ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #4

Discussion in 'DeOrr Kunz, Jr.' started by bessie, Jul 27, 2015.

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  1. bessie

    bessie Administrator Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    Deorr Kunz Jr.
    [​IMG]
    Missing two year old in Lemhi County
    http://m.localnews8.com/news/Missing-two-year-old-in-Lemhi-County/34110688

    [HR][/HR]
    Chief deputy on missing boy's family: 'They're solid
    KTVB, KTVB.COM 2:14 p.m. MDT July 16, 2015

    [...]
    "We've interviewed the family, and the information they've provided us - my office, myself - we're good with that," he said. "And I know there's a lot of innuendo out on social media and a lot of stuff going out there and it would be nice if it would stop and let them have a little peace. They're solid."

    [HR][/HR][h=1]ID - Deorr Kunz Jr, 2 yr old -- Media,Timelines and Maps **NO DISCUSSION"[/h]
    Thread #1
    Thread #2 Thread #3
     
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  3. bessie

    bessie Administrator Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    ADMIN NOTE: Welcome to our new members.

    If you haven't done so yet, please take a little time to review THE RULES forum, particularly Etiquette & Information.

    In the meantime, I'll give you the run down on a few important ones.

    • Rumors and gossip are NOT allowed on WS. If you read it on Facebook, leave it on Facebook.
    • Unless LE indicates that an individual is a POI/suspect, that individual is OFF LIMITS to sleuthing and speculation. Please keep your suspicions to yourself.
    • WS holds to a "victim friendly" policy, so the above applies even more strongly to family members, particularly parents and spouses, who in most cases are innocent, and suffering terribly when their loved one is missing or murdered. The last thing we want to do is add to their pain. Therefore, they always are granted the benefit of the doubt.
    • Brainstorming theories is encouraged, but must be based on fact. For our purposes, "fact" refers to information published in the mainstream media (MSM) or other acceptable sources, such as academic and professional publications.
    • When you state something as "fact", you must back it up with a link to an approved source.
    • If you can't link it, you can't post it.
    • Social media is a nightmare in terms of rumors. You can summarize information from an original post on a LE or MSM FB page. No copy and paste, no screenshots, and you must include link.
    • Comments and posts by the general public are considered rumor, and therefore, off limits. Again, leave them where you find them.
    • Mods have the right to edit and delete posts at their discretion if deemed inappropriate, or in violation of TOS. Complaints, questions and concerns should be addressed in a private message to a mod or admin. DO NOT post them in the thread.
    • If at any time, you have questions or need assistance, the mod team is happy to help you. Please use the pm system to contact us.

    The above is only a partial list of the rules. You'll find others in the links provided. Please check them out, as it is your responsibility to know them.

    One last note:

    **LE has stated Deorr's parents are cooperating, and are not considered suspects. Negative comments toward the parents will be met with ZERO TOLERANCE, and result in a TIME OUT, no questions asked.**

    :tyou:

    Bessie
     
  4. bessie

    bessie Administrator Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    Family friend not a suspect in case of missing 2-year-old, sheriff says
    By Nate Sunderland, EastIdahoNews.com | Posted Jul 27th, 2015 @ 10:43am


    "Bowerman said Reinwand, similar to Mitchell and Kunz, are "persons of interest" in this case because they were at the scene. However, at this time, neither Reinwand, Mitchell or Kunz are suspects in the missing persons case."

    "Mitchell and Kunz believe their son was abducted. Bowerman has not ruled abduction out. He said authorities do not suspect foul play, but has said in the past that everything is being considered in the search for the toddler. No suspects have been named in the case."[HR][/HR]POI does not equal Suspect, and any one of us who happened to be at the scene, and capable, would be regarded as such, and subjected to questioning by LE. SOP.

    The parents and the friend remain OFF LIMITS to sleuthing until, and unless, LE indicates any one or more have been elevated to the level of "Suspect".

    You can discuss the contents of the article and video of the friend. Since the criminal history was part of the article, you can discuss it. However, it would be wise to note that the past charges mentioned were related to a contentious domestic situation ten years ago. Not a good thing, but also not consistent with a pedophile or sexual predator.

    Linking to and discussing his social media profiles, address, and other personal information is not allowed.

    The parents are still considered victims, and as I said in an earlier post, are to be given the benefit of the doubt on this site.


    Bessie
     
  5. LookingForClues

    LookingForClues Member

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    I don't know how to pull a post from a closed thread, but it would be great if a mod or more savvy poster could post the time line that Niner posted. It would also be helpful to post one of the many posts that explain who lives with who. Unfortunately there has been considerable confusion about that, and misinformation keeps popping back up and people are running with it. OK, another thought, bring forth one of the many posts about who was at the campground, which has been another source of confusion that keeps growing legs. Thanks to whoever can take care of this! :)

    :loveyou:
     
  6. MzOpinion8d

    MzOpinion8d On Time Out

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    DeOrr's mother said in the 911 call that he had been missing for an hour at the time of the call.

    In later reports and media interviews, the time was changed to 10 minutes, and then a family member who wasn't there told media the time missing was only 4 minutes.

    I believe the Mom when she said an hour. It was the FIRST account and usually the first account is the most reliable account.

    An hour is PLENTY of time for a lot of scenarios to have happened.
     
  7. SleuthMom

    SleuthMom Former Member

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    Those in the campsite:

    Jessica Mitchell (Mother)

    DeOrr Kunz Sr. (Father)

    Isaac Reinwand (great-grandfather's friend)

    Great-grandfather (name, unknown)

    Our baby boy Deorr
     
  8. CatsInTheCradle

    CatsInTheCradle Verified Baylor Bear!

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    And the tiniest yet biggest victim of all , little DeOrr Jr.
     
  9. SleuthMom

    SleuthMom Former Member

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    My sub-conscious was kicking. :facepalm:

    I added him, thanks.
     
  10. Niner

    Niner Long time Websleuther

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    add to Timeline:

    Quotes from July 20th - http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/07/20...idaho-toddler/
    What happened during the 20 to 45 minutes the child was alone is a mystery to authorities, said Bowerman, who noted "all possibilities" are being investigated.

    "I don't look at them as suspects at this point in time," the sheriff noted.

    Bowerman, however, said he's not convinced of an abduction, noting that no other campers were seen or heard in the area at the time of the disappearance.

    "We don't have any evidence that somebody kidnapped this child," he said.

    "We've literally torn that country apart and found absolutely not one clue." - Lemhi County Sheriff Lynn Bowerman
    Lemhi County sheriff's officials said via their Facebook page, "After 10 days of searching, diving, and scouring the hillsides, the Sheriff's Office has decided to redirect the investigation."

    Quotes from July 21st – http://www.localnews8.com/news/new-d...nz-jr/34281340
    Sheriff Bowerman also confirmed that drones are being brought to the Timber Creek/ Stone Reservoir area but doesn't believe they will be used in the search. Instead the drones will be used to document the area for evidence if a trial in connection to DeOrr's disappearance is ever convened.

    The sheriff also stated that at this time he does not consider the parents to be suspects in the child's disappearance. He confirmed they did take a polygraph test but didn't know when or if the results of the test would be released to the public.

    Sheriff Bowerman also confirmed that drones are being brought to the Timber Creek/ Stone Reservoir area but doesn't believe they will be used in the search. Instead the drones will be used to document the area for evidence if a trial in connection to DeOrr's disappearance is ever convened.

    More Quotes from July 21st – http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/local...port/30466883/
    Despite intense efforts by searchers with tracking dogs on the ground and divers in the water, investigators have found no trace of the toddler, who disappeared during a family camping trip on July 10.

    After more than a week of searching Stone Reservoir, Penner said he feels confident that they will not find the boy there, but says they still plan to keep checking it daily.

    Detectives have re-interviewed everyone who was in the Stone Reservoir and Timber Creek areas the day DeOrr went missing. In addition to Twin Falls County, the Bonneville County Sheriff's Office has also been asked to help with the investigation.

    July 24th - http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/local...race/30624055/
    Lemhi County Sheriff Lynn Bowerman says the department has not ruled out foul play.

    July 26th - Twin Falls County deputies are headed to Lemhi County to help in the search for a missing toddler. Deputies are helping to look for 2 year old toddler DeOrr Kunz Jr., who went missing while camping with family near Salmon, Idaho. Twin Falls County Sheriff Tom Carter sent Chief Deputy Don Newman, Lt. Daron Brown, Sgt. Dave Benefiel, and Deputy Jake Benson. They left last Wednesday, and took with them two drones, a Razor, and two 4-wheelers to use in the search. (source: https://www.facebook.com/twinfallssheriff)

    July 27th - The Twin Falls County Sheriff's Office is assisting with our high tech drone technology as there is difficult terrain in this area that is virtually impossible to access by foot. The Lemhi County Sheriffs Office requested our assistance with their search efforts. We value the opportunity to serve the community where we live, and hope that we are able to provide the assistance that will help bring this search to an end. We like so many others pray for a positive outcome. We will keep you up to date. To answer a previous question, yes our guys left last Wednesday. We will let you all know how things turn out with regard to our involvement in this search. Thank you for your thoughts and prayers! (source: https://www.facebook.com/twinfallssheriff)

    Above timeline from: http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/07/deorr-kunz-disappearance-a-timeline-of-events/
    For 911 call and parents interview see: http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/07/heartbroken-parents-of-missing-2-year-old-well-find-you-son/
     
  11. ClaireNC

    ClaireNC Well-Known Member

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    DeOrr Kunz media links:
    -Article first interview with Grandma: Grandma of missing 2-year-old: “He Just Vanished” Updated at 6:40 pm, July 12th, 2015 http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/07/grandma-of-missing-2-year-old-he-just-vanished/

    -Full unedited interview with parents from July 13: UNEDITED INTERVIEW: Parents of Missing Idaho Toddler Speak Out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwM1oG3z358

    -Short version of interview with parents from July 13: Heartbroken Parents of Missing 2-year-old: “We’ll find you son. Updated at 2:51 pm, July 13th, 2015 http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/07/heartbroken-parents-of-missing-2-year-old-well-find-you-son/

    -911 call from mom, full version: Mother’s 911 phone call released — “My 2-year-old son, we can’t find him…” http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/07/mothers-911-phone-call-released-my-2-year-old-son-we-cant-find-him/

    -Article and video of Campground, July 15: A closer look: the campground where Deorr Kunz disappeared Updated at 5:56 pm, July 15th, 2015 http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/07/a-closer-look-the-campground-where-deorr-kunz-disappeared/

    -Update article July 19, Timeline: http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/07/deorr-kunz-disappearance-a-timeline-of-events/

    -July 22 update “Lemhi Sheriff on Deorr Kunz: “We Do Not Suspect Foul Play” http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/07/lemhi-sheriff-on-deorr-kunz-we-do-not-suspect-foul-play/

    -July 24 update “Retired investigator on Deorr Kunz: ‘This will come to a resolution” http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/07/retired-investigator-on-deorr-kunz-this-will-come-to-a-resolution/

    -July 27 article and video “SHERIFF: Family friend not a suspect in Deorr Kunz case.” http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/07/sheriff-family-friend-not-a-suspect-in-deorr-kunz-case/

    -Video of Nancy Grace show. Deorr Kunz search featured on Nancy Grace http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/07/deorr-kunz-search-featured-on-nancy-grace/

    -Transcript of Nancy Grace show from July 15: http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1507/15/ng.01.html

    -HLN article, sonar brought in, interview with grandpa Kunz, cremain dumping 7/17: Family fears missing 2-year-old was abducted http://www.hlntv.com/article/2015/07/17/deorr-kunz-missing-family-fear-abducted

    -PEOPLE article: “Mom of Toddler Who Vanished While Camping Won't Put Down His Baby Blanket, Boy's Grandfather Tells PEOPLE” http://www.people.com/article/missing-boy-idaho-grandfather-speaks

    -KMVT update July 17: “The search for a missing toddler continues in remote Eastern Idaho” http://www.kmvt.com/content/news/The-search-for-a-missing-toddler-countinues-in-remote-Eastern-Idaho-316310011.html

    -Daily Mail article: “Search continues for toddler who vanished from Idaho campsite last week as police reveal chance he was abducted is 'remote'” Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3165519/Police-continue-search-toddler-disappeared-Idaho-campsite.html#ixzz3gGbYYn00

    -KTVB article and video, day 5 of search, interview with aunt - 4 minute video: “Search for missing boy leads back to reservoir” http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/local/idaho/2015/07/15/missing-boy-deorr-search-dogs/30209081/

    -KTVB 7/17 update video: http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/local/idaho/2015/07/16/search-deorr-lemhi-no-trace/30262877/

    -KTVB 7/17 p.m. update sonar robot being used: “Sonar robot being used in search for missing East Idaho toddler” http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/local/idaho/2015/07/17/sonar-robot-being-used-in-search-for-missing-east-idaho-toddler/30319703/

    -KTVB video interview with grandfather: Missing toddler's grandfather believes boy was abducted http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/local/idaho/2015/07/17/missing-toddlers-grandfather-believes-boy-was-abducted/30321903/

    -KTVB video: Former sheriff offers perspective on Lemhi County search http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/local/idaho/2015/07/16/search-challenges-sheriff/30259235/

    -July 21 update from KTVB. Drone being brought in: http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/local/idaho/2015/07/21/lemhi-county-sheriffs-office-calling-in-air-support/30466883/

    -July 20 update about wolf den, cremated remains, more. http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/07/20/searches-reservoir-wolf-den-yield-no-clues-in-hunt-for-idaho-toddler/

    -July 21 update, new details. http://www.localnews8.com/news/new-details-on-search-for-deorr-kunz-jr/34281340

    -July 24 update, “Toddler search hits two weeks, still no trace” http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/local/idaho/2015/07/24/toddler-search-hits-two-weeks-still-no-trace/30624055/

    -July 23 brief article: “Facebook post circulating about child’s disappearance as search is scaled back” http://www.idahostatejournal.com/members/facebook-post-circulating-about-child-s-disappearance-as-search-is/article_462fa72e-3039-11e5-a81d-9b5deb717c34.html

    Sheriff's Office:

    Lemhi County Sheriff’s Office Facebook page. Press releases: https://www.facebook.com/LemhiCountySheriffsOffice?fref=nf
    Sheriff’s report to Commissioners: http://lemhiweb.com/content/search-recap

    Maps of the area:
    BYO’s maps: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?285131-ID-Deorr-Kunz-Jr-2-Timber-Creek-Campground-10-July-2015&p=11934108#post11934108
    Google map with relevant locations: https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?usp=sharing&mid=zW6CBVbxpdYA.klXz-SrbHNBI
    Bing Map from this post: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?285131-ID-Deorr-Kunz-Jr-2-Timber-Creek-Campground-10-July-2015&p=11934743#post11934743
    https://www.bing.com/maps/default.aspx?encType=1&where1=44.58087%2c%20-113.46596&cp=44.5808715820313~-113.465957641602&qpvt=44.58087%2c+-113.46596&FORM=MIRE#Y3A9cmR4MmRyNWpiNDV5Jmx2bD0xNSZzdHk9YiZxPTQ0LjU4MDg3JTJDJTIwLTExMy40NjU5Ng==

    Snoopster's maps: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?285131-ID-Deorr-Kunz-Jr-2-Timber-Creek-Campground-10-July-2015&p=11936318#post11936318
    Here is a slightly "tilted" view of the camp area to give a sense of terrain. https://www.google.ca/maps/place/Timber+Creek+Campground/@44.5859431,-113.4649946,336a,20y,180h,41.16t/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x5357b2face15292b:0x50f57ef867884c6
    An even more tilted, longer range view https://www.google.ca/maps/place/Timber+Creek+Campground/@44.5939947,-113.4663488,284a,20y,180h,82.21t/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x5357b2face15292b:0x50f57ef867884c6

    Forest Service listing for the campsite: http://www.fs.usda.gov/recarea/scnf/recarea?recid=76098

    Other:
    Help Find DeOrr Kunz Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/FindDeorrKunz?fref=ts
     
  12. Elainera

    Elainera Well-Known Member

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    bbm - small correction - I believe it was said he had been unaccounted for for about 4 minutes when the parents arrived back at the campsite. Then they started searching, and after a while (20 minutes?) called 911.
     
  13. gitana1

    gitana1 Verified Attorney

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    I agree that the first call is the most accurate in a 911 situation and I stand corrected as to thinking it was only 20 minutes!
     
  14. carbuff

    carbuff Well-Known Member

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    I disagree about the first timeline being the most accurate in this particular case. When we're out camping in a beautiful peaceful place, the last thing we would be thinking about is what time it is. We'd have only the most approximate idea how lcng it had been. It wouldn't be until later when we had a minute to check phone timestamps and that sort of thing that we'd be able to put together anything realistic. I extrapolate that their timeline might have had the same issues.
     
  15. ILOKAL

    ILOKAL New Member

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    It's been ages since I have posted. Oddly enough, I learned about little Deorr missing while WE ourselves were tent camping in the Cumberland Mountains of SE Tennessee, not far from the Great Smokey Mountains. I chose this area to get to the mountains of Tennessee without the concern of black bears which are so prevelant in the Great Smokey Mountains and Cherkoee National Forest. We had our seven year old grandson with us. We arrived at our campsite right on the lake late Monday afternoon, July 13th. We had no WIFI so heard no news during our eight day adventure. However, a camping neighbor told me about this missing little boy. She had heard about him missing from a friend who said it was believed Deorr had been abducted. Of course, no one had to tell us about the concerns of abductions and never let our grandson out of our sight, not even for a minute. Of course the main difference was while the Deorr's campsite was remote, ours was full of "strangers" and all kinds of people coming and going as well as an Interstate that ran beside the campground. I had researched areas with black bears and chose,not to tent camp in any area KNOWN to have black bears habitating there.

    It wasn't until we arrived back to our cabin, also in TN, that I was able to read about this missing little boy. I started researching the predatory animals that live in Salmon-Challis Forest and their characteristics. It immediately seemed to me that the most likely cause of Deorr's disappearance was a mountain lion. A lion could and most likely WOULD just grab a small (25-30 lb) child from behind and within an instant, kill the little boy. Yes, just that fast! No noise, no nothing! Gone - in an instant. The lion would then carry his prey and bury it. He would return to the prey as long as it remained fresh. In other cases of attack by mountain lions, the victim's clothing was located in the stomach contents upon necropsy. The camo shirt and camo boots would be very hard to find and if buried well enough on the forest floor, even impossible to detect. Although clothing from victims has also been found in the stomach on bears, a bear attack does not seem to fit the scenario of Deorr's disappearance. The territory of a mountain lion is vast and most likely way beyond the search. Mountain lions seem to attack children more often than adults.

    This case has just shook me to the core. I can honestly say I doubt I will camp again since research has shown that mountain lions DO live in any and all areas that we would camp. Our cabin here in middle Tennessee is surrounded by trees and lots of cover. Supposedly mountain lions are not in this area but there have been sitings on cameras in our county on numerous occasions. I just NEVER before gave mountain lions a thought! :(
     
  16. skinnycat

    skinnycat Member

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    Poor lil DeOrr how could he just vanish into thin air

    I hope that when they had the drone out that they at least flew it down the creek farther than what they had searched.

    I was shocked when I was looking at photos of the area and saw mine shafts that are not blocked up in the Meadow lake area which isn't far from timber creek, maked me wonder how many there are in the area where lil DeOrr was. He could have squeezed himself into such a small space, a crack or crevice even
     
  17. Mountain

    Mountain New Member

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    Thank you for this post. I must say that the mountain lion theory as you described is much more comforting to me than other theories that I have heard. Quick and painless is preferred if demise is the outcome for this little sweetheart. I pray that he was abducted and found alive but I am also a realist.
     
  18. Marmlet

    Marmlet Member

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    I hope that LE is looking at possibilities outside of the given timeline, because those times were estimations, given in a circumstance of high stress. I know from experience, that it is hard to estimate time passed, especially when you're panicked. I hope LE has outside confirmation from the cashier (and hopefully a time-stamped register receipt) as to what time they were at the store. Because if they have that, and they have the time of the first 911 call (which obviously, they do), then I would work between those two times, to build my timeline of how long he was missing before the arrival of LE/search units.

    For example: They left the store at XX time...it takes XX time to drive from the store to back to the campground...parents stated that they spent XX time setting up camp, and XX time walking around and exploring, before realizing that Litte DeOrr was missing. Something like that, with (I hope, so badly!) a concrete time to start from (when they left the store), drive time estimated by an LE local who knows the area, and all the different time estimates after back at camp, added up. Because the possibilities of how far Little Deorr could have wandered, or how much time someone had to abduct him, would be vastly different, assuming "missing" times of 20 minutes or so on the shorter end, up to...maybe an hour?...on the longer end, before the 911 call. But as I said, it is possible, and I sincerely hope, that LE has more time confirmations and solid times to go from, than what we've heard.
     
  19. teeandcee

    teeandcee New Member

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    ILOKAL, I agree with you. I'm on the fence as to whether he's been washed down the stream or it was a mountain lion. I see no other possibility based on the speed with which he vanished without a trace. It can be pretty scary reading about attacks. I start seeing bears and lions under every shrub in my suburban back yard. :facepalm:
     
  20. SleuthMom

    SleuthMom Former Member

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    Hi, thanks for sharing your experience! So a mountain lion CAN eat something like cowboy boots?? I am not familiar with these animals but seems a little difficult to believe.
     
  21. ClaireNC

    ClaireNC Well-Known Member

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    No, I mountain lion wouldn't eat the cowboy boots. The poster said the cowboy boots and camo jacket would be hard to see if they were buried on the forest floor. However, a mountain lion does not actually bury its prey. It just brushes some leaves and other material over it so it blends in with the surroundings. It is not actually buried in a hole with dirt over it.
     
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