ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #5

Discussion in 'DeOrr Kunz, Jr.' started by bessie, Jul 27, 2015.

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  1. bluesneakers

    bluesneakers not today satan

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    Skills? Like sign language or something?
     


  2. MyBelle

    MyBelle Well-Known Member

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    BBM. I think that is exactly what is going on. I just wish it had happened sooner.

    JMO
     
  3. bluesneakers

    bluesneakers not today satan

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    I was asking gitana1 about her comment specifically, but thank you.

    So it's your opinion they are not yet involved if the Sheriff is still the lead investigator? Or do you mean he's the lead investigator even though the FBI has been called in?

    This is the actual quote from the Sheriff:
    I've always assumed once the FBI comes in they take over, but I honestly have no idea if that's true.
     
  4. SeriouslySearching

    SeriouslySearching Well-Known Member

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    Let's be real. The other agencies are not going to question or interrogate the reporting parties without permission from the main department. They are the ones to dictate how the case is handled and are responsible for overseeing interrogations of POIs/Suspects. While I am certain there has been questioning, I don't know how in depth the interrogation part of the program has gone with anyone. LE wants cooperation and if they pressure people, the cooperation goes away in most cases.
     
  5. MyBelle

    MyBelle Well-Known Member

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    I know someone who is an assistant U.S. Attorney and he told me that it is Justice Department policy that there be no public comment on an ongoing criminal investigation. Leaks to the media are not tolerated. In this case, I think the only public comments will come from the Sheriff's office.

    JMO
     
  6. SeriouslySearching

    SeriouslySearching Well-Known Member

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    No. The lead is always the local department who took on the case from the onset. FBI is there to assist.
     
  7. MyBelle

    MyBelle Well-Known Member

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    Good point. An attorney present will help ensure you don't incriminate yourself.

    JMO
     
  8. Jules71

    Jules71 Well-Known Member

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    I agree. And in your scenario, it is like getting a second opinion from a specialist rather than from another family dr. JMO

    Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk
     
  9. MyBelle

    MyBelle Well-Known Member

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    They work together. They don't take legal jurisdiction unless there is evidence of a federal crime. FBI has teams which are a resource available to the Sheriff but legal jurisdiction over the case still belongs to the Sheriff at this point in time.

    JMO


    The CARD team, created in 2006, has been deployed more than 100 times for approximately 108 victims, both domestically and—when requested—abroad. Numerous children have been located and safely returned to their loved ones. Tragically, the remains of victims have also been found—though this can at least provide some sort of closure for their families.

    The 60 or so agents who make up the CARD team are stationed at field offices around the country. Each is assigned to one of five regional teams that cover the Northeast, Southeast, North Central, South Central, and Western United States and are deployed at the request of a field office. Deployment size depends on the case and the particular needs of local responders.

    CARD team investigators are seasoned veterans of crimes against children cases—especially child abductions—and have received extensive training. While some local law enforcement agencies may only work one or two child abduction cases a year, CARD team agents work these kinds of cases all the time, keeping their unique skill set honed.

    https://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/20...ild-abductions/investigating-child-abductions
     
  10. skinnycat

    skinnycat Active Member

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    No like dealing with the elderly, my mom is well having issues, I've listened to her be questioned about things, amazing the different ways to word things to get to the bottom of something, and I think that the FBI will have someone that has the knowledge and the skills to be able to hopefully get some answers" I can't see GGP being to far gone or why would it matter to take GGP to a favorite spot
     
  11. bluesneakers

    bluesneakers not today satan

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    So, you think they're working together but not officially involved. Interesting. I would think once they're called in - I mean in this case they're sending a team of investigators - that counts as "involved." At least that's how I would explain it, whether or not the Sheriff is still the lead.

    Thanks.
     
  12. gitana1

    gitana1 Verified Attorney

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    Yes. The have to be notified immediately per federal law:

    The National Child Search Assistance Act (NCSA) is a U.S. federal legislation enacted in 1990. This Act requires each federal, state, local law enforcement agency to report each case of a missing child below the age of 21 to the National Crime Information Center (NCIC.)



    Some provisions of the NCSA was amended by the Adam Walsh Child Protection and Safety Act of 2006. Pursuant to the amendment, the NCSA is to require law enforcement to enter information about missing and abducted children in the NCIC database within two hours of receiving a report.


    http://definitions.uslegal.com/n/national-child-search-assistance-act/.

    BBM.

    The NCIC is the FBI database. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Crime_Information_Center

    Mybelle was linked to information about the CARD team. They are child abduction specialists within the FBI who deploy a rapid response to child abductions to assist LE or provide local LE with resources that local LE would not have. All they do are missing kid cases so CARD has a lot of experience, much more so than most local LE.

    But they offer their assistance and they typically deal with obvious abductions.

    In any event, "Congress gave the FBI jurisdiction under the “Lindbergh Law” to immediately investigate any reported mysterious disappearance or kidnapping involving a child of “tender age”—usually 12 or younger." https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/vc_majorthefts/cac/image/cac_agents1.jpg/view

    The FBI does not need permission from local LE. However, I think that in most cases they are careful not to step on toes and won't get involved without approval or a request by a parent, or an agency like the NCMEC.But in obvious abduction cases the CARD team immediately offers their assistance. We don't have evidence of an obvious abduction here though. This started out as a routine lost kid case. (IMO, it will likely end there as well).
     
  13. gitana1

    gitana1 Verified Attorney

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    First, understand that the "field office" is the FBI field office. Not local LE. Second, and again:

    The FBI was given jurisdiction under the “Lindbergh Law” in 1932 to immediately investigate any reported mysterious disappearance or kidnapping involving a child of “tender age”—usually 12 or younger. However, the FBI goes one step further, as any child missing under the age of 18 the FBI can become involved as an assisting agency to the local police department. There does not have to be a ransom demand, and the child does not have to cross state lines or be missing for 24 hours. Research indicates that the quicker the reporting of the mysterious disappearance or abduction, the more likely the successful outcome in returning the child unharmed.
    https://www.fbi.gov/cleveland/press-releases/2013/fbi-to-support-national-childrens-day

    Emphasis by me.

    There does NOT have to be evidence of a federal crime for the FBI to take jurisdiction. In other words, they can take over a missing kid case whenever they want.

    But I agree with you that they don't unless there is clear evidence of a federal crime or serious problems with local LE. Without that, they just assist.
     
  14. gitana1

    gitana1 Verified Attorney

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    I cannot, under state bar ethical rules, give any of you any advice. I can only tell you what I would advise a hypothetical client. I would never advise anyone who may be guilty of a crime to avoid hiring an attorney. But if the goal is finding a missing a child, and I was clear that there is no way the client is involved, my advice to my hypothetical client would be to do whatever it damn takes to assist LE in finding the child.

    You see, the attorney is really good for one thing at the outset of such cases - protecting the rights of a possible defendant. The attorney's advice to anyone categorized as a POI would be do not make a statement and do not take a polygraph.

    Such advice could prove catastrophic to any parent whose child is missing.

    However, some parents have hired attorneys later on when they've felt LE is not doing its job and to help them navigate the system, access info and put the pressure on.

    But listen, I am a family law attorney and only do minor criminal law appearances. Let me ask my law partner what he would say (he does criminal law).

    Regardless, the rights of the accused are to remain silent, have an attorney present, not consent to a search, etc. I would NEVER assert any of those rights myself if my child was missing...unless I was guilty of harming my child. Being in jail or arrested would be the very last of my concerns. Desperately finding my baby would be only thought. As it should be.

    There is a reason Polly Klaas' dad and Adam Walsh's dad repeatedly stress the importance of complying with LE and the significance when parents lawyer up.
     
  15. bluesneakers

    bluesneakers not today satan

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    I'm sorry about your mom.

    This is kind of cool though. It makes sense - when we talk to children we have certain ways to make it more effective, and as people age their perceptions and cognitive abilities can change as well.
     
  16. nervous_nellie

    nervous_nellie Carpe Noctem

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    :goodpost: I totally agree...and I know I cant be the only one with Mom and Dad as LE and it really bothers me to see any LE spoken about like this unless there is a really good reason. jmho
     
  17. persimmon

    persimmon New Member

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    It is not true that a missing child has to cross state lines in order for the FBI to become involved but I do believe there must be certain criteria met before they send their special missing child field team.
     
  18. travelbug

    travelbug Injustice anywhere a threat to justice everywhere

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    Perhaps he called in sick or made up an excuse about not going to work. This turn of events would certainly blow his cover and also have people questioning whether this was, indeed, a planned trip or a "spur of the moment" necessity. jmho
     
  19. Selah84

    Selah84 Active Member

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    Hi, haven't been keeping up very well. Just read a recent article the FBI is being brought in to possibly question people again. Does this mean there is a chance this has moved in the direction of a criminal invesrigation as opposed to an accident/missing child? Sorry for the ignorance and thank you in advance.
     
  20. IDTater

    IDTater Active Member

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    I understand that state lines don't have to be crossed for them to get involved. But if state lines are crossed, with absolute certainty, then it becomes a federal case, right? I guess I was just thinking out loud about the fact that a state line was mentioned, as if it has significance in this situation, when it doesn't necessarily, for the reason you stated. Just speculating because it seemed rather random.

    "Montana is close to Idaho!!"
     
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