ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #7

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Tonight I was reading backward to catch up on the new happenings from yesterday. So they may have arrived at the camp on Thursday night now? Well, that totally changes the story for me. Deorr may hare awakened first, got out of the tent/camper and gone wandering on his own. GGF and Friend took off in the other car to go the new campsite and left the 3 Deorr family at the Thursday site. An accident happened, ir they couldn't find Deorr so after a while they went to the new campsite.

Has any ground searches been done where they spent Thursday night? That area would be a good spot to check at this point Just my speculation. He does not appear to be in the first area they searched. However, this Thursday nite at another campsite is just coming out.

It is confirmed that they arrived on Thursday, I dont think they ever claimed they arrived on Friday, I think that was misreporting and speculation. It was was stated very early on by someone confirmed close to the situation that they arrived on Thursday, we just could not talk about it.

I do not think it is at all confirmed that there were two different campsites, if I am wrong someone please set me straight.
 
YES. I really thought his boots would have been found if he had just wandered off, or fell in water or was taken by animals. In any of those instances it seems like his boots would have been found by now.

If it true that his boots fell off easily and/or often then IMO he was taken from that area by someone, or concealed in that area by someone. He did not just wander off or get attacked by an animal.
 
This is from the "Information for Sex Offenders" web page from the Idaho Department of Corrections:
Sex Offenders under supervision with IDOC must adhere to the State of Idaho registration requirements, strictly follow the Sex Offender Agreement of Supervision, have monthly contact with their probation and parole officer, and submit to all polygraph testing and treatment requirements. http://www.idoc.idaho.gov/content/p...er_management/information_for_ sex_ offenders

Some other info from other areas:

Under Pennsylvania law, polygraph results are not admissible at trial because of their unreliability. Despite that, the tests are now being used by probation officers across the state to supervise sex offenders. “It’s really the gold standard,” said Allegheny County Common Pleas Judge Jill E. Rangos, who presides over sex offender court. “It is the most accurate way to gauge if treatment is working.”
http://www.post-gazette.com/news/state/2015/05/17/Lie-dete/stories/201505030109

(from a DC Public Safety interview transcript) We have the instant offense history which addresses the offense of conviction in conjunction with the official version. We have the sexual history which looks at the entire sex offending behavior of the offender. Then we have the maintenance or the monitoring polygraph which is given to those offenders already on supervision and during the course of supervision to review issues concerning compliance with treatment, compliance with supervision and may adjust supervision controls on the offender should new information come to light.
http://media.csosa.gov/podcast/transcripts/2008/04/lie-detector-tests-for-sex-offenders/

Paroled sex offenders in California must take periodic lie detector tests and participate in more treatment programs in response to calls for stricter oversight in recent years. On Thursday, state officials said they are backing the new effort with millions in additional funding. The state spent about $8.5 million on contractors who provide polygraph exams, treatment programs and other sex offender services last year, and plans to more than double that budget to $18.3 million this year. http://www.ocregister.com/articles/sex-647591-offender-state.html

Thanks so much starfire for that link. I really had NO idea that routine polygraphs are used and required. Since they don't stand up in court, I just didn't think they would be considered a useful tool in these cases. Guess they are though.
 
It is confirmed that they arrived on Thursday, I dont think they ever claimed they arrived on Friday, I think that was misreporting and speculation. It was was stated very early on by someone confirmed close to the situation that they arrived on Thursday, we just could not talk about it.

I do not think it is at all confirmed that there were two different campsites, if I am wrong someone please set me straight.

I agree with you that it was misreporting/speculation about them arriving on Friday in the first place. It is now confirmed they arrived on Thursday. I believe the two different campsites was just speculation.
 
I know 2-year-olds can be quick, but I keep thinking about the "oversized cowboy boots" he was wearing. The PI said they were so big they kept falling off. And one of the grandfathers (the one who lives with him) indicated little Deorr is not a steady walker even on level ground. And the ground there looks so rocky, I can't picture him getting too far if he took the boots off or if they fell off -- seems it would be painful to walk (and if he did take them off, where are they?)

Hey Starfire, Where did the PI say that they were so big they kept falling off? Was that in the East Idaho News interview? I must have missed it. If it's true, it's pretty relevant to the case. Really makes the wandering off scenario even less likely, IMO.
 
http://www********************************

Harry is the C.E.O. and SAR coordinator of I.K.9.S.A.R.S..

Harry has trained over 6,500 dogs and handlers all over the world for SAR.

He's won hundreds of local awards for life saving and community service to include the Higgins and Langley Swift Water Rescue Award, the National Jefferson Award,

The International K-9 Services Life Saving Award and three letters from the President of The United States of America.

Harry is a former police officer of 12 years, Emergency Medical Tech of 26 years, and is currently a full time as the coordinator for K-9 SAR Services, on call 24 hrs a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year to respond anywhere in the world to locate missing people or pets.
He also now consults for attorneys, media, SAR teams, embassies, regarding missing persons, disasters, and search dogs.
 
http://www********************************

Harry is the C.E.O. and SAR coordinator of I.K.9.S.A.R.S..

Harry has trained over 6,500 dogs and handlers all over the world for SAR.

He's won hundreds of local awards for life saving and community service to include the Higgins and Langley Swift Water Rescue Award, the National Jefferson Award,

The International K-9 Services Life Saving Award and three letters from the President of The United States of America.

Harry is a former police officer of 12 years, Emergency Medical Tech of 26 years, and is currently a full time as the coordinator for K-9 SAR Services, on call 24 hrs a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year to respond anywhere in the world to locate missing people or pets.
He also now consults for attorneys, media, SAR teams, embassies, regarding missing persons, disasters, and search dogs.

Hi White Rabbit!! :) a response from you in particular is awesome!! So this guy Harry Oaks knows what he's doing? I am confused about the PI saying abduction and yet they are bringing in a private SAR. Would this guy be looking for evidence of an abduction?
 
Anyone know anything about Harry Oaks? Apparently he may be getting involved in this case. He claims Dk asked him to. This is from SM, his personal Facebook page.

https://m.facebook.com/profile.php?id=34322543997

I'm not sure what I'm allowed to say. Yes, I know of him. And, ummmm I hope that what you say does not happen. Just my opinion? Hopefully that is allowed.
 
Well I read an old story once about a guy that liked to chase ambulances... apparently it was quite lucrative.
 
Hey Starfire, Where did the PI say that they were so big they kept falling off? Was that in the East Idaho News interview? I must have missed it. If it's true, it's pretty relevant to the case. Really makes the wandering off scenario even less likely, IMO.

Good morning :) He said something about it when I talked to him, however in the interview he also mentioned the boots were too big for Deorr and he kept walking out of them. Starts at about 0:54

[video=youtube;-78P5ayOlRc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-78P5ayOlRc[/video]
 
Anyone know anything about Harry Oaks? Apparently he may be getting involved in this case. He claims Dk asked him to. This is from SM, his personal Facebook page.

https://m.facebook.com/profile.php?id=34322543997

"Checkered past follows search and rescue worker"
http://tdn.com/business/local/check...3a-8589-7da052ca7c11.html#.VcyK8NYwkZc.mailto

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]It was the stuff of a hero story: Harry E. Oakes and his search dog, Valorie, finding Honduran flooding victims following Hurricane Mitch in 1998.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]The Longview dog handler and his canine partner were among the search teams featured Sunday on "Storm Stories," the Weather Channel top-rated show.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]In the show, firefighters in Honduras praised teams such as Oakes and Valoire for their rescue work and for taking their dogs to a local orphanage to cheer up traumatized children.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Despite the favorable portrayal, and Oakes' recent move to the local area, Oakes is persona non grata in local search and rescue circles. Officials say they're wary of Oakes' checkered financial past and his claimed record of success.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]"He is no longer eligible to do search and rescue in Cowlitz County, like in a number of other areas," said Art Jordan, volunteer coordinator for Cowlitz County Search and Rescue and member of the state's Emergency Management Council.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Oakes, 49, acknowledges that county sheriffs who head up search and rescue operations often don't like him, but that's because his work is so good.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]"Sheriffs often get upset when we come in and find people they can't," he said in an interview last week.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Oakes claims to have found the bodies of Ashley Pond and Miranda Gaddis, two Oregon City girls murdered by neighbor Ward Weaver in 2002, but others dispute that.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]"Nobody used him in Oregon City, because he's not reliable," said Marty Neiman, with Search One K-9 Detection, an Oregon nonprofit called in by authorities investigating the case.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Neiman said Oakes showed up on the scene and volunteered his services but was not used in the official search. In a later, unofficial search, Oakes' search results were so general as to be useless, Neiman said.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Oakes runs International K-9 Search and Rescue Services, a for-profit organization, a rarity in search and rescue circles. In fact, Oakes describes his company as "the only for-profit K-9 search and rescue in the nation."[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]He typically charges $200 an hour for staging and searching, as well as $25 an hour for travel time, according to his website. He said much of his work is searching for pets, which Oakes said can be more profitable than searching for people.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]"People won't hesitate paying for a dogs or cat," he said. "People won't pay for you for their child."[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Cowlitz County Coroner Mike Nichols, a former Search and Rescue coordinator for the county, said volunteer search and rescue crews don't agree with the concept of for-profit search and rescue services.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]"Other than Harry Oakes, I don't know of anybody else who hires out to distraught families and promises to find their kin," Nichols said.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Nichols said Cowlitz County's search and rescue volunteers will look for anyone who is missing and don't ask for payment. Volunteers tend to spend a lot of their own money on equipment, training and transportation. "We only work as volunteers here," he said.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Nichols and Jordan said Oakes' reputation in Oregon preceded him when he came to Washington from Portland a year ago.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]"He wasn't welcome within search camps within his own state," Nichols said.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]In Oregon, Oakes formerly was with Mountain Wilderness Search Dogs and Help Us Find You, Inc., which both were registered as nonprofit organizations. In the late 1990s, both came under investigation by the Oregon Department of Justice, which claimed that Oakes was using the nonprofits as a tax dodge.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]"He uses MWSD and HUFY to avoid paying taxes by virtue of their tax-exempt status," the department said in a 1997 court settlement with Oakes.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]At the time, the agency said, Oakes did not have a personal bank account and used the nonprofits' accounts as his own, paying his personal and living expenses out of them.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]The department signed an order with Oakes forbidding him to represent himself as a charity of any kind or representing his professional locating services as a public service.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Oakes said he was cleared by the investigation.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]"We came out squeaky clean," he said. "There was no criminal action brought against us."[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]The department did require Oakes to pay $7,500, but suspended the fine on the condition he not violate the order. Oakes said the fine was never imposed.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]More inquiries[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]An Oregon Justice Department concern involved Oakes' search for bodies at the site of the 1995 bombing of the Alfred Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]The agency said Mountain Wilderness received a $4,000 donation from a canine club in Oklahoma. Oakes immediately was reimbursed for $3,000 in "expenses" he claimed but failed to document, according to the justice department.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]The state also found that while Oakes was running Mountain Wilderness, he claimed round-trip mileage for a trip to Disney World in Florida in connection with operation of the nonprofits. He later acknowledged that the only business done there had been to drop off an unsolicited packet of information at Disney World offices, and the trip was actually a vacation, according to the justice department.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]After the state investigations, the Mountain Wilderness Search and Rescue board in 1997 fired Oakes, the Group's CEO and founder.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Oakes later started International K-9 Search and Rescue Services, his current for-profit company. The 1997 agreement between Oakes and state of Oregon bars him from charging anyone for services if he has volunteered in the search for the same or victim.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Oakes, who answers his phone "search and rescue," said he is careful to make it clear to potential clients that he is not with a government agency.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]The Weather Channel program made no mention of Oakes' for-profit status, but it did note that he and a fellow dog handler had to pay their own way to Honduras. Contributions were not sought on the program.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Weather Channel spokeswoman Kathy Lane said Oakes' business dealings were unrelated to its program.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]"That would have nothing to do with the story we portrayed," she said.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Lane said Towers Productions Inc. of Chicago produces Storm Stories under contract. Towers officials were unavailable for comment.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]In addition to questions about Oakes' financial dealings, search and rescue officials have doubts about the quality of Oakes' search work, said Cowlitz County Sheriff's Deputy Chuck Dunnavant, the county's search and rescue coordinator.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]"He'll point to a spot on the river and say 'He drowned right there,' and there's no way to prove it," Dunnavant said.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]While with Mountain Wilderness, Oakes participated in high-profile search for two Longview men, Larry Mansur and Dennis Svoboda, who were missing and presumed dead after a boating accident on the Columbia River off Cowlitz County in 1996.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]During the hunt, Oakes told officials that Valorie had found the spot where they died, Nichols said. Months later, one of the bodies was found upriver from that spot, leading local search and rescue personnel to doubt the validity of Oakes "[/FONT]"I've never heard of a body going upstream," Nichols said.
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Copyright 2015 Longview Daily News. All rights reserved. [/FONT]
 
Well I read an old story once about a guy that liked to chase ambulances... apparently it was quite lucrative.

Note that he says he "just got off the phone with DeOrr". He did not say that DeOrr called him. It could be that the SAR person reached out to the child's father and DeOrr just said something like, sure send me an estimate.
 
http://m.localnews8.com/news/private...ddler/34678944



[/B]--I don't get it, who took the ride w/ the woman to get gas?

http://m.localnews8.com/news/private-detective-joins-search-for-missing-toddler/34678944

--video @ link:

reporter: "He (P.I.) questions why the Sheriff's Office never followed through on the tip about the Buick he rec'd this morning."

--P.I. Vilt then says that he's called the dept. and they haven't returned his calls.

--how could the Sheriff's office have followed through on this tip that HE rec'd today, if it came in to HIS tip line?

--and why did this person wait a month w/ this tip of the sighting?

LE has not taken tips of sightings seriously since day 1...they ruled out an abduction right away, remember. There has been hundreds of tips phoned in, and they are not being taken seriously...no one is following up. People have complained on the Lemhi County Sheriff's page asking why they didn't follow up on leads they had phoned in 2 weeks prior.
I've said from the beginning, the phone numbers the family has on their posters are useless. The unbelieving Sheriff's office tip line...is useless. They needed another phone number with a direct link to the parents. This one is it and I'm thrilled Mr. Vilt set one up. They should be able to get somewhere now. JMO
 
Another random thought. Do ATV's have storage compartments, and if so, how large?

They can have storage attached to the back, but I can't see it as anything that would easily accommodate a child. They're also pretty noisy -- no way someone could ride up on an ATV unnoticed.
 
Good morning :) He said something about it when I talked to him, however in the interview he also mentioned the boots were too big for Deorr and he kept walking out of them. Starts at about 0:54
Thanks Starfire! I didn't know that you talked to him. Good work! I'll go back and read some of your posts.
 
I hope the family won't be taken advantage of by vultures.
 
They are young and probably don't realize that the vultures crawl out of the woodwork with cases like this. jmo

They just want to find their little boy and are desperate to do so. Anyone who "offers" their services is going to be welcomed, IMO, and I don't blame them.
 
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