyone have a fake Facebook profile to ask on the County Sheriff Facebook page? He has been answering questions on the visitor posts, but I don't want to ask with my real profile.

 

[Rayemonde]

Marking my spot. Does anyone here still believe DeOrr might have been abducted by a complete stranger?

I think it's possible... I think I was one of the few who gave serious consideration to the idea back when the whole Creep in the Jeep thing came out. I thought, how bad would I feel if I mocked the story and it it turned out to be true?

It's still possible... Just very unlikely, imo. I follow the evidence, and imo there's no credible evidence for an abduction, an adoption, a mountain lion attack...

It's possible. A Bigfoot abduction or a ufo abduction are possible too. But since there's no evidence for them, I don't feel the need to spend a lot of time discussing every remote possibility.

Yeah, I'm sure someone will be quick to point out that there's no direct evidence of foul play on the part of the parents either, but IMO there is a *lot* of circumstantial evidence.

 

[Rayemonde]

So much of what you say is absolutely correct . Once the call went through the operator told them to stay within a good signal area. It absolutely makes sense

But if the father drove to a good signal area everybody thinks he is a guilty monster

ahhh the irony .

.

To be fair, no one here is saying the father is a guilty monster just because he drove down the road looking for signal. That's a straw man. It's everything together, all the little things that don't make sense, all the inconsistencies... I would never brand someone a guilty monster just because of a small thing like that. I've been on the fence for a long time, trying to give the parents the benefit of the doubt, but I think the most likely scenario is that they did something to Deorr and then covered it up. And as I've said before, it's not a decision I've come to lightly.

 

[Mountaingazer]

I think it's possible... I think I was one of the few who gave serious consideration to the idea back when the whole Creep in the Jeep thing came out. I thought, how bad would I feel if I mocked the story and it it turned out to be true?

It's still possible... Just very unlikely, imo. I follow the evidence, and imo there's no credible evidence for an abduction, an adoption, a mountain lion attack...

It's possible. A Bigfoot abduction or a ufo abduction are possible too. But since there's no evidence for them, I don't feel the need to spend a lot of time discussing every remote possibility.

Yeah, I'm sure someone will be quick to point out that there's no direct evidence of foul play on the part of the parents either, but IMO there is a *lot* of circumstantial evidence.

And we don't even know what evidence they have! I truly believe they have more than "less than truthful" polygraphs. I don't think they would make these accusations without more. We just won't find out what they might have until/unless there is an arrest or two or possibly not even until there is a trial.

There have been so many cases I have followed here with naysayers questioning arrests and "well nothing I have read convinces me they had grounds for an arrest", etc. Then boom! At the trial we hear about all the behind the scenes work they have been doing and that there is evidence we couldn't even begin to imagine.

 

[kammiemc]

To be fair I did think they might just be acting strangely because they were overcome by grief... Plus sleep deprivation can make people act strangely...

Yeah, when I watched that interview again after they were named suspects it made me cringe because it's so obvious, but hindsight is 20:20... I don't think anyone wanted to brand them liars just because they came across badly in one interview. Especially since the sheriff said they were "solid" and we should give them a break...

So I gave them the benefit of the doubt - and I think they took advantage of people's willingness to do that, tbh. Playing the "victim" card for all they were worth, literally crying about SM comments in one interview... It made a lot of people feel bad for harbouring any doubts about them, imo.

Totally. There is no way to know for sure if someone is involved in their son's death or cover up by watching an interview. And I don't think anyone who didn't see red flags is lacking Spidey sense. Their interview was just a tip off for me that something seemed pretty fishy and I didn't find them believable, but I still tried really hard to give them the benefit of the doubt for a long time.

On the opposite side, I found IR to be believable in his most recent interview, but that's hardly proof of anything.


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[CanadianWells]

And we don't even know what evidence they have! I truly believe they have more than "less than truthful" polygraphs. I don't think they would make these accusations without more. We just won't find out what they might have until/unless there is an arrest or two or possibly not even until there is a trial.

There have been so many cases I have followed here with naysayers questioning arrests and "well nothing I have read convinces me they had grounds for an arrest", etc. Then boom! At the trial we hear about all the behind the scenes work they have been doing and that there is evidence we couldn't even begin to imagine.

Yes, I agree whole heartedly. They have stated at this point that they have physical evidence and that something has been sent out to a lab. We just have no idea what it is.

 

[Rayemonde]

And we don't even know what evidence they have! I truly believe they have more than "less than truthful" polygraphs. I don't think they would make these accusations without more. We just won't find out what they might have until/unless there is an arrest or two or possibly not even until there is a trial.

There have been so many cases I have followed here with naysayers questioning arrests and "well nothing I have read convinces me they had grounds for an arrest", etc. Then boom! At the trial we hear about all the behind the scenes work they have been doing and that there is evidence we couldn't even begin to imagine.

I think it would be extremely unethical to name the parents as publically suspects and say they "absolutely" know where DeOrr is just based off polygraph tests... I don't think LE would do that in this case because I think they've been very fair and careful the whole time. I don't think for a second that that's all there is.

 

[Openminded]

I obviously don't know what happened (my thinking is that it was an accident of negligence they tried to cover up) but I didn't believe their story from the first interview. However, people can appear guilty of something when they aren't so I continued to read here and on SM. I greatly hoped I was wrong but deep down I always felt my first reaction to them was correct. Now my hope is that one of them will turn on the other and the truth will finally come out. And DeOrr will finally be recovered.

 

[Rayemonde]

And we don't even know what evidence they have! I truly believe they have more than "less than truthful" polygraphs. I don't think they would make these accusations without more. We just won't find out what they might have until/unless there is an arrest or two or possibly not even until there is a trial.

There have been so many cases I have followed here with naysayers questioning arrests and "well nothing I have read convinces me they had grounds for an arrest", etc. Then boom! At the trial we hear about all the behind the scenes work they have been doing and that there is evidence we couldn't even begin to imagine.

Also, how could LE pretty much rule out stranger abduction and animal attack so early? Imo, it's because the evidence was clearly pointing elsewhere. They just didn't let the public know that, so we were left worrying that they weren't doing their job properly and weren't exploring all possibilities thoroughly...

I was very surprised when the evidence from the Lonzie Barton case was released (before the body was found). It was released due to the Florida Sunshine laws, and someone requested it... LE had said they didn't believe the abduction story, and they released the Cctv footage that seemed to show that Ruben was responsible for ditching the car himself (he had claimed it was stolen with Lonzie inside). But when the rest of the evidence was released, I was astonished by how much there was that LE had kept quiet about. The blood splatters in the apartment, for instance... And yet they still held off charging Ruben for anything other than child neglect for ages.

 

[wondering25]

Could they have sold the baby to someone? Could they have smacked him really hard because he was a" filthy bawling baby" and they were trying to discipline him and he died? What happened to the story that GGP saw him go over the hill and he thought the baby was following the parents? Come on everyone..minnows, dogs,grandpa's driving skills and candy bars are not integral parts of this story. A baby is missing and the parents failed on crucial polygraph questions. The mom reportedly no longer has custody of her other 2 kids and her third child is missing without a trace. The sheriff and the FBI are calling her and the dad suspects.

An elderly, somewhat infirm man can be suggestible. Who knows what they said to him that made him "think" he saw something at one time when it was a different time.

One parent knows.. one suspects..that is my opinion.

Anything I write is just my opinion

 

[Rayemonde]

How could one parent only suspect?

 

[pepelepolecat]

Could they have sold the baby to someone? Could they have smacked him really hard because he was a" filthy bawling baby" and they were trying to discipline him and he died? What happened to the story that GGP saw him go over the hill and he thought the baby was following the parents? Come on everyone..minnows, dogs,grandpa's driving skills and candy bars are not integral parts of this story. A baby is missing and the parents failed on crucial polygraph questions. The mom reportedly no longer has custody of her other 2 kids and her third child is missing without a trace. The sheriff and the FBI are calling her and the dad suspects.

An elderly, somewhat infirm man can be suggestible. Who knows what they said to him that made him "think" he saw something at one time when it was a different time.

One parent knows.. one suspects..that is my opinion.

Anything I write is just my opinion

One of the videos almost convinced me that one of the parents may be innocent, but I've since swung back into "They both know something" territory thanks to SB and the FBI's hard work.

How hard do you have to hit a child to kill him/her? I've known plenty of people who were hit and abused as children, but even really hard smacks don't usually leave lasting physical damage. Could they have smacked him so hard that he fell and hit his head on something? A rock, the metal fire ring, the picnic table? The damage might have occurred immediately or later on. Otherwise, I'd think it would take more than a smack and something more along the lines of vicious abuse (and I'm not going to be more descriptive here because it sickens me).

 

[wondering25]

How could one parent only suspect?

Maybe one parent did something and covered it up and the other parent isnt buying the disappeared into thin air story.. I dont know. Maybe they both know..Maybe each suspects the other...no one is turning on the other so they may have doubts about the other parent but dont know absolutely. Hard for 2 people to keep a secret...just a theory.. Obviously. they are both lying about jey questions in the polygraph. Maybe one harmed the baby and the other disposed of him. something along those lines...

anything i write is just my opinion

 

[Dee10]

Maybe one parent did something and covered it up and the other parent isnt buying the disappeared into thin air story.. I dont know. Maybe they both know..Maybe each suspects the other...no one is turning on the other so they may have doubts about the other parent but dont know absolutely. Hard for 2 people to keep a secret...just a theory.. Obviously. they are both lying about jey questions in the polygraph. Maybe one harmed the baby and the other disposed of him. something along those lines...

anything i write is just my opinion

Well, the stories don't match but on the flip side both have flunked pertinent questions on their polys. IDK

 

[Rayemonde]

I don't put too much faith in the polygraphs, but I can't think how one of them could have done anything without the other knowing... As far as I know, they've both said they were together the whole time...


Was thinking the same about how it would take a lot more than a smack to accidentally kill a toddler... But parents do seem to accidentally kill their kids whilst "disciplining" them all the time I may not understand it, but I know it happens

 

[Dee10]

Quote from Vilt: &#8220;It's a very sad case. But somebody knows something, and eventually somebody will crack,&#8221; he said.

http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/loca...z-jr-investigator-says-parents-lied/79534050/

 

[wondering25]

I don't put too much faith in the polygraphs, but I can't think how one of them could have done anything without the other knowing... As far as I know, they've both said they were together the whole time...


Was thinking the same about how it would take a lot more than a smack to accidentally kill a toddler... But parents do seem to accidentally kill their kids whilst "disciplining" them all the time I may not understand it, but I know it happens

They both said they were together the whole time... but did that bear out on the polygraphs? They said in the original interview they were together.. who knows what the TRUTH is?

 

[LookingForClues]

They both said they were together the whole time... but did that bear out on the polygraphs? They said in the original interview they were together.. who knows what the TRUTH is?

Excellent point. I hadn't thought of it that way. Maybe the poly results show they were NOT together the whole time.

 

[carbuff]

Wow, this is bringing back bad memories of watching that first interview. They seemed so inauthentic, with him rambling on repeatedly about his 911 call, the helicopter and everything except their son. Then they tried to fool people into believing that DeOrr had been abducted because his favorite items had been left behind. How did they think people would buy that?


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That didn't bother me. It came across to me that they were grasping desperately at anything that would give hope their baby was still alive, and if it wasn't very believable, well, that was all they had to hang onto at that point.

And his rambling and chattering could be explained by stress, grief, and fear.