ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #2

[Mountaingazer]

http://www.localnews8.com/news/new-details-on-search-for-deorr-kunz-jr/34281340

It seems like the tone of the investigation has changed. It feels like they are suspecting foul play at this point.

 

[4senthia]

The mother is a LPN she just might have an emergency medical triage bag don't you think?

Of course. I'm not in the medical field but I carry a full emt bag in my vehicle. Not strange to me.
I'll go on and say that even though I feel so very sad for these parents and I get the stress they are under the affect is off somehow.
That's just from following so many cases for so many years, some even involving my friends.
Not meaning to offend anyone.
When a case starts moving and pressure becomes intense, we get statements like the one we just got from the sheriff.
jmoho

 

[steelman]

Where can we store or scatter ashes after cremation?

In Idaho, there are no state laws controlling where you may keep or scatter ashes. Ashes may be stored in a crypt, niche, grave, or container at home. If you wish to scatter ashes, you have many options. Cremation renders ashes harmless, so there is no public health risk involved in scattering ashes. Use common sense and refrain from scattering ashes in places where they would be obvious to others.

Scattering ashes in an established scattering garden.
Many cemeteries provide gardens for scattering ashes. If you’re interested, ask the cemetery for more information.

Scattering ashes on private land.
You are allowed to scatter ashes on your own private property. If you want to scatter ashes on someone else’s private land, it’s wise to get permission from the landowner.

Scattering ashes on public land.
You may wish to check both city and county regulations and zoning rules before scattering ashes on local public land, such as in a city park. However, many people simply proceed as they wish, letting their best judgment be their guide.

Scattering ashes on federal land.
Officially, you should request permission before scattering ashes on federal land. As with local or state land, however, you will probably encounter no resistance if you conduct the scattering ceremony quietly and keep the ashes well away from trails, roads, facilities, and waterways. You can find guidelines for scattering ashes on the websites for some national parks. For more information, begin your search at the website of the National Park Service.

Scattering ashes at sea.
The federal Clean Water Act requires that cremated remains be scattered at least three nautical miles from land. If the container will not easily decompose, you must dispose of it separately. The EPA does not permit scattering at beaches or in wading pools by the sea. Finally, you must notify the EPA within 30 days of scattering ashes at sea.
The Clean Water Act also governs scattering in inland waters such as rivers or lakes. For inland water burial, you may be legally required to obtain a permit from the state agency that manages the waterway.

http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/burial-cremation-laws-idaho.html

 

[Hatfield]

wow....sad.....things definitely seem to have taken that different direction like sheriff said yesterday.

 

[4senthia]

I also read those laws of scattering ashes in Idaho.
What was done was not illegal.
Doing so during the active search for a missing toddler is not illegal. It is unfathomable. And it speaks to how someone would manage to do so.
I still contend that the entire campground would have been enter/exit only after clearance once boots were on the ground searching.
Deorr could have been in someone's trunk. In a large cooler. Any number of places.
It would have been 100% irresponsible to allow folks to come and go during the initial search.
I can't grasp how anyone was able to contaminate the area (according to the sheriff's clarification today) during anytime of an intense active search.
jmoho

eta i like the idea of someone fulfilling a loved-one's last wish, but how did they get there? on foot? that's a long way to walk in and out. that road leading to the campground would have or should have been closed like a vise.

 

[LietKynes]

In a phone call today, Lemhi County Sheriff Lynn D. Bowerman confirmed that some person scattering human remains in the area did contaminate the search area. The scent of the remains threw off some of the search dogs, leading the trackers on a false trail.
.[/B]

RSBM Snipped for brevity


Whiskey. Tango. Foxtrot.

"...scattering HUMAN REMAINS in the area...."

Holy Crapola. What the eff is going on ???
And where in the world did some get some human remains ? Someone who works in the cremation business ? A grave robber ? This is not something you go and purchase at Target, fgs !
This case just became very weird... and I don't blame anyone if their hinky meter goes off the charts.

Sorry just jumping in like this ; just hopped on to read a page or two and to see if there was progress in finding this little guy.
My initial assumption was just that someone forgot to keep an eye on DeOrr , and I know that a little one can slip away even when he/she is right next to you.
Now I'm feeling like there's a person or perp who doesn't want him found.
Just my opinion.

 

[Hippononymous]

I apologize if this has been mentioned before, but have they said anything about actually analyzing the cremains? Or how fresh they were?

 

[4senthia]

As recently as yesterday it was "cremains" as in cremated. Now it's remains. IDK
Dang this is a weird one that seems to be moving very fast in certain directions right now.
He is not on that plot of land according to the sheriff. Not in the water.
jmoho

 

[katydid23]

It has been suggested that the mother of one of the case players might have died 3 weeks ago. IF SO---could that be why great grandfather and family friend came to the national park? Did they come to scatter the ashes? That would be very interesting if it happened that way.

 

[SeeMamaRun]

I've been reading and reading but haven't posted until now.

My first thought was definitely that little DeOrr fell in the creek or fell asleep somewhere and they didn't see him.

But, I keep coming back to the interview with the parents when they talk about abduction. I think the odds of random abduction out there are very slim but DeOrr (the Dad) said something about someone taking a kid to hurt the parents. That seemed odd to me. Why would you say that unless you were worried that an enemy had come to hurt you?

Now, with the sheriff changing directions and talking about a possible trial... I'm wondering more and more about people who may have wanted to hurt DeOrr or Jessica or even GGPa.

I haven't seen that discussed so thought I'd throw it out there. *back to lurking*

 

[4senthia]

This is what the sheriff said concerning the dumping of cremains/now remains:
http://www.localnews8.com/news/new-details-on-search-for-deorr-kunz-jr/34281340
And this:
http://www.localnews8.com/news/new-details-on-search-for-deorr-kunz-jr/34281340
"Crews have spent dozens of hours focusing on the Stone Reservoir after cadaver dogs indicated there may be something there. On Friday, Bowerman told HLN they learned someone had been dumping human cremains in the reservoir, and that could be the smell the dogs picked up on.

“It’s pretty disappointing,” Bowerman said to HLN. “Someone was depositing human cremains up there while we’re searching the area. It contaminates the reservoir and the entire area.”

jmoho

 

[LietKynes]

As recently as yesterday it was "cremains" as in cremated. Now it's remains. IDK
Dang this is a weird one that seems to be moving very fast in certain directions right now.
He is not on that plot of land according to the sheriff. Not in the water.
jmoho

SABBM

4senthia; this post is just my musing out loud -- it's not directed at you.

--- And how exactly would they know he wasn't in the water ??
Sorry, but I do not "get" this. If one were to place a small body in a sleeping bag or whatever and weigh it down with rocks, (sorry to type that ) the body may stay submerged forever unless decomposition brings it to the surface. So , yes, he could be in the water. Even if the water is as clear as glass, branches or piled up rocks can hide things.
Unless the sheriff knows something we do not.
And how would the sheriff know DeOrr wasn't on the plot of land .... when some other person brought in and scattered 'cremains', or remains -- and thus contaminated the search ?

Makes very little sense, imo.

 

[Mickshawn]

~~Did I read somewhere that there are 2 other children and they are with their dad??? (So maybe J. was married before)...I also noticed on Baby Deorr's Dad's FB page that he is "engaged"...Perhaps other dad is not happy about this? And unhappy enough to hurt somebody? Argh....

I've been reading and reading but haven't posted until now.

My first thought was definitely that little DeOrr fell in the creek or fell asleep somewhere and they didn't see him.

But, I keep coming back to the interview with the parents when they talk about abduction. I think the odds of random abduction out there are very slim but DeOrr (the Dad) said something about someone taking a kid to hurt the parents. That seemed odd to me. Why would you say that unless you were worried that an enemy had come to hurt you?

Now, with the sheriff changing directions and talking about a possible trial... I'm wondering more and more about people who may have wanted to hurt DeOrr or Jessica or even GGPa.

I haven't seen that discussed so thought I'd throw it out there. *back to lurking*

 

[jashrema]

The mother is a LPN she just might have an emergency medical triage bag don't you think?

Mom is a nurse's aide. As an RN myself, I can find no reason an aid would have an EMT bag

 

[4senthia]

Well all I know concerning the water is that it was supposedly searched six ways to sunday, so to speak. With divers, sonar, side-scanning sonar, cadaver dogs, etc.
But the point about knowing Deorr isn't in the water while "learning that someone was dumping human c/remains in the water" DURING the investigation/search....I don't get it either.

jmoho

 

[carbuff]

It has been suggested that the mother of one of the case players might have died 3 weeks ago. IF SO---could that be why great grandfather and family friend came to the national park? Did they come to scatter the ashes? That would be very interesting if it happened that way.

This is only peripheral to your main point, but I keep seeing people making this mistake.

It's not a national park. It's the Salmon-Challis National Forest. National Forests are basically reserved public land with limited development and usage restrictions. The Forest Service maintains roads and campgrounds, but there aren't any of the services and activities that you normally find at national parks. There's no controlled access. And they are massive. Salmon-Challis probably covers a quarter of the state of Idaho, and it runs right into the Bitterroot National Forest at the Montana state line.

If you look on the Google map, you can see the green areas that are the national forest and the white areas that are private land, but if you were standing out there, you couldn't see where one ended and the other began. They try to mark the border on the roads, but even that isn't always possible in lesser traveled areas.

Just wanted to straighten that out. Your point is a good one, if that information is true.

 

[SleuthMom]

Clearly LE is leaning towards foul play.
He said they took polys. We don't need to know the results. I get that. But he says he doesn't know where or even when they were given.
Do they have a lawyer already?
jmho

Is that normal? The fact that he doesn't know when they were given?

 

[Satchie]

And where in the world did some get some human remains ?

If your loved one dies and you choose cremation, you get their ashes in a little box or an urn.

I have scattered my grandmother's ashes. It's perfectly normal and people do it all the time.

 

[carbuff]

Is that normal? The fact that he doesn't know when they were given?

I would think he wasn't necessarily involved in the day-to-day decisions of the department. They probably informed him it had been done but he wouldn't have needed to know the where or when.

 

[4senthia]

I got my emt bag (sans scripts) from a supply house. The real emt bags that are loaded I wouldn't understand either.
jmo