ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #22

[pepelepolecat]

I found it interesting that Bowerman emphasised in his latest interviews that DeOrr is the victim in this case. Why would he emphasise that? Does he think the parents have been falsely presenting themselves as victims?



http://www.11alive.com/story/news/n...ts-missing-idaho-boy-named-suspects/79373780/



http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/01/sheriff-i-just-pray-little-deorr-will-be-found/

Klein essentially did the same thing when he emphasized that only DeOrr was his client.

 

[kammiemc]

That was my first thought. My son's pediatrician measures a mole at each well check to monitor it for any changes. But the background of the pic looks like someone's house.

I also wonder why this birthmark wasn't publicized as a way of ruling out all the blonde headed toddlers out there. Remember the hotel boy fiasco? Would have been so easy to just say he didn't have the birthmark.

IMO, the unfortunate, but obvious, answer is that the parents (and also LE) have always known that he wasn't abducted; they know what happened to DeOrr and where he is right now. They just let everyone believe he could he still be out there. Takes a special kind of people to let their families and friends, and the public, believe something like that for so many months. I'll never understand.


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[scmom]

I sure would love to hear the different stories the parents have told investigators.

 

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

I sure would love to hear the different stories the parents have told investigators.

We will in time. Justice can't get here soon enough.

 

[scmom]

I just can't imagine an investigator sitting down with the parents and asking to hear about the events leading up to DeOrr's disappearance in installments.

 

[Dee10]

I truly hope both parents had a good smart phones with all the GPS apps enabled. I think, VK may have one as he was a trucker. It would not surprise me at all if JM did as well.

I fear because of the remote area & topography there could be problems with pings, where this may not affect GPS where they use satellites and it is after all federal land. I wish I knew more about this technology as I think this is what it's going to come down to, to be able to find Deorr and bring him home.

I think we will know if they are "on to" a particular area if they search lst thing in the spring and bring in professionals vs. a public search. I believe that is why the sheriff turned groups away before as it would be waste of volunteer group's resources until they narrowed the search area down outside of the 2 1/2 or 3 mile area already searched. In January, LE was in that area in 4 to 6 feet of snow...so there was a reason for doing so. That's also around the time, they were receiving information back from the FBI.

Of course, if they can find Deorr using Pings or GPS and depending on where that location is, it should be a slam dunk by being able to place someone(s) at/near the location along with the other evidence they have of course to tie everything together with a bow. All JMO & hope.

:busted:
​

 

[courtneyb]

Yes it is a shame. Its one thing to support parents who have lied to LE but to muddy up this babys thread is just so wrong on many levels.

Take the polygraphs out of the equation. The parents still have lied to LE. Telling multiple versions of what happened is irrefutably lying (deception, less than truthful, whatever).

One tells a version, LE sees a hole in the version, making it impossible to be a true version, so they say, "Oh, wait. THIS is how it went." They try to fix the problematic area of the story. This cycle happening even once is lying. I'm doubtful that the parents' stories changed only once. Add in that you have likely each parent telling different versions multiple times and what else is there to infer except that they have knowledge of what happened that they are deliberately withholding from LE. Take it one step further and ask why would a parent of a child that is missing withhold information? The answer has to be that they are protecting someone from getting in trouble, which is the number one motivation for lying. Pertaining specifically to the disappearance of a child, what could one of them have done that would get them in trouble? Obviously something that led to the disappearance of the child.

In no instances, does LE tell us every bit of evidence they have. And especially not so people on a forum can have good discussions about it. They don't care about satisfying our want of knowledge about the case and frankly, they shouldn't. They want to see justice served and so an argument saying that "they haven't told us about any concrete evidence they have" just doesn't hold water. Of course they haven't told us.


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[LietKynes]

Marking my spot and hoping for a resolution this spring !

 

[Lilibet]

Dare I say "Yay mods"? :hero:

:gomods:

 

[gliving]

Hi everyone. My town has been without internet for almost a week due to a cable break under the ocean. Very trying, I even had to break out an actual recipe book instead of using my usual cooking website.

So happy to be back and read so many thoughtful and caring posts concerning Deorr. Hopefully his parents will put all their fears aside and do the right thing for their son Deorr. He's just a tiny little guy but he deserves the truth be told.

 

[courtneyb]

I keep hoping that their guilty conscience would get to be too much and they would just tell the truth but sadly, I think that they view themselves as more important than DeOrr. And probably always have.

How can you not allow your baby to be laid to rest?


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[neesaki]

Polygraphs are a tool for LE to aide in investigations. I have a friend who is a polygrapher with a large department. He trained at Quantico and attends seminars and ongoing training there. Polygraph results are actually allowed in civil trials if both sides agree to it. Of course that rarely happens.

The ongoing discussion about polygraphs is not going to end, IMO, because either you think they are helpful or you don't. For those who do not think they are helpful, can anyone explain how you have two different people and different genders not being truthful in regard to the same questions but truthful in others? That would be an oddity, IMO. I believe the Sheriff and the FBI in that the parents are not being truthful in all questions.

I do not believe for a moment that polygraph results is the only thing the Sheriff and the FBI have. As in all cases, it is the totality of the evidence that makes the case. The truth is a constant. You can tell the truth time after time with consistency.

I keep just reading because I have nothing of substance to add. The only other thing I want to say is that I also do not believe for a second that the only people who know what happened to little DeOrr are the parents, GGPA, and IR. I believe there are others involved here, IMO. I just hope that sooner or later someone will decide to come clean about what they know.

JMO

Same here, as Sheriff B stated there are inconsistencies and changing stories throughout the course of their multiple interviews, not just the polygraphs. As far as "failed" versus "inconclusive" polygraphs I have still had questions. For one, I don't understand how they could have multiple inconclusive polygraphs between the two of them, one perhaps but not four or five each. jmo

This is an article from the Missing Persons of America website that explains the "inconclusive" issue and answers the questions I've had. Some points it brings out are the experience of the examiner, asking no more than 10 yes / no questions, and not using open ended questions. I was also surprised that only about 5 to 10 percent of polygraphs are inconclusive.

What does Inconclusive mean on a Polygraph Test? http://www.missingpersonsofamerica.com/2015/07/what-does-inconclusive-mean-on.html

She also explained that an inconclusive result could be caused by someone that is confused by the question or their is a language confusion, or the testee is on drugs. (The defense that Hailey Dunn's mom, Billie Jean used when her's came back inconclusive-although she failed the second one.)
She also explained another reason results can be inconclusive is if the testee is trying different things to alter the results like moving too much or putting a tack in their shoe or contracting the anal sphincter, which is considered sabotage. The examiner would rule the person was being deceptive and therefore inconclusive. Trained examiners will pick up on deceptions.

The bottom line on all this is when a person states their test was inconclusive, you now know the variables that would have caused that result. The person was sabotaging the test by being drunk or high or trying to alter the results by doing something physical so that the examiner has no choice but to rule it inconclusive.

 

[neesaki]

Hi everyone. My town has been without internet for almost a week due to a cable break under the ocean. Very trying, I even had to break out an actual recipe book instead of using my usual cooking website.

So happy to be back and read so many thoughtful and caring posts concerning Deorr. Hopefully his parents will put all their fears aside and do the right thing for their son Deorr. He's just a tiny little guy but he deserves the truth be told.

Oh my gosh, that would be terrible. I've often wondered what I'd do if something like that happened. I would feel lost, that's terrible isn't it :scared: I even pay my bills online, but that kind of possible scenario is the main reason I have not and will not allow my bills to be delivered electronically, I could still write a hand check and send them the old fashioned way if I was forced to, LOL. Sorry for the OT, and good to have you back.

 

[Lilibet]

Hi everyone. My town has been without internet for almost a week due to a cable break under the ocean. Very trying, I even had to break out an actual recipe book instead of using my usual cooking website.

So happy to be back and read so many thoughtful and caring posts concerning Deorr. Hopefully his parents will put all their fears aside and do the right thing for their son Deorr. He's just a tiny little guy but he deserves the truth be told.

Welcome back! We realize how much we depend on the internet now when we don't have it. I'd probably have withdrawal symptoms!

Thanks for adding your kind and caring thoughts to the thread.

 

[kammiemc]

I keep hoping that their guilty conscience would get to be too much and they would just tell the truth but sadly, I think that they view themselves as more important than DeOrr. And probably always have.

How can you not allow your baby to be laid to rest?


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If they feel guilty they certainly are masters at hiding it. They don't even come across as concerned, except for their own self-interest (people talking about them seems to be their only woe). Just my impression of the past seven months.


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[ILOKAL]

Same here, as Sheriff B stated there are inconsistencies and changing stories throughout the course of their multiple interviews, not just the polygraphs. As far as "failed" versus "inconclusive" polygraphs I have still had questions. For one, I don't understand how they could have multiple inconclusive polygraphs between the two of them, one perhaps but not four or five each. jmo

This is an article from the Missing Persons of America website that explains the "inconclusive" issue and answers the questions I've had. Some points it brings out are the experience of the examiner, asking no more than 10 yes / no questions, and not using open ended questions. I was also surprised that only about 5 to 10 percent of polygraphs are inconclusive.

What does Inconclusive mean on a Polygraph Test? http://www.missingpersonsofamerica.com/2015/07/what-does-inconclusive-mean-on.html

Although that is a good source, according to other very reputable sources, there are many more reasons for an inconclusive polygraph that don't utilize countermeasures by the examinee. Here's some more explanations:

http://patc.com/weeklyarticles/polygraph.shtml

 

[DatelineFan]

If they feel guilty they certainly are masters at hiding it. They don't even come across as concerned, except for their own self-interest (people talking about them seems to be their only woe). Just my impression of the past seven months.


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They don't seem concerned at all. It's truly disturbing!

 

[Rayemonde]

I sure would love to hear the different stories the parents have told investigators.

You know, I bet that some of them were the inconsistencies that sleuths were picking up at the start. We were giving the parents the benefit of the doubt and assuming that it was all just MSM mistakes or LE officers misspeaking, but was it? Iirc Nate definitely made some mistakes, but I bet a lot of the other changes came from the parents.

 

[kammiemc]

You know, I bet that some of them were the inconsistencies that sleuths were picking up at the start. We were giving the parents the benefit of the doubt and assuming that it was all just MSM mistakes or LE officers misspeaking, but was it? Iirc Nate definitely made some mistakes, but I bet a lot of the other changes came from the parents.

One notable change was that the parents said they went exploring for 10 mins, then that turned into fishing.


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[Rayemonde]

I still think it's interesting that the sheriff mentioned that who made breakfast was part of the story that changed.... If they lied about breakfast, whatever happened must have happened early in the day. Maybe IR and GGP were still asleep or off fishing when it all started.