ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #5

[bluesneakers]

Not me. I'd want to find my kid or great grand child. I would do anything and everything to assist LE in anyway and lawyering up shuts that down immediately. And this is an attorney making that statement!!!

I'm not saying I wouldn't do anything and everything LE wanted from me. I would want an attorney to advise me and prepare me for what might be coming next. And to explain the process in a way I could understand because it's likely I would be out of my mind with fear and not paying close enough attention. I did this during an assault charge (I was the victim) and was confused and completely lost. He walked me through everything and was a huge help.

 

[Dee10]

IMO the FBI seems to bring another (higher) level of questioning & study, like say body language, statement analysis whatever else they have to root out the truth in whatever happen. If this a FBI team that specialize in child foul play or abduction (which I suspect) they would know more what to look for because of their training. I think if someone were being interviewed they maybe intimidated enough to slip up as well. I'm thrilled to hear this news.

 

[gitana1]

Which is the only reason I think it might actually be a "clue". In fact, anything that is called a "rumor" is suspect to me at this point, if only because the only "rumors" I've heard them mention is that DK's boss wasn't supportive and a store clerk reported seeing a little boy who looked like DeOrr hours after he disappeared. Those are the only two "rumors" DK saw fit to address. But he had plenty of time to talk about helicopters with infrared scopes and how amazing the searchers were who didn't find his child. (I am not criticizing the searchers, who by all accounts have been amazing. It's just very unusual for a parent to spend so much time praising SAR when their child is still missing. A few days would not usually be enough time to come to grips with the likelihood that your child is already dead, process your grief and move to the stage of thanking everyone for their efforts on your child's behalf. JMO)

I have seen cases on here with parents praising LE or the searchers, MULTIPLE times, even though nothing has been found.

 

[leep]

Not me. I'd want to find my kid or great grand child. I would do anything and everything to assist LE in any way and lawyering up shuts that down immediately. And this is an attorney making that statement!!!

I agree totally and respect your honesty, thank you.


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[Jackeee]

I'm sure I heard a collective sigh of relief when we knew the FBI is now involved.

Please find this boy whose little face I will be able to picture in my mind for a very long time.

 

[skinnycat]

What makes you think there has been no questioning? I'm surprised to see how many people feel that four, separate LE agencies involved in this case, as well as the NCMEC, and various professional search and rescue professionals, are all just totally inept and haven't been thorough.

I did't think that they hadn't been questioned, I'm even positive that they were questioned to the ability and knowledge that the local police are capable of, when was the last time this LE was dealing with a major crime such as abduction or murder. I just figure that the questioning from the FBI will be more in depth, I'm pretty sure that the FBI are more skilled in the art of interrogation,

Maybe from the start the LE was eyeing someone that was staying on that site and he has kept the information very close to the vest, maybe LE thought he could break that person, get them to confess, that hasn't happened so he is bringing in the FBI.

 

[bluesneakers]

Maybe he works weekends and had not received time off for camping/searching?? Was this a spur of the moment or planned trip?

I don't really understand either how in 36 hours, rumors about his employer would have started. Unless he was talking about it - like man I'm supposed to go to work on such and such day I hope I don't get in trouble/fired for staying here to search for my lost son even though we think he was abducted. ??

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If he's a longhaul truck driver (I think that's what he said?) his days and hours would be irregular, and he might get called in with little notice. Based on what I've seen here and elsewhere it doesn't surprise me the rumours started quickly. Maybe they started with coworkers.

Was it only 36 hours? I thought the interview was on the 13th.

 

[gitana1]

The link I posted upthread states that the FBI has to be invited and the father has said from the beginning that he believes his son was abducted.

JMO

Could you please quote where it states in the link that the FBI "has to be invited" to get involved? Because I read the link and did not see that. The FBI has automatic jurisdiction to investigate per the Lindbergh Law. They choose whether to investigate, whether invited or not. It is federal law that they be notified immediately.

Also, where does it state anywhere that just now, the FBI was asked by local LE to assist? That may be the case but it also may be the case that they were asked right away but only now the FBI has determined they need to be involved.

Again, the FBI has automatic jurisdiction and per federal law must be notified of a missing child case immediately.

Finally, the vain and tragic hopes of a parent may not be pertinent to who or what agency gets involved in case.

I see a lot of bashing of LE on here. If we are going to do that, at least let such bashing be backed up by precise facts.

 

[Jules71]

If he's a longhaul truck driver (I think that's what he said?) his days and hours would be irregular, and he might get called in with little notice. Based on what I've seen here and elsewhere it doesn't surprise me the rumours started quickly. Maybe they started with coworkers.

Was it only 36 hours? I thought the interview was on the 13th.

My bad, 72 hours.

ETA: I edited my previous post.

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[gitana1]

I did't think that they hadn't been questioned, I'm even positive that they were questioned to the ability and knowledge that the local police are capable of, when was the last time this LE was dealing with a major crime such as abduction or murder. I just figure that the questioning from the FBI will be more in depth, I'm pretty sure that the FBI are more skilled in the art of interrogation,

Maybe from the start the LE was eyeing someone that was staying on that site and he has kept the information very close to the vest, maybe LE thought he could break that person, get them to confess, that hasn't happened so he is bringing in the FBI.

Okay. That makes more sense. But who is "he"? Again, local LE doesn't dictate whether the FBI gets involved or not. The FBI makes that determination and they had to have been notified of this case immediately.

I do think they are likely to get involved when asked though. But they are more likely going to get involved in interrogations or behavioral analysis when there is evidence of an abduction or foul play. Not to establish that evidence from the outset.

 

[bluesneakers]

Okay. That makes more sense. But who is "he"? Again, local LE doesn't dictate whether the FBI gets involved or not. The FBI makes that determination and they had to have been notified of this case immediately.

I do think they are likely to get involved when asked though. But they are more likely going to get involved in interrogations or behavioral analysis when there is evidence of an abduction or foul play. Not to establish that evidence from the outset.

So you think the FBI was notified or found out about it immediately but didn't get involved until now?

 

[MyBelle]

How can you be convinced it was not an abduction but not be able to rule it out?

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The Sheriff might think this is a case that involves parental abduction, not stranger abduction and that his nice guy attitude toward the parents will be the way to find DeOrr. The Lindbergh Act excludes parental abductions but because the Montana border is so close the FBI needs to be involved.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

Could you please quote where it states in the link that the FBI "has to be invited" to get involved? Because I read the link and did not see that. The FBI has automatic jurisdiction to investigate per the Lindbergh Law. They choose whether to investigate, whether invited or not. It is federal law that they be notified immediately.

Also, where does it state anywhere that just now, the FBI was asked by local LE to assist? That may be the case but it also may be the case that they were asked right away but only now the FBI has determined they need to be involved.

Again, the FBI has automatic jurisdiction and per federal law must be notified of a missing child case immediately.

Finally, the vain and tragic hopes of a parent may not be pertinent to who or what agency gets involved in case.

I see a lot of bashing of LE on here. If we are going to do that, at least let such bashing be backed up by precise facts.

The Lindbergh Act does not give the FBI automatic jurisdiction over every missing child. It specifically states that there must be evidence of INTERSTATE transport:

18 U.S. Code § 1201 - Kidnapping

(a) Whoever unlawfully seizes, confines, inveigles, decoys, kidnaps, abducts, or carries away and holds for ransom or reward or otherwise any person, except in the case of a minor by the parent thereof, when—
(1) the person is willfully transported in interstate or foreign commerce, regardless of whether the person was alive when transported across a State boundary, or the offender travels in interstate or foreign commerce or uses the mail or any means, facility, or instrumentality of interstate or foreign commerce in committing or in furtherance of the commission of the offense;

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1201

 

[Vail]

Could you show me where it has been reported that the sheriff just invited the FBI in? Also, has it been reported that they never notified the FBI per federal law, of this case until now? Because I haven't seen that.

I haven't either. I remember it stated very early on that several agencies were involved in the searches.

When I checked on Day 3 of this case, DeOrr was on NCMEC so it would seem they followed the correct process.

http://www.missingkids.com/poster/NCMC/1251277/1/screen


And the Idaho Criminal Intelligence Center was managing leads pretty early on. Once example:
http://www.idahostatejournal.com/me...cle_a1e0673c-29e7-11e5-a639-878d4368b6fe.html

For anyone curious of how the FBI collaborates with police at the state level, you can check out the ICIC website here:

https://www.isp.idaho.gov/icic/

It may be worth mentioning that once the FBI is fully involved, information is rarely made public if there is no amber alert.

 

[Jackeee]

I'm sure I heard a collective sigh of relief when we knew the FBI is now involved.

Please find this boy whose little face I will be able to picture in my mind for a very long time.

Just to clarify my comment. I'm in no way critical of the way LE has handled this. I think it's at the point though, where new eyes should look at the case. Different questioning and investigation techniques maybe? JMO

 

[skinnycat]

I hope that there is some one that has the skills to talk to GGP,

IR comment to the reporter did you talk to GGP, makes me wonder what GGP may have witnessed

Those picnic tables look like they are attached to cement slabs, if they are attached LE would have looked to see if slab may have been lifted then set back down, seen if weeds around it had been disturbed. Does anyone know if the picnic tables in that state park are on cement slabs?

 

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

The Sheriff seems more worried about being proved wrong than about finding the missing child. Apparently the grandfather was in good enough physical and mental condition to go to a rustic, primitive camp site but the sheriff has decided he is too frail to be interrogated. That's just as ridiculous as his failure to call in the FBI right away.

JMO

Where did you read that the GGP was too feeble to be interrogated?

 

[CatsInTheCradle]

Could you please quote where it states in the link that the FBI "has to be invited" to get involved? Because I read the link and did not see that. The FBI has automatic jurisdiction to investigate per the Lindbergh Law. They choose whether to investigate, whether invited or not. It is federal law that they be notified immediately.

Also, where does it state anywhere that just now, the FBI was asked by local LE to assist? That may be the case but it also may be the case that they were asked right away but only now the FBI has determined they need to be involved.

Again, the FBI has automatic jurisdiction and per federal law must be notified of a missing child case immediately.

Finally, the vain and tragic hopes of a parent may not be pertinent to who or what agency gets involved in case.

I see a lot of bashing of LE on here. If we are going to do that, at least let such bashing be backed up by precise facts.

BBM
Hi Gitana
What I see on here is perhaps a lack of confidence in the Sheriff's Department. Only speaking for myself here...we (my family) had three members who were LE. One was tragically killed in the line of duty. It was devastating to our family. Even with that upbringing/exposure, I still do not blindly believe in everything LE does and says. I have seen corruption, politics, secrecy, etc. too much in the last few years in the national news. So for me, I'm very very relieved that the FBI is being brought in, if nothing more than to assist a smaller office and offer more resources. Its like getting a second medical opinion. All JMO and I have wanted nothing more than for baby DeOrr to be found and truth/justice to prevail, whatever that might be. All JMO

 

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

Not me. I'd want to find my kid or great grand child. I would do anything and everything to assist LE in any way and lawyering up shuts that down immediately. And this is an attorney making that statement!!!

But as an attorney, you have a knowledge base about legal procedures, rights of accused, etc., that non-lawyers do not, which you would certainly draw upon when being questioned by LE. Would you advise the rest of us, who do not have that skill set, to refrain from utilizing counsel?

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[MyBelle]

So you think the FBI was notified or found out about it immediately but didn't get involved until now?

The FBI was notified so that DeOrr would be entered into the national data base created as part of the Missing Children's Act of 1982.

Being notified doesn't automatically get a field office "involved" in the active investigation because they work in partnership and are a resource to local and state law enforcement. I'm pretty sure the Sheriff is still the lead investigator in this case.

JMO