ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #2

[JDauxa]

Not sure if this was mentioned but what was the weather like there that day? When it is stated that he would be good with Grandpa by the fire (paraphrasing) did they mean that they had a fire going at 2:00 in the afternoon or are they just referring to the fire pit area? TIA

Warning! This is a horrible post, apologize for the graphic nature. I keep going back to the fire pit. I did some research on how long it would take for a child's body to burn (my internet search history is probably flagged at this point), and I came upon so many campfire accident articles. Here are some for reference
http://q13fox.com/2013/07/20/a-tacoma-toddler-falls-into-campfire-suffers-third-degree-burns/

http://m.deseretnews.com/article/86...dren.html?pg=all?ref=https://www.google.com%2

As expected, Toddlers/small children are more at risk for campfire/pit falls as they are wobbly, top heavy, and more prone to fall head first into a fire. Toddlers/ children have less body fat, fat in turn becomes oil. This is so morbid but it is very possible that little DeOrr fell into the fire. If the family had just arrived at camp and built a fire they would have used some sort of accelerant to get the fire going, and most likely had stocked the fire full before they went exploring. If DeOrr fell into the fire he could have died of asphyxiation within 30-90 secs. Grandpa probably wouldn't hear a cry, or see much commotion Unless he was close to the fire and focused. DeOrr would have lost conscienceness in the fire, collapsed and continued to burned. He isn't very big, and depending on the amount of wood in the fire, he could have been covered, or not easily seen. Also, I read that clothing, shoes, diapers, etc., act as accelerants on a human body. Parents return to camp and begin looking for him. He could have been burning in the fire for hours, his clothing, boots, would have been unrecognizable at that point. And the water would be my first focus as a parent, surely not the fire. The only thing I can't explain would be a distinct smell. Wonder if anybody noticed a strange smell that day.

I know this sounds crazy but this seems to be a crazy mystery. I want to know if they had a fire going, and I want to know if they have sifted the pit.


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[JLSChook]

^^^ If real outlets are reporting this info, bring on the links! We have been waiting all night and day for this info. :waiting:

 

[carbuff]

Hah. Found a contour map of the area: http://www.earth-3d.com/?eid=5609013_US_HRSV_ID&title=Stone-Reservoir-ID

The campground is at 7600' altitude, so it could have been quite cool there even on a sunny day.

p.s. this post is informational only, for background about the campsite. It has nothing to do with surrounding posts about campfires and was started before those posts showed up.

 

[Jules71]

^^^ If real outlets are reporting this info, bring on the links! We have been waiting all night and day for this info. :waiting:

I haven't found any real outlets that have reported it either and I've been actively searching for it specifically.

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[JLSChook]

Bodies don't "cremate" that fast in a fire pit. A body, even a small child would have been obvious if it was in a campfire/pit.

LE was there within an hour (ish) of DeOrr going missing. If he was in a campfire, his body would be burned horribly, but not "gone"....

ETA--Sorry, was trying to quote JDauxa. My apologies.

 

[starfire]

Bodies don't "cremate" that fast in a fire pit. A body, even a small child would have been obvious if it was in a campfire/pit.

LE was there within an hour (ish) of DeOrr going missing. If he was in a campfire, his body would be burned horribly, but not "gone"....

ETA--Sorry, was trying to quote JDauxa. My apologies.

We really only have the word of the parents that he was missing an hour before they called 911. Plus, in one of the videos it says it takes about 40 minutes to get from Leadore to the campsite. It's apparently only 10 miles but the terrain is very bad and requires a 4WD, SUV, etc. (not that I think Deorr being burned to death or cremated in the fire pit is likely)

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

I am sure they could do something like that, although it would be somewhat expensive to get the right kind of helicopters and people in place to watch for the smoke bombs dye to come out.

Based on the cost of an excursion like that, it may be too costly to pursue it since so many days have already passed and if he fell into a hole then unfortunately I think we would be in recovery mode not rescue mode.

It is a great idea though and i saw a very similar approach on a show where treasure hunters were mapping an underground shaft near the beach. They put powdered dye into the water in the shaft and had a helicopter up looking to see where the dye came out in the ocean.

Interesting... And thank you, Hatfield! :seeya:

 

[white rabbit]

this might be a stupid question (already been established by me that I must be stupid lol)...did any media outlet release pictures of their campsite AS IT WAS when deorr went missing?

I'm specifically looking for a tent and/or campfire. TIA.

 

[4senthia]

^^^ If real outlets are reporting this info, bring on the links! We have been waiting all night and day for this info. :waiting:

You are not the only ones waiting.
I don't care, as I'm an attorney w/funeral director background, just how long I or others have to wait for more info on this case.
This boils my blood literally. And I have my reasons for saying so.
If DeOrr is found anywhere else than nearer his home of Idaho Falls, then I will sincerely apologize and possibly disappear for awhile.
I'm neither antagonized nor worried about my posts concerning this toddler.
I have stated that I have no children of my own (not by choice) and that it raises my goosebumps when reading/researching this "case". Sadly Deorr isn't just another "case" to me or to my comrades.
He is a little baby/toddler.
Make no mistake, I am not angry w/any poster on WS.
I want clear and pertinent answers. The quicker the better.
That's my own (at the present) legal right of opinion.
I hope that those who think that "wildlife" are responsible for taking this little toddler are correct. I don't see it as such.
JMHO and alll that construed within

 

[4senthia]

this might be a stupid question (already been established by me that I must be stupid lol)...did any media outlet release pictures of their campsite AS IT WAS when deorr went missing?

I'm specifically looking for a tent and/or campfire. TIA.

IMO you are NOT stupid. You are a very smart rabbit IMO.
Don't stop sleuthing this case, please!
jmo

 

[JLSChook]

We really only have the word of the parents that he was missing an hour before they called 911. Plus, in one of the videos it says it takes about 40 minutes to get from Leadore to the campsite. It's apparently only 10 miles but the terrain is very bad and requires a 4WD, SUV, etc. (not that I think Deorr being burned to death or cremated in the fire pit is likely)

Well, obviously LE believes the parents, and so do I as of this moment.

The average campfire/fireplace burns at approx. 900-1000 degrees.

A crematorium burns at approx. 1400-1800 degrees and takes an average sized adult body about 2-2 1/2 hours to "cremate"

He wasn't in that campfire, IMO.

I'm not sure what the rest of your post is saying.

 

[takeitfromme412]

You need to provide MSM links or PD links to verify this or it is rumor and against the WS TOS. Just trying to help

I'm "pulling up" photos of Leadore, Idaho Falls, Snake River in Idaho along with "other" areas closer to little DeOrr's home.
If mods need to delete it, that's fine w/me.
Real outlets are reporting and know ggp's friend is less than half his age.
You can easily sleuth this info yourself.
For DeOrr it's worth it, IMO.....
jmo

 

[JLSChook]

I'm "pulling up" photos of Leadore, Idaho Falls, Snake River in Idaho along with "other" areas closer to little DeOrr's home.
If mods need to delete it, that's fine w/me.
Real outlets are reporting and know ggp's friend is less than half his age.
You can easily sleuth this info yourself.
For DeOrr it's worth it, IMO.....
jmo

^^^ If real outlets are reporting this info, bring on the links! We have been waiting all night and day for this info. :waiting:

You are not the only ones waiting.

SNIPPED BY ME

You are the one that said it.

We all care about DeOrr. As a matter of fact, I stated last night that I am losing sleep over this poor little guy.

Perhaps if you would quit with the subtle hints, and "I know what you don't know" posts until real info is released, people would quit asking you for links and information that you don't have.

We all sleuth quietly until more info comes out.

 

[bluesneakers]

I'm "pulling up" photos of Leadore, Idaho Falls, Snake River in Idaho along with "other" areas closer to little DeOrr's home.
If mods need to delete it, that's fine w/me.
Real outlets are reporting and know ggp's friend is less than half his age.
You can easily sleuth this info yourself.
For DeOrr it's worth it, IMO.....
jmo

Which outlets and why would it matter how old his friend is?

 

[starfire]

Well, obviously LE believes the parents, and so do I as of this moment.

The average campfire/fireplace burns at approx. 900-1000 degrees.

A crematorium burns at approx. 1400-1800 degrees and takes an average sized adult body about 2-2 1/2 hours to "cremate"

He wasn't in that campfire, IMO.

I'm not sure what the rest of your post is saying.

I was responding to the post that said the police were there within an "hourish" of Deorr being missing. If the parents were truthful, and the responders left Leadore within seconds of the call, the earliest they could have been there after he went missing is an hour and 40 minutes. There was conflicting stories from the parents on how long he was missing. It was said that the they went exploring for 10-15 minutes, searched for 20 minutes, and called 911. On the 911 call the mother said he had been missing an hour. Doesn't mean either is a lie, but that is one of the stories that isn't quite straight.

I know LE has claimed that they don't believe the parents are suspects. That may make it "obvious" to you that they believe everything the parents say, but LE has been known to lie for investigative reasons, so I am not convinced that they have absolutely no suspicions.

 

[JLSChook]

I was responding to the post that said the police were there within an "hourish" of Deorr being missing. If the parents were truthful, and the responders left Leadore within seconds of the call, the earliest they could have been there after he went missing is an hour and 40 minutes. There was conflicting stories from the parents on how long he was missing. It was said that the they went exploring for 10-15 minutes, searched for 20 minutes, and called 911. On the 911 call the mother said he had been missing an hour. Doesn't mean either is a lie, but that is one of the stories that isn't quite straight.

I know LE has claimed that they don't believe the parents are suspects. That may make it "obvious" to you that they believe everything the parents say, but LE has been known to lie for investigate reasons, so I am not convinced that they have absolutely no suspicions.

Ahhh, gotcha. I understand the 2nd half of your post now, thanks. Sorry, for some reason it didn't click. :doh:

As far as the 2nd half of this post, I have to adhere by the TOS here, so....I'll leave it at that.

 

[Cardinal47]

You are not the only ones waiting.
I don't care, as I'm an attorney w/funeral director background, just how long I or others have to wait for more info on this case.
This boils my blood literally. And I have my reasons for saying so.
If DeOrr is found anywhere else than nearer his home of Idaho Falls, then I will sincerely apologize and possibly disappear for awhile.
I'm neither antagonized nor worried about my posts concerning this toddler.
I have stated that I have no children of my own (not by choice) and that it raises by goosebumps when reading/researching this "case". Sadly Deorr isn't just another "case" to me or to my comrades.
He is a little baby/toddler.
Make no mistake, I am not angry w/any poster on WS.
I want clear and pertinent answers. The quicker the better.
That's my own (at the present) legal right of opinion.
I hope that those who think that "wildlife" are responsible for taking this little toddler are correct. I don't see it as such.
JMHO and alll that construed within

Thank you for your post. Just what I too have been thinking. I have followed many missing persons but this one is so very unusual in not giving out the simplest details of a missing child.

I worry that this particular LE is not equipped to handle this kind of missing child case.

Poor little Deorr. There now seems to be no sense of urgency in finding him. No reporters and no LE asking for the public's help in finding what happened to this little boy.

I have never followed a case with no information during or after the loss of a little child.

Are they still looking? Following leads? Have any idea what happened to him?

It's one strange case to follow.

 

[CatsInTheCradle]

this might be a stupid question (already been established by me that I must be stupid lol)...did any media outlet release pictures of their campsite AS IT WAS when deorr went missing?

I'm specifically looking for a tent and/or campfire. TIA.

I wanted to see the same setup but if pics were taken they have not been shared. I wanted to see how far the truck was parked from the campsite, how many vehicles were there, etc.

 

[takeitfromme412]

You are not a stupid rabbit! xoxo been off WS for awhile but I wanted to thank the White Rabbit for all the help on the Conway NH case...... HI WHITE RABBIT!!!!

this might be a stupid question (already been established by me that I must be stupid lol)...did any media outlet release pictures of their campsite AS IT WAS when deorr went missing?

I'm specifically looking for a tent and/or campfire. TIA.

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

this might be a stupid question (already been established by me that I must be stupid lol)...did any media outlet release pictures of their campsite AS IT WAS when deorr went missing?

I'm specifically looking for a tent and/or campfire. TIA.

I have not seen any...

and... I am very curious as to the set-up of the campsite, too!

JMO...