ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #7

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slashkiss said:
I always buy my daugther's boots big - at least 1 or 2 sizes up from what she is wearing. Boots are expensive and their shoe size changes every few months so if you want them to last at least a year you buy big! She LOVED boots and would stomp around in them any chance she had. When she was 2 and 3 she wasn't walking/hiking long distances so it didn't really matter how big they were or if they were falling off. She loved them and that was all she cared about. I honestly think she liked them big because they were fun to walk in just like when she would slip her foot in my shoes and stomp around the house.

I don't see anything weird or wrong about this little guy having boots that were too big aside from the fact that they haven't been found. This leads me to believe they are with him wherever he is! My thoughts are that those boots either helped his little feet find their way to some water or they are on his body somewhere in those woods and just haven't been found.
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I wonder if he was also wearing socks. I'd also like to know what the boots were made of and what they looked like. Actually, I'd like to see a picture of the boots, just to get a better idea. When little Jerold went missing in Arizona, the flyer eventually showed a picture of the same type of shoes he'd been wearing and even included a picture of the soles, as well as the brand.

I only have a vague idea of what his camo cowboy boots look like. Why not include a picture of the clothes he was wearing, even if it's a stock photo of similar clothes. What size was his jacket? What size were his pj pants? Were they dark blue or light blue? Was he wearing a pull-up or underwear? Was he not wearing a shirt?
 
giagreen said:
Would the grandfather and his friend help and lie for them?
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We haven't heard either of their accounts, so maybe they didn't lie. Maybe they just said they didn't know anything about what happened. Maybe Isaac and grandpa didn't even arrive until Friday. Did they even see Deorr? Who knows.... Maybe that is why LE hasn't released their statements?
 
desert-blue said:
What if the store sighting was at 6:00 PM Thursday. Then they went to the campground and something bad happened at some point Thursday night. Someone buried the body or hid it somewhere. This person gets nervous when the search is underway and worries the body will be found. So, on Saturday, this person breaks a window in a truck and uses the EMT bag to go out and get the body and put it in the bag and then leaves the campground with the bag and body to dispose of it elsewhere. This would explain why they want the store sighting to be on Friday instead of Thursday and also explains the EMT bag. Just a thought.
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I do think it's very possible that there was some sort of accident (even leaving the little boy asleep in the car while setting up, not realizing how hot it might get) and one of both parents had to cover. The dad's tears at the end of the interview seemed genuine, but the rest of the interview made it seem like he was deflecting.


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slashkiss said:
I always buy my daugther's boots big - at least 1 or 2 sizes up from what she is wearing. Boots are expensive and their shoe size changes every few months so if you want them to last at least a year you buy big! She LOVED boots and would stomp around in them any chance she had. When she was 2 and 3 she wasn't walking/hiking long distances so it didn't really matter how big they were or if they were falling off. She loved them and that was all she cared about. I honestly think she liked them big because they were fun to walk in just like when she would slip her foot in my shoes and stomp around the house.

I don't see anything weird or wrong about this little guy having boots that were too big aside from the fact that they haven't been found. This leads me to believe they are with him wherever he is! My thoughts are that those boots either helped his little feet find their way to some water or they are on his body somewhere in those woods and just haven't been found.
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OR the oversized boots filled with water when he fell into the reservoir or creek and they are keeping him weighted down.
 
pepelepolecat said:
They can have storage attached to the back, but I can't see it as anything that would easily accommodate a child. They're also pretty noisy -- no way someone could ride up on an ATV unnoticed.
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Thanks for your reply. I guess I was thinking more along the lines of afterwards during the search/confusion than the actual possible abduction while GGPa was watching him. But probably doesn't sound like a viable theory. Thanks again.
 
Isn't the reservoir said to be basically very clear and about 3 feet deep? I may not be recalling correctly. We're beyond the point where DeOrr would have floated up but the boots could keep him weighted down I guess.
I hope he is found soon.
Too many oddities involved for me.
jmho
ETA: what about someone having a horse waiting? Very little noise and sure footed to cover a lot of ground very quickly. thinking out loud
 
wondering25 said:
OR the oversized boots filled with water when he fell into the reservoir or creek and they are keeping him weighted down.
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Question? Are all those people who have drowned and whose bodies have surfaced been barefoot or were some wearing shoes or boots? The boots "filled with water" would not hold him down unless they/he was wedged between something heavy, like a rock.
 
Any grizzly bears in the area? They found a man in Yellowstone the other day who had been missing and it was clear he had been mauled to death and partially consumed by a grizzly and her 2 cubs. They are testing the bears to see if they can find the man's DNA in them. (I guess stomach contents or stool??) If so, the animals will be euthanized per the news report i saw online. In this case, however, a body WAS found. As good as SAR can be, there are mistakes made, areas overlooked, forbidding circumstances etc. I find it very telling that Sheriff Bowerman went on a limb and said he (Deorr) isnt up there based on the search ( proven ability of the dogs etc). He must be pretty darn sure.. JMO
 
ILOKAL said:
Question? Are all those people who have drowned and whose bodies have surfaced been barefoot or were some wearing shoes or boots? The boots "filled with water" would not hold him down unless they/he was wedged between something heavy, like a rock.
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I dont know who drowned with shoes or not.. but i am thinking that if the boots were oversized and wide at the top then water would get in them and weigh down a body. i realize the gases of decomposition might make him float to the top eventually.. BUT we are talking small body mass to decompose and possibly being caught on something? Maybe the gases just didn't cause enough bloat to compensate for being caught on something and weighted down.

One more thing.. someone brought up the vault toilets earlier. EVEN IF THEY WERE PUMPED OUT.. what does that prove? I would think you would have to get down in the muck of it to find a little body.. otherwise the sludge just goes from the "toliet" to the truck.JMO
 
wondering25 said:
I dont know who drowned with shoes or not.. but i am thinking that if the boots were oversized and wide at the top then water would get in them and weigh down a body. i realize the gases of decomposition might make him float to the top eventually.. BUT we are talking small body mass to decompose and possibly being caught on something? Maybe the gases just didn't cause enough bloat to compensate for being caught on something and weighted down. One more thing.. someone brought up the vault toilets earlier. EVEN IF THEY WERE PUMPED OUT.. what does that prove? I would think you would have to get down in the muck of it to find a little body.. otherwise the sludge just goes from the "toliet" to the truck.JMO
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Cadaver dogs led law enforcement directly to the reservoir but Bowerman said unrelated cremated remains dumped into the water during the search likely prompted the canines' interest. A search of the reservoir using advanced sonar equipment yielded nothing, he said.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/07/20/searches-reservoir-wolf-den-yield-no-clues-in-hunt-for-idaho-toddler/
 
wondering25 said:
Any grizzly bears in the area? They found a man in Yellowstone the other day who had been missing and it was clear he had been mauled to death and partially consumed by a grizzly and her 2 cubs. They are testing the bears to see if they can find the man's DNA in them. (I guess stomach contents or stool??) If so, the animals will be euthanized per the news report i saw online. In this case, however, a body WAS found. As good as SAR can be, there are mistakes made, areas overlooked, forbidding circumstances etc. I find it very telling that Sheriff Bowerman went on a limb and said he (Deorr) isnt up there based on the search ( proven ability of the dogs etc). He must be pretty darn sure.. JMO
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I must have missed that statement! I didn't even know Sheriff Bowerman said little Deorr isn't up there. I thought he said he couldn't rule out drowning, animal, or abduction. Would you please post that link? Thanks so much.
 
I've locked this thread for clean up, which could take awhile. I've just scrolled through over 200 posts of mostly garbage. Does anyone even bother to check facts at all? Heck, some can't even get the FB rumors straight.

And why in the world would you think it's okay to 1) post some random tidbit you read on FB, then 2) not include a link? Do you really think your post will stand if you omit the link?

The rules here are simple, I can't believe anyone truly doesn't understand them.

1) Post a FACT
2) Include a LINK
3) Discuss

Plain, simple common sense.

There are sites which promote gossip. WS isn't one if them.
 
The thread is open for posting again.
 
ILOKAL said:
I must have missed that statement! I didn't even know Sheriff Bowerman said little Deorr isn't up there. I thought he said he couldn't rule out drowning, animal, or abduction. Would you please post that link? Thanks so much.
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I mis-spoke.. here is what was said:
SHERIFF REPORTS TO COMMISSIONERS 7-13-15 LMS

Sheriff Lynn Bowerman told the Lemhi County Commissioners Monday, July 13, that based on the intense and extensive search conducted near Leadore for two year old Deorr Kunz Jr., it doesn’t make sense that the boy was not found.

Bowerman said the trained search dogs found nothing and kept coming back to the camp. Helicopters were used day and night to fly the area and fly over Stone Reservoir which is shallow enough to see to the bottom. He said divers explored the lake while approximately 150 volunteers on foot and on horseback conducted a thorough three mile grid-search of Timber Creek. The possibility of abduction by bear, wolf or mountain lion is not being ruled out although no trace of the boy or his apparel, which included oversized cowboy boots, was found.

The small boy disappeared Friday, July 10, from the Timber Creek Campground at Stone Reservoir. Bowerman said Timber Creek terrain is steep and rugged and is a mix of sagebrush and timber. He said given the proven expertise of the dogs the boy should have been found the first day.

Commissioner Chairman Rick Snyder described the area where the family was camped as being at the lake’s outlet which is very steep with very fast moving water flowing through brush and trees and limbs, all of which were pulled apart by searchers. Bowerman said people in wet suits were in the creek searching every hole.

The search has been officially suspended. The sheriff said investigators from Bonneville and Bingham counties have offered assistance in further follow-up investigations into any possible criminal histories of those involved.

http://lemhiweb.com/content/search-recap
 
I have a question about the dogs. It seems the SAR dogs were drawn to the reservoir several times. If they were not trained as cadaver dogs, would the cremains "confuse" the dogs? It seems like detecting cremains is a special scent dog skill. Just trying to figure out which dogs tracked a scent to the reservoir: Search dogs or cadaver dogs. TIA

ETA: I see they were cadaver dogs. The regular scent dogs never caught a scent - just kept circling back to the campsite? I can't find an article stating the dogs kept circling back to the campsite. Does anyone have one?

http://www.nbcnews.com/dateline/ida...ve-days-after-wandering-away-campsite-n392776

I found this article that says they used dogs right away. There was some question of when they first brought in dogs IIRC.
Deorr Kunz Jr. went missing on July 10. A missing person report was filed at about 2:30 p.m., and crews using a helicopter and search dogs immediately began looking for the boy.
http://xtremeidaho.com/authorities-in-lemhi-county-scale-back-search-for-missing-boy/
 
white rabbit said:
apologies for even mentioning the tampons, reposting without that word as it wasn't my point:


right there with you desertblue...

IMO I'm discounting anything the PI or a new SAR team come in with, regardless of how they were hired nor by whom. the PI is already biased as he has a prior relationship with the family (http://www.localnews8.com/news/priva...ddler/34678944) and tells us they were buying French fries when the family said candy. K9's won't be very effective at this point as the 'scene' is beyond contaminated after one month and thousands of boots & paws on the ground.

which leaves us back at square (camp) one. when exactly did the family arrive at timber creek and did cameras on 93 or the stage shop capture anything or any one at any time?

ETA: IMO, candy, French fries, and his cowboy boots are extraneous detail having nothing to do with his disappearance. deorr sr & jm did point out the black truck and that it was a 'problem'. regardless of the clerk's timing, they themselves pointed it out. and the omittance of the exact time of arrival is information that is sensitive.

so IMO the black truck, the store, the campsite and timing are relevant...how, I have NO clue...JMO...
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bbm

What I want to know is why these are the details we are hearing most about? We are hearing little about the details one would expect to hear (timeline, cars, sleeping arrangements, where everyone was, etc) and instead we are hearing a lot about oversized cowboy boots, blanket, sippy cup, monkey, trip to store for candy/fries. Why is this? Is it to sell the abduction theory? Is it to show that he had to have been abducted because 1) he was for sure on this trip, he was seen at the store, 2) he may have been at the store with his abductor at 6 pm, 3) he would have taken his blanket if he wandered away, 4) his boots would have fallen off if he just wandered away.

IMO we keep hearing about these things to prove he was taken.

What I also want to know is, would an abductor really worry about his boots falling off? What does an abductor care if they fall off? I can't imagine an abductor being concerned with his shoes.

I think all the buzz going on right now was at the advice of the PI. I think he probably said something along the lines of the court of public opinion thinks you're guilty and so you need to get busy doing something. Make t-shirts, hire Harry Oakes, etc. I think it is in an effort to change public opinion. If they are confident he was abducted, what good is Harry going to do - after an advanced search operation already took place? Are they going to tell Harry a different place to look??

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