ID - Doomsday Cult Victims - Joshua Vallow - Tylee Ryan - Tammy Daybell - Charles Vallow - *Arrests* #67

[Tortoise]

Lori Hellis thinks that the only Lori's motion that has any chance of acceptance is actually the one we are objecting the most - the motion for a settlement conference. LH points out that it's not necessary for the prosecution to be present and acknowledges some of the prosecution's other reservations (the other attorney becoming a witness, security concerns), but also believes it's an opportunity to get the case settled at all. LH: "The judge might allow some limited or restricted guidelines."

New video:

I'm a huge fan of LH, but IMHO she has a bit of a blind spot sometimes when it comes to believing LV. Perhaps it comes from her career as a defense attorney (although I also note she did a spell as prosecutor too), and perhaps I lean too heavily the other way, but when I look at everything LV has done, not just the crimes she is charged with, but her long history of manipulating, lying, devastating others, using people, plotting and scheming 'revenge' for invented transgressions against her, relishing in harming others, feeling no regret or remorse in killing, sacrificing lives for insurance and for convenience, etc etc, I just don't see the same person LH sees. I see malingering in LV going to the mental health facility, as it seems her latest evaluation might have revealed, and incurable severe personality disorders, but not vulnerability or susceptibility to manipulation. I see choices made in lucid mental state, and innate desire to harm others. One who has murdered a string of people including her own children, and would not hesitate to commit more. JMHO

Settlement of a case must come from a place of realization of one's wrongs, a willingness to confess everything and plead guilty. If LV wants to settle, she knows where the prosecutor's door is.

MOO

 

[Laughing]

I'm a huge fan of LH, but IMHO she has a bit of a blind spot sometimes when it comes to believing LV. Perhaps it comes from her career as a defense attorney (although I also note she did a spell as prosecutor too), and perhaps I lean too heavily the other way, but when I look at everything LV has done, not just the crimes she is charged with, but her long history of manipulating, lying, devastating others, using people, plotting and scheming 'revenge' for invented transgressions against her, relishing in harming others, feeling no regret or remorse in killing, sacrificing lives for insurance and for convenience, etc etc, I just don't see the same person LH sees. I see malingering in LV going to the mental health facility, as it seems her latest evaluation might have revealed, and incurable severe personality disorders, but not vulnerability or susceptibility to manipulation. I see choices made in lucid mental state, and innate desire to harm others. One who has murdered a string of people including her own children, and would not hesitate to commit more. JMHO

Settlement of a case must come from a place of realization of one's wrongs, a willingness to confess everything and plead guilty. If LV wants to settle, she knows where the prosecutor's door is.

MOO

bbm

imho, Lori believes she is smarter than anyone else & can arrange to get anything she wants. She might confess if there is a guarantee of very little time incarcerated (as in Time Served) and few requirements afterwards. SHe could re-cast this as chess moves -- letting the State take a pawn to leave her, The Queen, essentially alone.

Otherwise, imho she thinks she can get away with it all & won't be convicted of anything.

I hope the prosecution team is strong, prepared, and ready!

 

[indicolite22]

I'm a huge fan of LH, but IMHO she has a bit of a blind spot sometimes when it comes to believing LV. Perhaps it comes from her career as a defense attorney (although I also note she did a spell as prosecutor too), and perhaps I lean too heavily the other way, but when I look at everything LV has done, not just the crimes she is charged with, but her long history of manipulating, lying, devastating others, using people, plotting and scheming 'revenge' for invented transgressions against her, relishing in harming others, feeling no regret or remorse in killing, sacrificing lives for insurance and for convenience, etc etc, I just don't see the same person LH sees. I see malingering in LV going to the mental health facility, as it seems her latest evaluation might have revealed, and incurable severe personality disorders, but not vulnerability or susceptibility to manipulation. I see choices made in lucid mental state, and innate desire to harm others. One who has murdered a string of people including her own children, and would not hesitate to commit more. JMHO

Settlement of a case must come from a place of realization of one's wrongs, a willingness to confess everything and plead guilty. If LV wants to settle, she knows where the prosecutor's door is.

MOO

LH also said that if only one of them settles, the prosecution would make them testify against the other.

Personally I don't see any of them admitting their guilt, unless they were certain they couldn't get away with it at the trial. I don't know if they are afraid of the other one confessing.

Perhaps some of the moves in this case are initiated by their lawyers to cover all the bases. L&C both have competent representation so I don't expect many bogus filings.

 

[indicolite22]

bbm

imho, Lori believes she is smarter than anyone else & can arrange to get anything she wants. She might confess if there is a guarantee of very little time incarcerated (as in Time Served) and few requirements afterwards. SHe could re-cast this as chess moves -- letting the State take a pawn to leave her, The Queen, essentially alone.

Otherwise, imho she thinks she can get away with it all & won't be convicted of anything.

I hope the prosecution team is strong, prepared, and ready!

If she confesses to the current charges, I doubt the threat of death penalty can be reduced to time served, not even a fixed number of years. She'd have to spill all the beans on Chad, too.

 

[wnk]

IMO, LV's "settlement conference" is just an excuse for her to get in front of CD again and gauge the sort of hold that she has on him and whether he's likely to throw her under the bus about anything, bc (IMO) she thinks that if anyone's going to be throwing people under the bus, it's going to be her, and if she senses that he might do that, she's going to try to beat him to it.

 

[Minty Fresh]

IMO, LV's "settlement conference" is just an excuse for her to get in front of CD again and gauge the sort of hold that she has on him and whether he's likely to throw her under the bus about anything, bc (IMO) she thinks that if anyone's going to be throwing people under the bus, it's going to be her, and if she senses that he might do that, she's going to try to beat him to it.

The fact that this meeting is even going to happen is just proof of her ability to manipulate the system as well as its participants. It is breathtaking in its audacity.

 

[Tortoise]

The fact that this meeting is even going to happen is just proof of her ability to manipulate the system as well as its participants. It is breathtaking in its audacity.

Let's see what the court says next week, it's a request the judge has to decide on.

 

[Chelly]

Let's see what the court says next week, it's a request the judge has to decide on.

It will be interesting to learn if a precedent exists in Idaho of any judge/s ruling to permit phone conference among co-defendants and their attorneys pre-trial. If so, defense will be sure to present that at hearing.

imo

 

[fred&edna]

 

[Chelly]

Excellent pre-hearing reporting by Nate Eaton, East Idaho News. Must watch!.
Edited for spelling

 

[Jolynna]

"Further, there is sufficient evidence for a jury to conclude that the Defendant participated in the killing of her own children."

Link to Prosecutorial Objection claiming the prosecutors have evidence that LVD participated in the killing of JJ and Tylee.

 

[155etta]

"Further, there is sufficient evidence for a jury to conclude that the Defendant participated in the killing of her own children."

Link to Prosecutorial Objection claiming the prosecutors have evidence that LVD participated in the killing of JJ and Tylee.

I hope they have her d*mn fingerprints on the duct tape. MOO.

 

[mickey2942]

The only strategy with a guilty client is stall. Maybe CD and LVD are praying for the "Zombie Apocalypse", hoping that rapture and the end of earth will redeem them, prior to the trial.

 

[Minty Fresh]

I hope they have her d*mn fingerprints on the duct tape. MOO.

I hope so, too, but I suspect otherwise.

TBH, the word "participated" is nebulous, and could be construed in a number of ways. Sure, "participated" might be as heinous as using the duct tape, but could also be as bland as taking the child to Alex's apartment and leaving him there, knowing what was about to happen, or administering a drug to the child so that he would be easier to kill. Conspiracy might also be construed as "participated." So although something brutal and disgusting might be a more slam dunk situation, I wouldn't count on it.

I just hope that the latest hair sample, which I believe was taken from the duct tape, is hers. That would be quite damning indeed.

 

[mickey2942]

We have not heard much from Zulema, I wonder what AC told her. There may be a lot of testimony from MG, MP, and ZP that smacks LVD and CD.

Also if Kaye Woodcock ends up testifying, I believe that means she cannot also listen to the trial or be present for other witnesses (?)...

 

[TheLoadedGoat]

I hope so, too, but I suspect otherwise.

TBH, the word "participated" is nebulous, and could be construed in a number of ways. Sure, "participated" might be as heinous as using the duct tape, but could also be as bland as taking the child to Alex's apartment and leaving him there, knowing what was about to happen, or administering a drug to the child so that he would be easier to kill. Conspiracy might also be construed as "participated." So although something brutal and disgusting might be a more slam dunk situation, I wouldn't count on it.

I just hope that the latest hair sample, which I believe was taken from the duct tape, is hers. That would be quite damning indeed.

Agree 100% For those of us who have or have had long hair, we know that stuff gets everywhere.

 

[montegrl]

New Orders in LV's case:

• 01/18/2023 Order
  Comment
  on Defendant's Bill of Particulars
• 01/18/2023 Order
  Comment
  on Defendant's Motion to Compel

 

[Niner]

Since both have not been to court in quite awhile - I will post them separately, as both are quite long - and I will shorten them.

Thursday, January 19th:
*Motions Hearing (@ 9am MT) – ID – Joshua Jaxon (JJ) Vallow (7) & Tylee Ashlyn Ryan (16) (JJ last seen Sept. 23, 2019 & Tylee on Sept. 9, 2019, Rexburg; found June 9, 2020 buried in Daybell’s yard in Salem, ID) – for *Lori Norene Vallow aka Lori Norene Daybell (46/now 49) arrested (in Kauai, Hawaii on 2/20/20) & indicted & charged (5/25/21) & re-arraigned (4/19/22) with Count 1 (for Tylee): Conspiracy to commit 1st degree murder & grand theft by deception (for Daybell, Vallow & Alex Cox) & other co-conspirators. Count 2 (for Tylee): 1st degree murder. Count 3 (for JJ): Conspiracy to commit 1st degree murder & grand theft by deception. Count 4(for JJ): 1st degree murder. Count 5 (for Tammy): Conspiracy to commit 1st degree murder. Count 6 (for Tammy): Chad only: 1st Degree murder. Count 7: Lori only: Grand theft (related to social security survivor benefits allocated for the care of minors Tylee & JJ). Plead not guilty. DA will seek DP. Fremont County
Conspiracy to commit destruction, alteration or concealment of evidence charges dismissed without prejudice on 7/29/21. Fremont County
Transferred to mental hospital on 6/24/21. Found competent on 4/1/22 & transferred custody (4/14/2) to the Madison County Detention facility. Idaho District Judge Steven W. Boyce suspended the case until Vallow’s competency can be determined on 10/6/22 & her 1/9/23 trial has been vacated. Found competent (again) on 11/15/22.
Trial was set to begin on 1/9/23 with jury selection was vacated by Judge Boyce & will now begin on 4/3/23 thru 6/9/23 @ 9am. Trial will be held in Ada County.
Arrest & Grand Jury & Court info from 3/5/20 thru 11/22/22 reference post #932 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...-vallow-62-oct-2019-arrests-66.631271/page-47
11/23/22: Motion: Comment: to Declare Death Penalty Unconstitutional. Notice of hearing. Motions hearing on 12/8/22 @ 9:30am. 12/8/22 Update: District Judge Steven Boyce heard arguments from both Daybells’ lawyers & the prosecution before deciding that the 10-week trial would begin on 4/3/23, after being postponed from 1/9/23. John Prior, Chad’s lawyer, told the court that he received a thumb drive that morning with more than 115 items of discovery on it from Madison Prosecuting Attorney Rob Wood. Prior said the trial date needed to be no earlier than October 2023, if not sometime in 2024, to give him time to review these new findings. One of Lori’s lawyers, Jim Archibald, argued that since she hadn’t waived her right to a speedy trial, the court needed to set a date as soon as February, 2023. “For purposes of trial, my client has not waived her speedy trial. By our calculation, we cannot agree to anything past Feb. 21, 2023,” said Archibald. “The court needs to set our client’s jury trial for that time. If it’s after, then we believe her speedy trial rights have been violated & we will file a motion to dismiss the case.” Judge Boyce explained his ruling by stating that Lori had been in jail for almost two & a half years & as Archibald mentioned, had not waived her right to a speedy trial. “By my calculations, I have Ms. Vallow, who has been in custody two years & 10 days since her initial arrest. Mr. Daybell has waived his right to a speedy trial & has been in jail 912 & a half days by my calculation". “The length of incarceration is of great concern to me. I have a defendant who has never waived her right to a speedy trial.” The court also heard arguments for a motion to compel after John Thomas, another lawyer for Lori, argued that the prosecution was not disclosing all of the details about meetings with witnesses, particularly Zulema Pastenes, the wife of Lori’s late brother Alex Cox. Thomas called Brandon Hobbs to the stand, an investigator from Arizona who met with Pastenes. He testified that Pastenes told him she had met with the prosecution, something that hadn’t been disclosed to the court previously. Based on the argument, Boyce granted the motion to compel, stating that “further compliance is necessary” from the state. The last motion heard was the motion for a bill of particulars, a very technical proceeding, arguing that the court must issue a written document which explains the allegations against Daybell & Vallow Daybell in more detail. Judge Boyce ruled to take the motion under advisement & will release a written ruling in the coming week. Other motions that were scheduled to be discussed included a motion to prevent the death qualification of the jury & a motion to declare the death penalty unconstitutional in this case, both of which were rescheduled.
12/16/22: Notice of trial setting, pretrial conference & scheduling order governing further proceedings by Judge Steven W. Boyce. Discovery: All discovery must be completed prior to the pretrial conference. The parties shall discuss potential settlement of the case before the pretrial hearing on 2/27/23. At the final pretrial conference, the parties must be prepared to inform the Court whether the case is going to trial. The defendant's in-person attendance is required. All plea agreements shall be reduced to writing. All motions to continue the trial shall state the reason for the continuance & must be in writing. A proposed Jury Questionnaire is due to the Court by 1/9/23. A closed & sealed hearing on the Jury Questionnaire will be set in January, 2023 at a date & time to be determined by the Court. A list of all exhibits & witnesses shall be submitted by the parties to the Court at least 14 days before the trial date. Next pretrial conference hearing on 2/27/23 @ 1:30pm & trial set for 4/3/23 thru 6/9/23 @ 9am.
1/3/22 Update: Next motions hearing on 1/19/23. Motion to prevent death qualification of jury, Motion to declare death penalty unconstitutional. And pretrial conference on 2/27/23 has been changed to 2/23/23. 1/3/23: Notice of intent not to raise mental health defense. 1/4/23: Motion to declare defendant not Death Eligible.
1/5/22 Update: Vallow motions: Notice of Alibi filed. Vallow claims she was in her own apartment when her kids JJ & Tylee died in her late brother Alex Cox’s apartment. When Tammy Daybell died, Vallow says she was in Hawaii w/her niece & friend. Motion for Joint Settlement & Strategy sessions filed. Vallow wants to have a meeting with Chad Daybell about strategy. Last time they spoke over the phone was on 7/26/22. Motion says Lori & Chad want to talk in person & on the phone about their options. They will be allowed to talk in the presence of their attorneys & prosecutors, but the content of their conversations won't be used as evidence. The motions will be heard in front of Boyce on 1/19/23 in Fremont County along with a motion from prosecutors to sequester the jury. Additional hearings are scheduled in February & March before the trial is set to begin April 3 in Ada County. An additional motions hearing on 2/9/23. 1/12/23: Objection to Jury Sequestration. State's response to defendant's motion for a joint settlement & strategy session.
1/17/23: Earlier this month, Lori Vallow's attorneys filed a motion asking the judge to declare the death penalty unconstitutional. In the document, her legal team also claimed prosecutors have not shared enough details as to why their client is eligible for the death penalty. On Thursday, prosecutors filed an objection, claiming evidence would prove Vallow qualifies for the death penalty. "Sufficient evidence existed for the grand jury to find probable cause that the defendant intended for her children & Tammy Daybell to die," Fremont County Prosecuting Attorney Lindsey Blake wrote in the response. The motion comes after Vallow's team filed a notice informing the court of her alibi at the time of her children's deaths & the death of her husband Chad Daybell's late wife, Tammy Daybell. "The evidence the State will introduce at trial, some of which have already been reviewed by the Grand Jury, will show that the defendant intended for her children & her boyfriend's wife to die & that she affirmatively acted to make those deaths happen," Blake said. In a notice of alibi, Lori Vallow's attorneys claimed Tylee & JJ died at her brother Alex Cox's apartment while she was in her own apartment. Vallow's legal team also claimed she was in Hawaii when Tammy Daybell died.
1/18/23: Order on defendant's Bill of Particulars & Order on defendant's Motion to Compel.
*Madison County: Pretrial conference hearing on 8/17/21 & trial set to begin on 8/30/21 were both vacated.
*Chad Guy Daybell (53/now 54) – Motions hearing on 1/19/23 & 2/9/23. Pretrial conference hearing on 2/23/23. Trial is set to begin on 4/3/23.
*AZ – Indicted (6/24/21) & served (6/29/21) with conspiracy to commit 1st degree murder in the death of former husband Charles Vallow. Maricopa County
A Maricopa County Attorney’s Office spokeswoman said in June that Lori’s case in Idaho will run its course before she faces the charge in Arizona.

 

[Niner]

Thursday, January 19th:
*Motions Hearing (@ 9m MT) – ID – Joshua Jaxon (JJ) Vallow (7) & Tylee Ashlyn Ryan (16) (JJ last seen Sept. 23, 2019 & Tylee on Sept. 9, 2019, Rexburg; found June 9, 2020 buried in Daybell’s yard in Salem, ID) & Tamara “Tammy” Michelle Douglas Daybell (49) (died on Oct. 19, 2019 at her residence in Salem, ID; dob 5/4/70). – for *Chad Guy Daybell (53/now 54) arrested (6/9/20) & indicted (5/25/21) & charged (5/26/21) & arraigned (6/9/21) with Count 1 (for Tylee): Conspiracy to commit 1st degree murder & grand theft by deception (for Daybell, Vallow & Alex Cox) & other co-conspirators. Count 2 (for Tylee): 1st degree murder. Count 3 (for JJ): Conspiracy to commit 1st degree murder & grand theft by deception. Count 4(for JJ): 1st degree murder. Count 5 (for Tammy, 49, died 10/19/19): Conspiracy to commit 1st degree murder. Count 6 (for Tammy): 1st degree murder. Count 8 & 9: Insurance Fraud (Two counts of insurance fraud related to 2 different life insurance policies he had on Tammy). Plead not guilty. No bond. DA will seek DP. Fremont County
Trial was set to begin on 1/9/23 was vacated (10/28/22) & will now begin on 4/3/23 thru 6/9/23 @ 9am. Trial will be held in Ada County. (will last 10 weeks)
Previous charges, Grand jury indictment & Court info from 6/10/20 thru 11/17/22 reference post #932 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/...-vallow-62-oct-2019-arrests-66.631271/page-47
11/30/22 Update: Next scheduling conference hearing on 12/8/22 @ 9:30am. 12/8/22 Update: District Judge Steven Boyce heard arguments from both Daybells’ lawyers & the prosecution before deciding that the 10-week trial would begin on 4/3/23, after being postponed from 1/9/23. John Prior, Chad’s lawyer, told the court that he received a thumb drive that morning with more than 115 items of discovery on it from Madison Prosecuting Attorney Rob Wood. Prior said the trial date needed to be no earlier than October 2023, if not sometime in 2024, to give him time to review these new findings. One of Lori’s lawyers, Jim Archibald, argued that since she hadn’t waived her right to a speedy trial, the court needed to set a date as soon as February, 2023. “For purposes of trial, my client has not waived her speedy trial. By our calculation, we cannot agree to anything past Feb. 21, 2023,” said Archibald. “The court needs to set our client’s jury trial for that time. If it’s after, then we believe her speedy trial rights have been violated & we will file a motion to dismiss the case.” Judge Boyce explained his ruling by stating that Lori had been in jail for almost two & a half years & as Archibald mentioned, had not waived her right to a speedy trial. “By my calculations, I have Ms. Vallow, who has been in custody two years & 10 days since her initial arrest. Mr. Daybell has waived his right to a speedy trial & has been in jail 912 & a half days by my calculation". “The length of incarceration is of great concern to me. I have a defendant who has never waived her right to a speedy trial.” The court also heard arguments for a motion to compel after John Thomas, another lawyer for Lori, argued that the prosecution was not disclosing all of the details about meetings with witnesses, particularly Zulema Pastenes, the wife of Lori’s late brother Alex Cox. Thomas called Brandon Hobbs to the stand, an investigator from Arizona who met with Pastenes. He testified that Pastenes told him she had met with the prosecution, something that hadn’t been disclosed to the court previously. Based on the argument, Boyce granted the motion to compel, stating that “further compliance is necessary” from the state. The last motion heard was the motion for a bill of particulars, a very technical proceeding, arguing that the court must issue a written document which explains the allegations against Daybell & Vallow Daybell in more detail. Judge Boyce ruled to take the motion under advisement & will release a written ruling in the coming week. Other motions that were scheduled to be discussed included a motion to prevent the death qualification of the jury & a motion to declare the death penalty unconstitutional in this case, both of which were rescheduled.
12/16/22: Notice of trial setting, pretrial conference & scheduling order governing further proceedings by Judge Steven W. Boyce. Discovery: All discovery must be completed prior to the pretrial conference. The parties shall discuss potential settlement of the case before the pretrial hearing on 2/27/23. At the final pretrial conference, the parties must be prepared to inform the Court whether the case is going to trial. The defendant's in-person attendance is required. All plea agreements shall be reduced to writing. All motions to continue the trial shall state the reason for the continuance & must be in writing. A proposed Jury Questionnaire is due to the Court by 1/9/23. A closed & sealed hearing on the Jury Questionnaire will be set in January, 2023 at a date & time to be determined by the Court. A list of all exhibits & witnesses shall be submitted by the parties to the Court at least 14 days before the trial date. Next pretrial conference hearing on 2/27/23 @ 1:30pm & trial set for 4/3/23 thru 6/9/23 @ 9am.
12/28/22 Update: The attorney for Chad Daybell has filed a motion to object to the court’s scheduling order for jury questionnaire submissions. Attorney John Prior filed the motion on Dec. 23, to address the “quickly approaching Jan. 9 deadline for the submission of jury questionnaires.” Prior’s motion also mentions that Daybell will be asking for a further continuance of the trial, which was set to April 3 during a motion hearing earlier this month. The next court proceeding for Daybell & Vallow Daybell, is scheduled for Feb. 27. Further hearings have not yet been scheduled. 1/3/23 Update: Pretrial conference hearing for Daybell has been changed to 2/23/23 @ 9am.
1/10/23 Update: Motions hearing on 1/19/23 re motion to continue & 2/9/23 both at 9am & pretrial hearing on 2/23/23. 1/12/23: Stipulation for consumptive testing of forensic evidence on a newly discovered hair sample. State's response to defendant's motion for a joint settlement & strategy session.
*Lori Norene Vallow aka Lori Norene Daybell (46/now 49) – Fremont County: 5/27/21: Found incompetent to stand trial. All hearings put on hold. Competency review hearing was on 6/16/21, but Prosecutor Wood withdraws motion to contest competency. 4/11/22: Found competent to stand trial. 10/6/22: Judge Steven W. Boyce suspended the case until Vallow’s competency can be determined & her January 2023 trial has been vacated. Motions hearing on 1/19/23 & 2/9/23 & pretrial conference hearing on 2/23/23. Trial set to begin on 4/3/23.
*Madison County: Pretrial conference hearing on 8/17/21 & trial set to begin on 8/30/21 were both vacated.

 

[longtimereader]

Nate Eaton

@NateNewsNow


Boyce DENIES Chad Daybell's request to continue trial but says that it is premised on speedy trial rights expressed by co-defendant Vallow Daybell.

Boyce DENIES request to sequester jury: " I believe adequate steps can be put into place to not require sequestration during the course of the trial and the court will take those steps very seriously."

Boyce DENIES motion for Lori and Chad to meet. Expresses security concerns (not having a deputy in the room with Chad and Lori) and says "it's an idea that is full of pitfalls that would far outweigh any conveniences."

Chad Daybell is now being escorted out of courtroom for the remaining part of the hearing (the remaining motions don't concern him). He walks out quickly with John Prior behind him. Does not look at Lori. She chats with her attorney as Chad walks out. Brief recess.