ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #9

[Mickshawn]

I'm having trouble with one word. Can somebody please listen and help me out? Once I fix it, I will submit transcripts - both uncut and the initial one.

Thanks

APPROX 9:13 on the audio:

Sheriff Bowerman:
“Well, some old ones. We haven’t found any fresh dens, but uh, just over the top of the divide there is a _________ and we understand they’ve had some issues over there with some wolves, and they’ve taken out some of the uh…some of the wolves in order to eliminate the problem, so…”
[video=youtube;FV-h82eVQ1M]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FV-h82eVQ1M&list=PLHxHvR1OFyNDkpZrKmKgKJCsujxaoOlUU[/video]

Never heard this word but did find this:
http://fishandgame.idaho.gov/public/fish/?getPage=102

Try Googling "Pahsimeroi"

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

You see I totally believe GGP about the day and manner that DeOrr went missing, GGP saw DeOrr. What I don't believe is that if he went over that embankment that he wasn't found there. SOMEONE had to have found him, but who? And if that's the case, and he was hurt, why not call 911? That's as far as I'm willing to go out on my limb. JMHO

Nothing seems to add up. The GGP would know being there before that there are bears and wolves in the area. You'd think he'd at least shout to the parents to warn them Deorr was coming/out of sight
if he himself couldn't go after him.

Sheriff Bowerman even says that bears and wolves were going right through camp with all searches there.

 

[Jules71]

Geez this far into the investigation and the LE and his deputy can't confirm one way or the other if there are cameras at the store or the gas station

I think there are working cameras at the stage stop. I think from the get-go LE instructed the store to comment that there are no working cameras to see if they can get anyone to slip up.

Apparently people from all over the internet have called to ask if they have cameras and were told no or told they are not working. Would the store really want people knowing they have non working or no cameras? I would think not.

But then again the sheriff said he'd be surprised if any place in Leadore had cameras -it's such a small town.

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[TxJan1971]

I also noticed the sheriff with his head down most the time...Im not a body reader so don't know exactly what that implies. I'd say the oversized cowboy boots do make a difference if he is truly walking out of them. No way he would not have lost one on that rugged terrain had he been walking around there very long if that statement was true. Or if he had been attacked by a mountain lion or wolf and his body went limp, they would have fallen off. So if the statement about them falling off when he walks was true then to me it is significant.

Don't forget Deorr Jr allegedly had Hot Wheel cars/trucks in his pocket and was reported to have been playing with one. They haven't been located yet (to our knowledge).

--
On Thursday, his grandfather (Note this grandfather is DK, Sr.’s father who was not camping) told HLN TV that Deorr had been playing with a toy hot wheels car on the afternoon of his disappearance.
http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/07/dive-crews-using-grid-system-food-coloring-in-search-for-deorr/

AND
“He had little toy Hot Wheel trucks in his pocket and nothing fell. They found nothing. It’s like he vanished without a trace. He had to have been abducted. The only good thing about being abducted is it means he’s is still alive,” says Kunz.
http://www.hlntv.com/article/2015/07/17/deorr-kunz-missing-family-fear-abducted

 

[TxJan1971]

Never heard this word but did find this:
http://fishandgame.idaho.gov/public/fish/?getPage=102

Try Googling "Pahsimeroi"

Thanks, Mickshawn. Someone else suggested the same so that's what I went with since it made the most sense! Thanks everyone (named and unnamed) for helping me out with that!

 

[Onebest]

These were cadaver dogs being trained; therefore, one would assume that cadaver dogs are capable of hitting on cremains if they're being trained with them.

The scent dogs would be looking for the missing child. The cadaver dogs would be looking for a deceased person.

Yes they are! You are totally correct. Cremains are just another scent source for a cadaver dogs scent "inventory". Mine are trained on cremains, I have taken some and shared with other teams so their dogs can be trained. Cadaver dogs are used in home fires and forest fires successfully. We have no way of knowing exactly what a dog smells. If you introduce them to a scent, ask them to work it in a hide and they do it successfully then most would believe that the dog has an ability to find that odor.

Another issue here is that cadaver dogs deployed in water should also be certified in water work. That is another training all in itself. The dog could work the scent source from land, shore line and/or in a boat. Each venue is a different training, different certification.

 

[SweetT]

Don't forget Deorr Jr allegedly had Hot Wheel cars/trucks in his pocket and was reported to have been playing with one. They haven't been located yet (to our knowledge).

--
On Thursday, his grandfather (Note this grandfather is DK, Sr.’s father who was not camping) told HLN TV that Deorr had been playing with a toy hot wheels car on the afternoon of his disappearance.
http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/07/dive-crews-using-grid-system-food-coloring-in-search-for-deorr/

AND
“He had little toy Hot Wheel trucks in his pocket and nothing fell. They found nothing. It’s like he vanished without a trace. He had to have been abducted. The only good thing about being abducted is it means he’s is still alive,” says Kunz.
http://www.hlntv.com/article/2015/07/17/deorr-kunz-missing-family-fear-abducted

Oh yea right, thanks for reminding me. If he had one in his hand it would definitely have fallen out of his hand with a predator attack, or possibly even falling. It's like he made it to the edge of the woods and vanished... I did theorize at one time that he fell into that creek downstream of his parents and possibly got picked up by someone further down stream and saved (Kidnapped) from there. However I don't feel that any of the peeps that were camping with him would have had time to sneak off with him..but a random predator (Person) or animal that just happened to be in the area would IMO...

 

[katydid23]

Yes they are! You are totally correct. Cremains are just another scent source for a cadaver dogs scent "inventory". Mine are trained on cremains, I have taken some and shared with other teams so their dogs can be trained. Cadaver dogs are used in home fires and forest fires successfully. We have no way of knowing exactly what a dog smells. If you introduce them to a scent, ask them to work it in a hide and they do it successfully then most would believe that the dog has an ability to find that odor.

Another issue here is that cadaver dogs deployed in water should also be certified in water work. That is another training all in itself. The dog could work the scent source from land, shore line and/or in a boat. Each venue is a different training, different certification.

Thank You, OneBest. Good information.

What do you think it means that the dogs kept returning to the campsite? Does it mean anything?

 

[Dee10]

Yes they are! You are totally correct. Cremains are just another scent source for a cadaver dogs scent "inventory". Mine are trained on cremains, I have taken some and shared with other teams so their dogs can be trained. Cadaver dogs are used in home fires and forest fires successfully. We have no way of knowing exactly what a dog smells. If you introduce them to a scent, ask them to work it in a hide and they do it successfully then most would believe that the dog has an ability to find that odor.

Another issue here is that cadaver dogs deployed in water should also be certified in water work. That is another training all in itself. The dog could work the scent source from land, shore line and/or in a boat. Each venue is a different training, different certification.

What do you make of none of the numerous # of dogs following any scent or to the reservoir & back, any thoughts??? TIA

 

[jmcgladr]

I don't know kiddo. It looks pretty clear to me.

We lived on a lake and the water was so clear we could see all the way to the bottom except in the middle where it was so deep.

We would watch minnows and blue gill. It was so interesting to the kiddos.

My point in all this is if this reservoir is clear and shallow..say 5ft deep they could almost look for a child in the water.

They spent a lot of days searching that reservoir and even with the problem of the cremains and the dogs I truly believe if that reservoir was their true belief in what happened to little DeOrr they would still be there.

So that's my story and I'm sticking to it!

It doesn't matter how silty or clear the water in the reservoir is, really, IMO - Deorr's body would have emerged by now if it was in the reservoir. Silt won't hold a body down once it starts filling with gases - sorry to be graphic. The longest it would have taken for the body to emerge is about 3 weeks. He's not in the reservoir. The creek, I'm not so sure of. It would be possible, perhaps, for Deorr's body to get stuck under a rock or log in the creek and not float to the surface, assuming a strong current.

 

[ClaireNC]

Thanks, Mickshawn. Someone else suggested the same so that's what I went with since it made the most sense! Thanks everyone (named and unnamed) for helping me out with that!

It looks like the campground is in or very close to what is called the Pahsimeroi Area on the National Forest website: http://www.fs.usda.gov/recarea/scnf/recreation/recarea/?recid=77804&actid=34

The Pahsimeroi and Lemhi Mountains provide the setting for some amazing recreational opportunities.

 

[katydid23]

YES. If he had toppled down that embankment, wouldn't they have found his toy cars? Did he put them in his pocket first?

He could be in the water, but I cant believe his boots have not been found. And wouldn't his precious little self have floated to the surface by now? Even if there is mud and silt, the gases would send him to the top, right? Or am I incorrect? :cry:

ETA: Thank you Jmc, I just now saw your post.

 

[ClaireNC]

It doesn't matter how silty or clear the water in the reservoir is, really, IMO - Deorr's body would have emerged by now if it was in the reservoir. Silt won't hold a body down once it starts filling with gases - sorry to be graphic. The longest it would have taken for the body to emerge is about 3 weeks. He's not in the reservoir. The creek, I'm not so sure of. It would be possible, perhaps, for Deorr's body to get stuck under a rock or log in the creek and not float to the surface, assuming a strong current.

Yeah, we would have known it by now if he was in the reservoir. The creek really doesn't seem possible either. I believe somebody said it is only about a foot deep. I've hiked and camped in Idaho and generally in the summer the creeks are very shallow and clear. I just don't really see him floating very far down the creek. They thoroughly searched the creek near the campground.

 

[ClaireNC]

These were cadaver dogs being trained; therefore, one would assume that cadaver dogs are capable of hitting on cremains if they're being trained with them.

The scent dogs would be looking for the missing child. The cadaver dogs would be looking for a deceased person.

The cadaver dogs they use were being trained? That's the first time I'm hearing that piece of info. Where did it come from?

IIRC they had two different types of dogs. Scent dogs the first few days and the cadaver dogs were brought in a few days later. Is that how everybody else understands it?

 

[ninij9]

In the uncut version of the interview the Sheriff does indeed say, "They went down to the creek, which is right next to the campground". At the 0.39 sec mark.
[video=youtube;FV-h82eVQ1M]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FV-h82eVQ1M&list=PLHxHvR1OFyNDkpZrKmKgKJCsujxaoOlUU&index=1[/video]

The Sherrif demeanor and the way he speaks doesn't bother me too much. I am fixated on the fact that he said that they turned over physical evidence as well as behavioral (spell check!!) Information to the FBI. Despite what he us saying about not ruling anything out, this is a STRONG indication to me that they do indeed have a specific scenario in mind, but they don't have enough confidence to pursue this angle without input from the FBI.
I think that the friend IR is right in their cross hairs. I will eat a hat sandwich if I'm wrong. ( I have eaten a few in my day and I have acquired a taste [emoji13]).

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[ninij9]

Was it a slip of the tongue when the sheriff called the site a crime scene?

Great catch!!!

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[ninij9]

I had to step away from this case for a while because it was getting too conspiratorial for me. I came out of lurkdom to say THANK YOU for this wonderful post! Common sense and logic does it for me.

I know it's probably too "boring" but I still think that little DeOrr is either in the water somewhere or in the woods having died due to exposure.

I have tried and tried to jump on some 'other' bandwagons, but there just isn't enough evidence to convince me of anything sinister here just yet.

TBH, this is new to me because I'm usually always jaded and cynical wrt parents and other bystanders in a missing child's case, but this one just seems different to me for some reason.

IR is still in my sights though.

For a long time I bet the farm on the idea that DeOrr would eventually be found in the creek. It was my first thought from day one up until I found out about great Grandpa's friend. Then we got the "interview" with great Grandpa's friend. After that it was a toss up between "the creek and the creep" for me. I have been leaning heavily on the creep because so many terrible things seem to happen to these babies lately.

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[starfire]

The cadaver dogs they use were being trained? That's the first time I'm hearing that piece of info. Where did it come from?

IIRC they had two different types of dogs. Scent dogs the first few days and the cadaver dogs were brought in a few days later. Is that how everybody else understands it?

The post was not referring to dogs on this search, but an article referring to search dogs being trained using cremains.

 

[Dee10]

The Sheriff did seem uncomfortable talking about possible store video & later even make a joke to that effect, but I find it hard to believe somewhat. As a small business owner in a rural area, I have it. It's cheap these days, whether you have a convenience store of selling gas...not having it can be expensive for many reasons & situations where you could be libel & not just employee theft. Also the Sheriff implied what he sent to the FBI he didn't want to talk about evidence. Maybe if there was video it was included??? But, if little DeOrr was on a store video or gas station, wouldn't you be 100% sure? He's sure the receipt matches up though. But perhaps a video / picture / sighting could be fraudulent or maybe there is no sighting? I find it strange, especially poo-pooing a stranger giving a creepy-look, as if they didn't investigate that lol. Of course they did in that tiny town IMO!

ETA - Yes, I think they have a theory.

 

[ninij9]

As per the uncut interview, they were ALL within 100 to 150 feet of each other.

Yes, and we really only have their word on this right? No independent witnesses. Just GGP who is unwell and not talking and a strange friend.

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