ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #2

[4senthia]

This link clarifies creek vs. reservoir:
http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/0...ack-campground-search-efforts-for-deorr-kunz/
"Crews have spent dozens of hours focusing on the Stone Reservoir after cadaver dogs indicated there may be something there. On Friday, Bowerman told HLN they learned someone had been dumping human cremains in the reservoir, and that could be the smell the dogs picked up on.

“It’s pretty disappointing,” Bowerman said to HLN. “Someone was depositing human cremains up there while we’re searching the area. It contaminates the reservoir and the entire area.”
snip>
From the same link I'd say the area was well searched:
“Numerous resources, including helicopters with FLIR, diver’s, side scan sonar, scent dogs, cadaver dogs, horses, ATV’s, and over 300 people, were used,” Bowerman said, “With absolutely no sign of the victim.”
jmo

 

[Vail]

http://www.localnews8.com/news/new-details-on-search-for-deorr-kunz-jr/34281340
http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/loca...riffs-office-calling-in-air-support/30466883/

Penner and Bowerman don't seem to be on the same page regarding the drone.

(Bowerman) confirmed they did take a polygraph test but didn't know when or if the results of the test would be released to the public.

If they don't want people accusing the parents, then releasing the results of a passed polygraph does the trick. Results are kept confidential when they are not positive, in my experience.

Some additional thoughts:

1. There are several ways DeOrr could have died accidentally with at least one person present and it not be "foul play" (ie this is NOT accusing the parents of foul play):
Not strapped down and hit his head on the truck cab ceiling due to rough terrain
Succumbed to heat while napping in closed cab
Snake bite
Drowning
Fall
Poisoned
In these and similar scenarios where there is no 3rd party to blame such as a berry or snake, the witness is almost definitely going to cover it up out of self preservation. It does not mean they are murderous, or evil, or not horribly devastated by the event. They just believe dealing with it and then letting others believe the person "disappeared" is the best choice. That is just how human psychology works.
2. The 4 individuals present went back to Idaho Falls before returning to the site, correct?
3. Were the cadaver dogs taken the full 3mi radius ? I am unclear on how LE can be confident he is not underground or buried.
4. An object moving 5mph travels 15 miles in 1 hour.
5. IMO no one believes he was abducted by a stranger. Everything and everyone has been focused on the campsite and surrounding area.
6. Why isn't there a namus profile ? Deorr is in the NCIC.

 

[teeandcee]

I have been following and trying to put the pieces of this mysterious and sad sad case together, without much luck.

I think you just described everyone here.

 

[Hatfield]

~~The Creek: What does it feed into? Sorry if I missed this. Why do I think it was the Reservoir....but that can't be..can it?

There is BOTH

My understanding is the Reservoir is upstream from the Camping area and the reservoir feeds into the Creek.

Or the creek feeds the reservoir. I havent heard which way the water in creek goes.

But BOTH are near there. The camping area was along the creek. The reservoir was a little further away but not far.

If the reservoir is upstream and feeds the creek like I am imagining it, then the creek would flow for miles downstream.

 

[teeandcee]

I;m guessing everyone was excited/tired when they arrived and Deorr slipped through the cracks.

Me too. We've all traveled and know how confusing it is when you first arrive with everyone piling out of the cars, unloading, arranging, getting settled in. I really feel awful for not only the parents but the GGP.

 

[Sve]

In regards to my earlier post about there being more than one access point to this location, there definitely is.

Here is some information about the trails in the area,
http://www.summitpost.org/middle-fork-of-little-timber-creek/244283

 

[IDTater]

I honestly don't know what to think of it. The fact that this is all being done via email is most odd. That might very well be normal in the US.

If it isn't the norm then it suggests the Sheriff is keeping the media at arms length and doesn't want to be talking to them.

I think the location of Deorr's disappearance is playing a role in the who/what/where/when of the whole situation. It's about 2 1/2 hours from Idaho Falls, where Deorr and his family are from and where some of the news agencies are located (KIFI, East Idaho News). It's about 5 hours from Boise, where you have the bigger news stations/newspapers (KTVB, Idaho Statesman). Idaho Falls and Boise are about 4 hours from each other and, in many ways, worlds apart. Throw in that the campsite, where the main LE players are presumably spending a large amount of time, has limited cell phone access and that the sheriff's department isn't big enough to have a PR person who's sole job is communicating with the media and the public.

I do think that the sheriff is playing things close to the cuff but I think the above factors play a role, too.

 

[teeandcee]

The camping area was along the creek. The reservoir was a little further away but not far.

Jumping off your post here. If you (you in general, not you specifically) watch the video with the reporter you can see the location of the creek vs. the campground, and more alarmingly, how steep the descent is to the creek.

 

[Sve]

There is BOTH

My understanding is the Reservoir is upstream from the Camping area and the reservoir feeds into the Creek.

Or the creek feeds the reservoir. I havent heard which way the water in creek goes.

But BOTH are near there. The camping area was along the creek. The reservoir was a little further away but not far.

If the reservoir is upstream and feeds the creek like I am imagining it, then the creek would flow for miles downstream.

Your inclinations are correct. From the aerial photos, it appears that Middle Fork of the Timber Creek originates from up in the mountains, travels down to the reservoir and then through the camp before going further downstream, heading through another couple of ponds and connecting with a few other creeks prior to heading to Leadore, and Lemhi, and then emptying into the Salmon River.

 

[bluesneakers]

Thanks for the welcome! And for those wanting to hear the Coast to Coast AM show with David Paulides from July 20th:

[video=youtu;KoMXJfJMQyU]https://youtu.be/KoMXJfJMQyU[/video]

Edit: url may not work correctly, see below!

Sent from my SM-N900P using Tapatalk

WOW.

Thank you.

 

[jashrema]

As an earlier poster said, it is nice to see that mom has put up "posters" on her FB now of Little D. since there were days of silence, BUT am I the only one who thinks its weird that the search posters have the dads pic on them and his pic is the same size as baby's? Plus, the poster with baby w/different hair color and implication that he could be dressed as a girl is just bizarre IMO.

 

[leilarose68]

Thank you for that.

So they state they do not suspect foul play, that no clothing was found and should've been had an animal taken the baby, the waterways are shallow and have been fully searched and it makes no sense that they could not find him given the intensity of the search. So what's left?

I can't get over that he was wearing camo boots and a camo jacket. To me that would make it so much easier for his body to be hidden.

I can't imagine this baby could survive so many days in the wild.

No, they said they don't suspect a stranger abduction. I don't remember them every saying they didn't suspect foul play.

Anyways, you really can't take LE's statements at this time as gospel. Getting the facts right to the press is the last of their worries right now

 

[leilarose68]

I'm torn on this one. My little girl (will be two on 7/29) has worn boots too large for her inside and outside while playing and trekking around (she would see the boots at home before she grew into them and insisted on wearing them :blushing::blushing. She did surprisingly well in the boots until she would sit down on something with her legs dangling down. If she had her legs dangling she had to kick a bit and then the boots would come off. There was another pair of boots that she had which were also too large for her, however they had 'softer' sides. Those boots fell off a lot easier and were more difficult for her to walk in the boots with stiffer sides.

We have to remember that his boots are cowboy books, which means that the awkward heel would make it near-impossible for a toddler to make it far on rough, rocky terrain

 

[Trident]

As an earlier poster said, it is nice to see that mom has put up "posters" on her FB now of Little D. since there were days of silence, BUT am I the only one who thinks its weird that the search posters have the dads pic on them and his pic is the same size as baby's? Plus, the poster with baby w/different hair color and implication that he could be dressed as a girl is just bizarre IMO.

Do you have a link to this? I must have missed the original post. TIA

 

[SleuthMom]

Okay, I have to admit first that I am horrible with maps (can't read them) and I am not familiar with Idaho or the campsite or near locations. I live in the Caribbean so just to let everyone know why I ask. Deorr's father said:

"As his father I believe, and a lot of people agree with me, that he is no longer up the mountain anymore".

What he means by he is no longer up the mountain? Was he ever? How does a toddler climbs a mountain? I'm confused!!

Was this mountain checked? (the one Deorr's father mentions)

 

[SleuthMom]

Do you have a link to this? I must have missed the original post. TIA

Are we allowed to link to their FB pages??

 

[Lizzzard]

No, they said they don't suspect a stranger abduction. I don't remember them every saying they didn't suspect foul play.

Anyways, you really can't take LE's statements at this time as gospel. Getting the facts right to the press is the last of their worries right now

BBM - That's what I thought too. Then I saw this:

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/07/lemhi-sheriff-on-deorr-kunz-we-do-not-suspect-foul-play/

 

[leilarose68]

Why would the boots definitely fall off? It's not always that easy to get boots off.




I think it is crazy to dress a little kid in anything camo. They can be so easily lost and that makes it so much harder to find. How about bright clothing and such for little ones?

Because if boots are oversized, they aren't going to stay on the feet of a young child being carried a long distance by a cougar. The child would also undoubtedly be kicking around.

It's pretty easy to get *oversized* boots off, obviously. One light kick and they're gone

 

[leilarose68]

BBM - That's what I thought too. Then I saw this:

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/07/lemhi-sheriff-on-deorr-kunz-we-do-not-suspect-foul-play/

Hmm. Honestly I think they're just saying whatever at this point... we have been reminded again and again of cases where LE said one thing and then everything very quickly went in another direction. I take their words with a grain of salt atm. They will say whatever they need to say to the public to preserve the integrity of the invesigation; their allegiance is not to us but to Deorr.

 

[Sutton]

...If they don't want people accusing the parents, then releasing the results of a passed polygraph does the trick...

RSBM.

Word.

...
4. An object moving 5mph travels 15 miles in 1 hour...

Objects moving 5 miles per hour, move 5 miles per hour. Or did I misunderstand the quote?