Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 16, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *Arrests* #57

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IMHO I think most of this won’t be available for the public to hear, besides some possible upcoming dates announced when they come back. But we shall see....

merit: and they’re live again!
 

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Prior mentions, in response to Judge’s question about the timing of a July trial, says he anticipates needing at least 90 days additional beyond the end of August. He says he is looking into October/November.

He says a Motion for change of venue & likely a severance Motion will probably be coming in the future. he makes a Motion to continue the trial. Means makes a motion to vacate the currently scheduled trial date and reset it for a future date.
 
Yet more kicking the can down the street.

John Prior mentioned the likelihood of a motion of severance... and did Mark Means say something about a motion to change Lori's name? Does that mean we're about to see Lori and Chad turning on each other?

All JMO.

Edit: nevermind on the name change for Lori. Going back and watching it it was Mr. Prior who mentioned a name change (?) for one of the witnesses. Not sure what that is about.
 
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Onsdag said:
Yet more kicking the can down the street.

John Prior mentioned the likelihood of a motion of severance... and did Mark Means say something about a motion to change Lori's name? Does that mean we're about to see Lori and Chad turning on each other?

All JMO.

Edit: nevermind on the name change for Lori. Going back and watching it it was Mr. Prior who mentioned a name change (?) for one of the witnesses. Not sure what that is about.
Click to expand...
I agree Prior wants a separate trial but it might be a long time before Chad and Lori turn on one another.
 
MM can still represent LVd until she is charged with murder. Is that correct?
If she is charged with murder, then can MM stay on as long as another death penalty lawyer comes on board and becomes the lead attorney?

What what about CD? Will he need a death penalty lawyer too?

Gosh, this is costing someone a lot of money!

Thanks.
 
MsJosie said:
MM can still represent LVd until she is charged with murder. Is that correct?
If she is charged with murder, then can MM stay on as long as another death penalty lawyer comes on board and becomes the lead attorney?

What what about CD? Will he need a death penalty lawyer too?

Gosh, this is costing someone a lot of money!

Thanks.
Click to expand...

SORRY for the long reply ...per Idaho laws, an attorney needs to be certified in death penalty cases in order to be the lead attorney on them. As of their most recent updated Roster of attorneys who are, you can see that list here https://pdc.idaho.gov/wp-content/uploads/sites/90/2021/03/PDC-Capital-Counsel-Roster.pdf

Mr Means & Mr Prior are not on that list, but from my own research I think either could remain on the case IF they are no longer the lead counsel.

There are some “alternate procedures” for attorneys who don’t meet the normal requirements to be certified, and those are from this guide @ https://pdc.idaho.gov/wp-content/up...ards-for-Defending-Attorneys_Edition-2018.pdf

“Alternate Procedures.
Attorneys who do not meet the qualifications in paragraphs D.1.a or D1.b, may still apply for inclusion on the Capital Counsel Roster. Such attorneys must be in compliance with Indigent Defense Standards, have extensive criminal trial defense counsel experience and demonstrate to the PDC that competent representation will be provided in a capital case. Attorneys under this paragraph shall also meet the following qualifications:
i. Demonstrated familiarity with and agree to abide by the performance standards in the current American Bar Association Guidelines for the Appointment and Performance of Defense Counsel in Death Penalty Cases and Performance of Defense Counsel in Death Penalty Cases and Supplementary Guidelines for the Mitigation Function of Defense Teams in Death Penalty cases; and
ii. Experience in some stage of death penalty litigation, whether or not the death penalty was imposed, which does not meet the levels required in paragraphs D.1.a or D.1.b above; or
iii. Attendance within one (1) year of application to a PDC-approved intensive capital training program.


a. Lead Appellate or post-conviction counsel must qualify as "lead trial counsel" under paragraph D.1.a, second chair must qualify as “co-counsel” under paragraph D.1.b, or meet the following requirements:
i. Be experienced and active post-conviction and appellate practitioners with at least ten (10) years’ experience in criminal defense.
ii. Have served as court appointed or retained counsel in the appeal or the post- conviction review of a case in which the death penalty was imposed, or have served as counsel in a habeas corpus death penalty case in Federal Court.
iii. Have attended and successfully completed at least twelve (12) hours of PDC- approved capital training, within the last two (2) years.
iv. Have demonstrated the necessary proficiency and commitment which exemplify the quality of representation appropriate to capital cases; and
v. Have substantial knowledge and understanding of the relevant state, federal and international law, both procedural and substantive, governing capital cases; and
vi. Have skill in the management and conduct of complex negotiations and litigation; and
vii. Have skill in legal research, analysis, and the drafting of litigation documents; and
viii. Have skill in oral advocacy; and
ix. Have skill in the use of expert witnesses and familiarity with the common areas of forensic investigation, including fingerprints, ballistics, forensic pathology, and DNA evidence; and
x. Have skill in the investigation, preparation, and presentation of evidence bearing upon mental status; and
xi. Have skill in the investigation, preparation, and presentation of mitigating evidence; and
xii. Have skill in the elements of trial advocacy, such as jury selection, cross- examination of witnesses, and opening and closing statements; and
xiii. Have skill in jury selection focused on methods that have proven successful in capital cases, such as the Colorado method.
xiv. Are familiar with and agree to abide by the performance standards in the current American Bar Association Guidelines for the Appointment and Performance of Defense Counsel in Death Penalty Cases and Supplementary Guidelines for the Mitigation Function of Defense Teams in Death Penalty cases.
b. Alternate Procedures.
Attorneys who do not meet the qualifications in paragraph 2.a, may still apply for inclusion on the Capital Counsel Roster. Such attorneys must be in compliance with Indigent Defense Standards, have extensive criminal trial defense counsel experience or extensive civil litigation experience, and demonstrate to the PDC that competent representation will be provided in a capital case. Attorneys under this paragraph shall also meet the following qualifications:


i. Demonstrated familiarity with and agree to abide by the performance standards in the current American Bar Association Guidelines for the Appointment and Performance of Defense Counsel in Death Penalty Cases; and
ii. Experience with the appeal and/or post-conviction litigation of death penalty cases or cases where the death penalty was sought but not imposed which does not meet the levels detailed in paragraph D.2.a above; or
iii. Attendance within one (1) year of application to a PDC-approved intensive capital training program.“.....
So all of that is to say that I think they could at least try to remain as co-counsel and try to meet some of these “alternate procedures”. And frankly, with all this time before we even get to trial, I wouldn’t be surprised if Prior or Means tried attending some of the PDC classes needed so that they can already start checking off some of the boxes in order to become qualified and placed on this Roster.
 
MTW2011 said:
SORRY for the long reply ...per Idaho laws, an attorney needs to be certified in death penalty cases in order to be the lead attorney on them. As of their most recent updated Roster of attorneys who are, you can see that list here https://pdc.idaho.gov/wp-content/uploads/sites/90/2021/03/PDC-Capital-Counsel-Roster.pdf

Mr Means & Mr Prior are not on that list, but from my own research I think either could remain on the case IF they are no longer the lead counsel.

There are some “alternate procedures” for attorneys who don’t meet the normal requirements to be certified, and those are from this guide @ https://pdc.idaho.gov/wp-content/up...ards-for-Defending-Attorneys_Edition-2018.pdf

“Alternate Procedures.
Attorneys who do not meet the qualifications in paragraphs D.1.a or D1.b, may still apply for inclusion on the Capital Counsel Roster. Such attorneys must be in compliance with Indigent Defense Standards, have extensive criminal trial defense counsel experience and demonstrate to the PDC that competent representation will be provided in a capital case. Attorneys under this paragraph shall also meet the following qualifications:
i. Demonstrated familiarity with and agree to abide by the performance standards in the current American Bar Association Guidelines for the Appointment and Performance of Defense Counsel in Death Penalty Cases and Performance of Defense Counsel in Death Penalty Cases and Supplementary Guidelines for the Mitigation Function of Defense Teams in Death Penalty cases; and
ii. Experience in some stage of death penalty litigation, whether or not the death penalty was imposed, which does not meet the levels required in paragraphs D.1.a or D.1.b above; or
iii. Attendance within one (1) year of application to a PDC-approved intensive capital training program.


a. Lead Appellate or post-conviction counsel must qualify as "lead trial counsel" under paragraph D.1.a, second chair must qualify as “co-counsel” under paragraph D.1.b, or meet the following requirements:
i. Be experienced and active post-conviction and appellate practitioners with at least ten (10) years’ experience in criminal defense.
ii. Have served as court appointed or retained counsel in the appeal or the post- conviction review of a case in which the death penalty was imposed, or have served as counsel in a habeas corpus death penalty case in Federal Court.
iii. Have attended and successfully completed at least twelve (12) hours of PDC- approved capital training, within the last two (2) years.
iv. Have demonstrated the necessary proficiency and commitment which exemplify the quality of representation appropriate to capital cases; and
v. Have substantial knowledge and understanding of the relevant state, federal and international law, both procedural and substantive, governing capital cases; and
vi. Have skill in the management and conduct of complex negotiations and litigation; and
vii. Have skill in legal research, analysis, and the drafting of litigation documents; and
viii. Have skill in oral advocacy; and
ix. Have skill in the use of expert witnesses and familiarity with the common areas of forensic investigation, including fingerprints, ballistics, forensic pathology, and DNA evidence; and
x. Have skill in the investigation, preparation, and presentation of evidence bearing upon mental status; and
xi. Have skill in the investigation, preparation, and presentation of mitigating evidence; and
xii. Have skill in the elements of trial advocacy, such as jury selection, cross- examination of witnesses, and opening and closing statements; and
xiii. Have skill in jury selection focused on methods that have proven successful in capital cases, such as the Colorado method.
xiv. Are familiar with and agree to abide by the performance standards in the current American Bar Association Guidelines for the Appointment and Performance of Defense Counsel in Death Penalty Cases and Supplementary Guidelines for the Mitigation Function of Defense Teams in Death Penalty cases.
b. Alternate Procedures.
Attorneys who do not meet the qualifications in paragraph 2.a, may still apply for inclusion on the Capital Counsel Roster. Such attorneys must be in compliance with Indigent Defense Standards, have extensive criminal trial defense counsel experience or extensive civil litigation experience, and demonstrate to the PDC that competent representation will be provided in a capital case. Attorneys under this paragraph shall also meet the following qualifications:


i. Demonstrated familiarity with and agree to abide by the performance standards in the current American Bar Association Guidelines for the Appointment and Performance of Defense Counsel in Death Penalty Cases; and
ii. Experience with the appeal and/or post-conviction litigation of death penalty cases or cases where the death penalty was sought but not imposed which does not meet the levels detailed in paragraph D.2.a above; or
iii. Attendance within one (1) year of application to a PDC-approved intensive capital training program.“.....
So all of that is to say that I think they could at least try to remain as co-counsel and try to meet some of these “alternate procedures”. And frankly, with all this time before we even get to trial, I wouldn’t be surprised if Prior or Means tried attending some of the PDC classes needed so that they can already start checking off some of the boxes in order to become qualified and placed on this Roster.
Click to expand...

I think this has been discussed at length earlier but if I recall correctly, they do not have to be certified as long as they are privately hired. Should they need a state appointed attorney, then those qualifications would need to be met.
 
Onsdag said:
Yet more kicking the can down the street.

John Prior mentioned the likelihood of a motion of severance... and did Mark Means say something about a motion to change Lori's name? Does that mean we're about to see Lori and Chad turning on each other?

All JMO.

Edit: nevermind on the name change for Lori. Going back and watching it it was Mr. Prior who mentioned a name change (?) for one of the witnesses. Not sure what that is about.
Click to expand...

Name change...? Somebody maybe get married/divorced? Just pointing out that it could be something dull instead of juicy, lol.
 
MTW2011 said:
SORRY for the long reply ...per Idaho laws, an attorney needs to be certified in death penalty cases in order to be the lead attorney on them. As of their most recent updated Roster of attorneys who are, you can see that list here https://pdc.idaho.gov/wp-content/uploads/sites/90/2021/03/PDC-Capital-Counsel-Roster.pdf

Mr Means & Mr Prior are not on that list, but from my own research I think either could remain on the case IF they are no longer the lead counsel.

There are some “alternate procedures” for attorneys who don’t meet the normal requirements to be certified, and those are from this guide @ https://pdc.idaho.gov/wp-content/up...ards-for-Defending-Attorneys_Edition-2018.pdf

“Alternate Procedures.
Attorneys who do not meet the qualifications in paragraphs D.1.a or D1.b, may still apply for inclusion on the Capital Counsel Roster. Such attorneys must be in compliance with Indigent Defense Standards, have extensive criminal trial defense counsel experience and demonstrate to the PDC that competent representation will be provided in a capital case. Attorneys under this paragraph shall also meet the following qualifications:
i. Demonstrated familiarity with and agree to abide by the performance standards in the current American Bar Association Guidelines for the Appointment and Performance of Defense Counsel in Death Penalty Cases and Performance of Defense Counsel in Death Penalty Cases and Supplementary Guidelines for the Mitigation Function of Defense Teams in Death Penalty cases; and
ii. Experience in some stage of death penalty litigation, whether or not the death penalty was imposed, which does not meet the levels required in paragraphs D.1.a or D.1.b above; or
iii. Attendance within one (1) year of application to a PDC-approved intensive capital training program.


a. Lead Appellate or post-conviction counsel must qualify as "lead trial counsel" under paragraph D.1.a, second chair must qualify as “co-counsel” under paragraph D.1.b, or meet the following requirements:
i. Be experienced and active post-conviction and appellate practitioners with at least ten (10) years’ experience in criminal defense.
ii. Have served as court appointed or retained counsel in the appeal or the post- conviction review of a case in which the death penalty was imposed, or have served as counsel in a habeas corpus death penalty case in Federal Court.
iii. Have attended and successfully completed at least twelve (12) hours of PDC- approved capital training, within the last two (2) years.
iv. Have demonstrated the necessary proficiency and commitment which exemplify the quality of representation appropriate to capital cases; and
v. Have substantial knowledge and understanding of the relevant state, federal and international law, both procedural and substantive, governing capital cases; and
vi. Have skill in the management and conduct of complex negotiations and litigation; and
vii. Have skill in legal research, analysis, and the drafting of litigation documents; and
viii. Have skill in oral advocacy; and
ix. Have skill in the use of expert witnesses and familiarity with the common areas of forensic investigation, including fingerprints, ballistics, forensic pathology, and DNA evidence; and
x. Have skill in the investigation, preparation, and presentation of evidence bearing upon mental status; and
xi. Have skill in the investigation, preparation, and presentation of mitigating evidence; and
xii. Have skill in the elements of trial advocacy, such as jury selection, cross- examination of witnesses, and opening and closing statements; and
xiii. Have skill in jury selection focused on methods that have proven successful in capital cases, such as the Colorado method.
xiv. Are familiar with and agree to abide by the performance standards in the current American Bar Association Guidelines for the Appointment and Performance of Defense Counsel in Death Penalty Cases and Supplementary Guidelines for the Mitigation Function of Defense Teams in Death Penalty cases.
b. Alternate Procedures.
Attorneys who do not meet the qualifications in paragraph 2.a, may still apply for inclusion on the Capital Counsel Roster. Such attorneys must be in compliance with Indigent Defense Standards, have extensive criminal trial defense counsel experience or extensive civil litigation experience, and demonstrate to the PDC that competent representation will be provided in a capital case. Attorneys under this paragraph shall also meet the following qualifications:


i. Demonstrated familiarity with and agree to abide by the performance standards in the current American Bar Association Guidelines for the Appointment and Performance of Defense Counsel in Death Penalty Cases; and
ii. Experience with the appeal and/or post-conviction litigation of death penalty cases or cases where the death penalty was sought but not imposed which does not meet the levels detailed in paragraph D.2.a above; or
iii. Attendance within one (1) year of application to a PDC-approved intensive capital training program.“.....
So all of that is to say that I think they could at least try to remain as co-counsel and try to meet some of these “alternate procedures”. And frankly, with all this time before we even get to trial, I wouldn’t be surprised if Prior or Means tried attending some of the PDC classes needed so that they can already start checking off some of the boxes in order to become qualified and placed on this Roster.
Click to expand...

Thanks...I could not remember if the two attorneys were or were not DP qualified. I would imagine being able to stay on this case plus a few more, would help a lot in making them DP qualified in the future. Thanks
 
pizzaman12 said:
I think this has been discussed at length earlier but if I recall correctly, they do not have to be certified as long as they are privately hired. Should they need a state appointed attorney, then those qualifications would need to be met.
Click to expand...
yes, you are right we did discuss this....just forgot. I sometimes have to skim over what is written as my eyesight blurs when reading small print. But I remember after you said "private hire''. I would hope that the Judge could make sure a DP lawyer was on board because I can see these two say "ineffective counsel".

Have to read in big print what MTW2011 linked for me!

thanks everyone....
 
They need to be qualified for the crime, at least in FL, I'd think all states would require it so not to have endless appeals. Back in Caylee Anthony's case, Jose Baez was borderline qualified. I believe he assisted in one or two death penalty cases? (help me oldies!) The state paid for qualified attorneys to help him in CA's defense. IIRC

Means, by no means is qualified to handle a murder or death penalty case by himself.

jmo
 
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That is interesting, the way the charges are now, that Chad has more charges than LVD. And that splitting the trials would actually be beneficial to LVD, as the gruesome pictures of Tylee and JJ have nothing to do with the conspiracy charges against LVD.

CD is really the one holding the bag here. The children were buried on his property (doh!), he is charged not only with conspiracy, but also destruction of evidence.

Isn't that absolutely Machiavellian that LVD could get less time than CD? Amazing.

I bet that CD is going to flip for a deal, and testify against LVD.

There is something so wrong with these people, that they could just frolic on the beach after killing children.
 
mickey2942 said:
That is interesting, the way the charges are now, that Chad has more charges than LVD. And that splitting the trials would actually be beneficial to LVD, as the gruesome pictures of Tylee and JJ have nothing to do with the conspiracy charges against LVD.

CD is really the one holding the bag here. The children were buried on his property (doh!), he is charged not only with conspiracy, but also destruction of evidence.

Isn't that absolutely Machiavellian that LVD could get less time than CD? Amazing.

I bet that CD is going to flip for a deal, and testify against LVD.

There is something so wrong with these people, that they could just frolic on the beach after killing children.
Click to expand...
I think I missed the gruesome pictures of the kids, what is that about? TIA
 
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