Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 16, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *Arrests* #51

[Tortoise]

The problem with this idea is that Prior can't give evidence himself via wild speculation - as much as defence counsel like to do that sort of thing.

The defence would need to introduce into evidence some foundation for the idea that AC had the phone. But how do you do that?

Hence why we see Prior indulge in some wild speculation/innuendo, without presenting any evidence

It won't be possible. Alex left the property with his own phone and Chad sent the messages to Tammy after that.

I didn't pick up that Prior was suggesting that it wasn't Chad who sent the texts - he went to town on the agent for not looking for the raccoon.

The satellite images show the dark spot of disturbed ground about 90 minutes after those texts about the pet cemetery. What's he going to do - say someone stole the raccoon's remains from there and swapped them with Tylee's remains?

No chance.

moo

 

[Colorado303]

Perhaps. But murder is also grounds for losing one's temple recommend, and they didn't let that stop them.

And speaking of temples, they also claimed to have been married together up to seven times before in previous lives. And supposedly they also performed some super secret clandestine (and illegitimate) temple sealing together while in Arizona. If they truly believed and acted upon either of these things then in their own minds they could easily justify all that goes with a marital relationship, even as they were still married to other people.

They certainly felt comfortable and intimate with each other enough to be sending dancing videos, holding hands, kissing, slapping butts, and other displays of affection in public... even as Tammy was still alive. Whether or not there was physical adultery going on is irrelevant - they were clearly already committing emotional and spiritual adultery with each other. What is that scripture about looking on a woman to lust after her and commiting adultery in one's heart? MOO.

I get the impression Lori and Chad both felt superior to leaders of the Morman Church. The only reason they cared about their temple recommends and standing was for credibility/marketing purposes. I have no doubt they felt justified in breaking the silly rules set up by mere mortal Church officials but I’m equally sure they kept that info to themselves and would readily lie to church leaders if asked.

They could lie about sex. Lie about murder. But divorce would be impossible to lie about in a small, closely knit town. Tammy and CV both had to die but not so L & C could frolic under the covers. They’d been doing that long before Tammy died, like three lifetimes or something.

 

[indicolite22]

Looks like LE were disappointed that the neighbours were not more helpful.
Neighbor tipped off cops about 'large bonfires' on Chad Daybell's property where kids where buried | Daily Mail Online

They were disappointed that more neighbors did not come forward. Is it implied that some might have been sympathetic towards Chad?

The article also states: "The police department is refusing to answer questions on why it took so long to arrest Lori and find the children's remains." We now know the answer to the second part. It takes time to process electronic evidence. Chad's texts to Tammy were only discovered by early June.

 

[Tortoise]

I must have missed something. How do we know that she "withheld herself until marriage?"

On the recorded call -

starts at 15:15 -

MG: ...and he thought at the very end because of his carnal and natural desires, that's what influenced him, and he was very
LV: That's me?? Carnal and natural desires?
MG: Well honey you got a lot of natural desires we all know that.
LV: That's what you think is me, Korihor? Are you kidding me right now?
MG: I think both of you have had similarities, it's in the scriptures.


starts at 20:25 -

MG: ...these things, like you being with Chad before he's even divorced is unusual behavior for a person that's seen Jesus Christ.
LV: It's not...I was never with him and he was never divorced.
MG: Honey I've seen you guys together.
LV: That's your story, that's [inaudible]
MG: Oh, so I haven't ever seen you with, I've never seen you with Chad kiss him and walk around the track at BYU with him, I never saw that.
LV: You're the one who is feeling guilty about being with someone before they were divorced.
MG: Oh honey. I think that's not what we're talking about here.
LV: Well it's not what we're talking about here, that's what I'm saying.

 

[salberg7]

CD & LV imo were definitely sleeping together prior to Tammy’s death. That’s how Lori sealed (whatever) deal. Lori was not worried about temple recommend. Her first husband was not Mormon. CV was Catholic and converted to LDS for Lori. She has been divorced 4 times. She thought she was a goddess. Conventional rules meant nothing to her. The only rules that mattered were her own.

I feel that while Chad is not innocent Lori began to set her trap to lure Chad right after they first met at the book signing. She saw $ signs (even though CV reportedly made $260K annually). CV told the police Lori had a break with reality (paraphrasing) around that time. Lori began arguing with Alex around that time. (1/19). Lori saw Chad as her soul mate and set her sight on him. Lori also realized just how easy it was to lure Chad in & began to think of how she could use Chad to achieve her goals.

Chad (not the brightest bulb in the bunch) fell for her hook, line and sinker. She worked him and fed into the what he believed in. He’d been married 30 years, slept with the same woman (maybe his only sexual partner?). Lori was the opposite of Tammy who had a good job, raised 5 children with Chad and from what I have heard was a lovely woman. Typical mid age crisis for Chad.

Tammy didn’t matter to Lori. CD & LV stars simply collided. Lust drew Chad in and he lost his moral compass pretty quickly.

I can’t wait for the results of Tammy’s autopsy report.

Prior to meeting Chad I think Lori was tired of caring for JJ. He was sort of forced on her by the Vallow family. Lori being the narcissist she is simply could not take the fact that JJ required and was receiving more attention than her daily. He was not what Lori bargained for at that time in her life. She wanted and felt she deserved to be the goddess and JJ was preventing her from achieving her goal. Thus he had to go.

This is a classic case of how lust and greed can make someone lose their mind. The way they used religion to justify their actions is proof of their combined psychopathy. I agree with those who say Lori was the antagonist here. Chad just fell for her feminine charm and quite simply, her body and looks.

Someone above mentioned if Lori had exhibited any sociopathic/personality disorders throughout her life. She bucked Mormonism with marrying husband #1 thus she wasn’t the good LDS girl at all. I would love to know more about her background. I saw the interview with Janice & Summer where both of them were firm in their support of Lori, adamant she would never harm her children. Janice also stated she spoke with JJ on October 1. So they too lie without impunity.

 

[Colorado303]

The state AG got involved in Tammy's case, not the children's:

Prosecutors in Tammy Daybell case asked others for help before Idaho AG

Thank you

 

[Colorado303]

It won't be possible. Alex left the property with his own phone and Chad sent the messages to Tammy after that.

I didn't pick up that Prior was suggesting that it wasn't Chad who sent the texts - he went to town on the agent for not looking for the raccoon.

The satellite images show the dark spot of disturbed ground about 90 minutes after those texts about the pet cemetery. What's he going to do - say someone stole the raccoon's remains from there and swapped them with Tylee's remains?

No chance.

moo

Do we know where Lori or Melaniece were that morning? If there’s not proof they were elsewhere Chad could claim one of them sent the text. Not saying I believe it. Not saying it’s a smart defense. I don’t and it’s not. Just seems to me Prior is considering that defense.

jmo

 

[indicolite22]

CD & LV imo were definitely sleeping together prior to Tammy’s death. That’s how Lori sealed (whatever) deal. Lori was not worried about temple recommend. Her first husband was not Mormon. CV was Catholic and converted to LDS for Lori. She has been divorced 4 times. She thought she was a goddess. Conventional rules meant nothing to her. The only rules that mattered were her own.

I feel that while Chad is not innocent Lori began to set her trap to lure Chad right after they first met at the book signing. She saw $ signs (even though CV reportedly made $260K annually). CV told the police Lori had a break with reality (paraphrasing) around that time. Lori began arguing with Alex around that time. (1/19). Lori saw Chad as her soul mate and set her sight on him. Lori also realized just how easy it was to lure Chad in & began to think of how she could use Chad to achieve her goals.

Chad (not the brightest bulb in the bunch) fell for her hook, line and sinker. She worked him and fed into the what he believed in. He’d been married 30 years, slept with the same woman (maybe his only sexual partner?). Lori was the opposite of Tammy who had a good job, raised 5 children with Chad and from what I have heard was a lovely woman. Typical mid age crisis for Chad.

Tammy didn’t matter to Lori. CD & LV stars simply collided. Lust drew Chad in and he lost his moral compass pretty quickly.

I can’t wait for the results of Tammy’s autopsy report.

Prior to meeting Chad I think Lori was tired of caring for JJ. He was sort of forced on her by the Vallow family. Lori being the narcissist she is simply could not take the fact that JJ required and was receiving more attention than her daily. He was not what Lori bargained for at that time in her life. She wanted and felt she deserved to be the goddess and JJ was preventing her from achieving her goal. Thus he had to go.

This is a classic case of how lust and greed can make someone lose their mind. The way they used religion to justify their actions is proof of their combined psychopathy. I agree with those who say Lori was the antagonist here. Chad just fell for her feminine charm and quite simply, her body and looks.

Someone above mentioned if Lori had exhibited any sociopathic/personality disorders throughout her life. She bucked Mormonism with marrying husband #1 thus she wasn’t the good LDS girl at all. I would love to know more about her background. I saw the interview with Janice & Summer where both of them were firm in their support of Lori, adamant she would never harm her children. Janice also stated she spoke with JJ on October 1. So they too lie without impunity.

I wouldn't call Chad a victim to Lori's charms. It was him who told her almost immediately that they were married in a previous life (he tried the same trick on other women before her). He made up the history of her 21 previous lives and put her on the pedestal as someone important in the past and in the future. He evaluated her family according to light/darkness and he sent her a list of things to accomplish as a couple with a spiritual calling. I don't see Lori in the driver's seat.

 

[Nikynoo]

Interesting points. Remember when Prior tried to make the point that a device’s location or content isn’t necessarily proof of it’s owners actions? Implication being someone else could have had that device instead of the owner.

I think Prior will say that the text from Chad’s phone wasn’t sent by Chad at all, but by someone who had access to his phone. He might even use the FBI agent’s statement to support that theory—it was unlike any other text Chad had sent to Tammy because it wasn’t Chad who sent it. Defense may argue burying the kids in Chad’s backyard and sending the raccoon text were calculated actions to frame Chad. Motive for framing could be to make sure Chad kept his end of “the deal” (whatever that might have been) or just to ensure the kid’s murders could be pinned on somebody else if necessary.

There’s no doubt in my mind Defense is planning to throw Lori under a fleet of buses. And she will be kicking and screaming! IMO Chad is pretty dumb, but Lori is not. Once she watches the prelim footage she is going to be well aware that Chad is cutting bait. And she is going to come out foaming at the mouth w/both barrels blazing. We know what she’s like when she’s angry and she is going to be livid! If Chad had any involvement in Tammy’s death I think Lori will happily serve him to LE on a silver platter. Even if he didn’t Lori may well say he did anyway. I doubt Lori can get any kind of a plea deal for the kid’s deaths, but I wouldn’t be surprised if DA gave her full immunity re Tammy’s death in exchange for her testimony. If Chad’s not shaking in his boots right now he really is an idiot.

MOO

BBM - this crossed my mind also. We already know that Lori sends communications impersonating another.

 

[Tortoise]

Do we know where Lori or Melaniece were that morning? If there’s not proof they were elsewhere Chad could claim one of them sent the text. Not saying I believe it. Not saying it’s a smart defense. I don’t and it’s not. Just seems to me Prior is considering that defense.

jmo

I don't see how it works at all and as I said before Prior's main thrust seemed to be that the story of a raccoon burial wasn't disproven by investigators.

Tammy replied to him and even if someone else used his phone and deleted all the messages so he wouldn't see them, it seems more probable than not that Tammy would have raised the subject in conversation when she came home later. I don't think they'll go that route as a defense. It's far too convoluted with Alex leaving the property for the rest of the day and Chad presumably still being in possession of his own phone after that point. Prior never introduced any suggestion of Chad's phone not being in his own custody.

To top it off - he has his favorite phrase in the text - "I felt"

“Well, I’ve had an interesting morning! I felt I should burn all of the limb debris by the fire pit before it got too soaked by the coming storms. While I did so, I spotted a big racoon along the fence. I hurried and got my gun, and he was still walking along. I got close enough that one shot did the trick. He is now in our pet cemetery. Fun times!”

link to previous analysis of his writing patterns Found Deceased - ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom, arrested* #24

moo

 

[Nikynoo]

This is pretty brilliant. All of your surmises strike me as very plausible. I wondered about that statement by Prior and what it implied, because he never crossed that T. And I can totally see Lori behaving as you say, unless they sedate her. Can they do that?

I'm wondering whether Lori will spontaneously combust when all the evidence is presented to her.

 

[Nikynoo]

It's just defence counsel throwing mud at the wall.

Of course the device's location and content is proof or more accurately circumstantial evidence of where the owner was.

That is because a court is entitled to make reasonable and logical inferences from the web of circumstantial evidence.

So if the phone was on Chad's property, and sent a message to Chad's wife, it is logical to infer Chad was using it. The evidential burden would be on the defence to provide some evidential foundation that someone else had the phone.

I would usually agree. However, on more than one occasion, the FBI agent, referred to the phone (I think its was Alex's) and not the person. e.g. Alex's phone was located at X, not Alex was located at x by his phone. This made me prick my ears up as to whether there was other evidence that placed Alex somewhere else.

 

[Diddian]

I'm wondering whether Lori will spontaneously combust when all the evidence is presented to her.

Given how she treated or allowed fellow conspirators to treat TR and JJ, spontaneous combustion would be a fitting end, except that it would deny the community on behalf of her victims to be the ones hitting the switch.

 

[Nikynoo]

Wasn’t there something filed a couple of months ago saying the state’s attorney/prosecutor’s office would be assisting in the prosecution of Lori (and possibly Chad). If that’s the case is it possible Woods will be replaced after the preliminary hearing just as Judge Eddins was?

I’m going to miss Eddins. Wood, not so much. I don’t think he did a bad job per se, but he lacks charisma. And a charismatic presence is a huge plus if jurors are going to be watching you day in and day out for weeks.

That said, it’s possible Woods viewed the preliminary hearing as an actor would a “table read” and didn’t want to demonstrate his presence before necessary. Perhaps a whole different Woods will show up when it’s not rehearsal. If he remains as the first chair prosecutor I sure hope so!

Hmmm. I'm now wondering whether the lack of murder charges is down to the ability/experience of the current proecutor? I've looked on pacer but not having much luck. Are there many murders in these counties?

 

[Tortoise]

BBM - this crossed my mind also. We already know that Lori sends communications impersonating another.

I don't think Lori's impersonation skills were up to much - Colby and Tylee's friend both said they thought the texts they received didn't sound like Tylee.

 

[indicolite22]

I'm wondering whether Lori will spontaneously combust when all the evidence is presented to her.

Only if she has a conscience. She seems to easily detach from reality.

 

[Tortoise]

Hmmm. I'm now wondering whether the lack of murder charges is down to the ability/experience of the current proecutor? I've looked on pacer but not having much luck. Are there many murders in these counties?

I haven't noticed any problem with the prosecutor. He doesn't have a particularly flamboyant personality from what I've seen but he seems to have a good handle on the case. I rather think they won't lay murder charges before the children's autopsies and scene processing is finalised, there would be no reason to that I can think of.

moo

 

[longtimereader]

Your comments equate what many others have stated. Melanie was really concerned about Melanie. From the very first phone call, when Chad and Lori each called her to say she had JJ, Melanie is concerned with what will happen to her, perhaps even more than JJ.

Why not Tylee too? And why was CD's Prior ask Melanie about her relationship with Tylee?
Something tells me that C and Lori will say that Melanie knew exactly what had happened to Tylee. But I don't think it will ever be proven.

I wonder about the questioning concerning MG and Tylee. I wonder if it was Chad's question to make her feel or look bad. It was irrelevant. Who cares if MG liked her or not. But it does seem to attempt to distract from Chad and accuse MG and make her feel inferior. I think LV use of scriptures was similar. To get her back in control. Act spiritually superior over her. I really doubt that trying make MG lie was the first time LV mistreated her. I think she may have put up with lots of passive aggression and smaller emotional abuse. This was just such an obvious lack of concern for MG that it was the undoing.

 

[indicolite22]

Do we know where Lori or Melaniece were that morning? If there’s not proof they were elsewhere Chad could claim one of them sent the text. Not saying I believe it. Not saying it’s a smart defense. I don’t and it’s not. Just seems to me Prior is considering that defense.

jmo

Melaniece was still in Arizona in September.

 

[salberg7]

I'm wondering whether Lori will spontaneously combust when all the evidence is presented to her.

Me too! Absolutely. She’ll have a total meltdown. I wonder how she was feeling July 22, lol. Probably stared out of her cell the entire day wondering where the nearest “camp” was....