Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, Tylee Ryan, 16, Tammy Daybell, 49, Charles Vallow, 62, Oct 2019 *Arrests* #63

[mickey2942]

What I believe has happened, is that LVD has manipulated the system. She has manipulated MM, and has created drama in the court system. Manipulated providers, and I am interested to see what excuses and justifications will come out as a result of this situation.

These folks all have advanced degrees, and who is in charge? A hairdresser. They don't realize who has been pulling the strings.

 

[Forever Young]

Yes!

This confuses me. Was it an assessment done privately? If it was done by IDHW- It is impossible for me to get why the assessment has not been shared. (I could see some raw data being kept by the assessor in a record not shared with all involved staff, depending on what they mean..)

The way I am taking this, possibly, is that the State would like a total new evaluation, while the IDHW is floundering around wondering on what basis she is there? But, apparently, they can't tell each other that.

 

[CSIDreamer]

The way I am taking this, possibly, is that the State would like a total new evaluation, while the IDHW is floundering around wondering on what basis she is there? But, apparently, they can't tell each other that.

Color me confused.

 

[SleuthD-o-doubleg]

Local update: MM and JA were at the women’s detention center this morning

 

[fred&edna]

These folks all have advanced degrees, and who is in charge? A hairdresser. They don't realize who has been pulling the strings.

I just love this!

ETA: With respect to all hairdressers who are not LVD.

 

[LinasK]

Yes, I think postponing the trial would be a big reason, this is a person who, when the going gets tough, goes to Hawaii. Escaping from reality would be #1 priority. Also, pretty obvious Lori is a drama queen, whatever confusion and conflict she can create in any situation is it's own reward, it keeps up the thrilling story of Lori, Diety, Chosen One, etc. Likely there was no drama in jail, whereas in hospital, people are giving her lots of attention, listening to her stories...

But she won't be going to Hawaii ever again.

 

[LinasK]

Lori Hellis reported on this yesterday. Good read Can Lori be forced to take medication? — The Lori Vallow Story

This is the bottom line that I got out of the story: The need to extend her treatment makes more sense now that we know she has been refusing medication. The judge won't allow her to extend her treatment indefinitely while refusing to take medication. I expect that as long as the treatment providers indicate that medication is the most effective treatment, the judge will order forced medication.

 

[LinasK]

Lori Hellis reported on this yesterday. Good read Can Lori be forced to take medication? — The Lori Vallow Story

Another gem from this article: Lori is entitled to a defense by a competent lawyer, but her continued insistence on keeping Means may backfire. The judge has appointed a very qualified attorney for her. If Lori insists on keeping Means and following his advice, it will foreclose any chance she might have of claiming ineffective assistance of counsel on appeal.

 

[LinasK]

The United States Supreme court ruled that the Due Process Clause permits a state to treat an incarcerated inmate having a serious mental disorder with antipsychotic medication against his will, under the condition that he is dangerous to himself or others and the medication prescribed is in his best medical interest.[1]

Washington v. Harper - Wikipedia

To me, this is ambiguous, and treading on dangerous ground - since LV has not been convicted of any charge as of yet, and has not demonstrated that she is a danger to herself or others while incarcerated.

Sounds to me like she is entitled to a whole other trial (bench?) just to determine if the State can force her to be medicated against her will - where they will have to demonstrate that she is a danger to herself or others.

"Respondent Harper, an inmate in the Washington prison system since 1976, was believed to be violent when not on antipsychotic medication."

I say fine then, let the trial go on without her being medicated if that's what she wants.

The conviction part is irrelevant. What is relevant is whether she is a danger to herself or others and we really aren't a party to what goes on inside the facilities.

 

[dcfi224]

The conviction part is irrelevant. What is relevant is whether she is a danger to herself or others and we really aren't a party to what goes on inside the facilities.

Agreed, I have plenty of patients in my hospital who are not convicted of anything but have forced med orders (FMOs). And for the ones that aren’t able to make adequate medical decisions for themselves (determined not to have capacity, which is different than competency), they are assigned a guardian or medical power of attorney. I seriously hope that MM would not have that role. When we request FMOs, a judge comes to our hospital to evaluate the patient and makes that decision. We also have to specify which medications we are requesting and why. A patient is certainly allowed to not want to make a medication, as long as they are of sound judgement and mind. But if their capacity to make medical decisions is deemed compromised and the medical team has an adequate basis for their request (and have weighed risks vs. benefits), it’ll likely go in favor of the providers.

I am very surprised that the court is saying they haven’t received information from the providers. I can’t come up with a scenario in my head where no one remembered that needed to be done? I mean that’s the point of them working with her

I know someone’s supervisor is NOT very happy to have the AG know their name

 

[mickey2942]

I just love this!

ETA: With respect to all hairdressers who are not LVD.

Yes, people who are highly educated are especially easy to manipulate. They don't think that they can be...but, most are not psychopaths, or think that way.

If you look back at my previous posts, I practically predicted a fiasco. LVD is smart, like Brian David Mitchell. I would be interested in a Stanford Binet test, and MMPI results for LVD.

 

[fred&edna]

Yes, people who are highly educated are especially easy to manipulate. They don't think that they can be...but, most are not psychopaths, or think that way.

If you look back at my previous posts, I practically predicted a fiasco. LVD is smart, like Brian David Mitchell. I would be interested in a Stanford Binet test, and MMPI results for LVD.

You and I have been on precisely the same page wrt LVD's manipulation abilities. I would love to know what tests, evaluations, etc she's been given. Interestingly, I also believe subjecting LVD to some medications could possibly lessen her ability to manipulate... and may be a part of the reason for refusal. While manipulation is like breathing for her, meds could cause an occasional "gasp"/fault... resulting in slight failure for her success. (If that makes any sense, lol... and it's just a guess on my part)

 

[mickey2942]

@fred&edna that is interesting, and very possible. They have meds for Boderlines, it decreases their hyper control "B" condition. Sort of like a sedative, chill pill.

 

[JRWoodwardMSW]

[BIG SNIP].and the restrictions MM put on treatment from the beginning was ridiculous. Does he have a degree in clinical forensic psychology? Hmm...psychopharmacology?

.

No, he proudly attended the Joe Amendola School of Law - the $38 track.

 

[Kemug]

"I think that, just looking at the relationship of Chad and Tammy, that there were some unfulfilled needs or desires or whatever. And I think when Lori came along, it was the perfect opportunity of... again, it's that storm coming together... of unmet needs. It all blended in a really horendous way."

Is this guy now blaming Tammy for Chad's cheating?

Sounds like it to me. Like Tammy wasn't being a good enough wife, and Chad had "unmet needs." Well let me tell you buddy, any of his unmet needs paled into insignificance compared to Tammy's, with her husband's arrogance, laziness, stupidity, dalliances, etc, etc. If only she had left him!

 

[Gigiky]

Unmet needs! SMH! Wow!

 

[Laughing]

Sounds like it to me. Like Tammy wasn't being a good enough wife, and Chad had "unmet needs." Well let me tell you buddy, any of his unmet needs paled into insignificance compared to Tammy's, with her husband's arrogance, laziness, stupidity, dalliances, etc, etc. If only she had left him!

IMHO Tammy was a good Mom, and Chad needed parenting. Who worked outside the home, who kept the publishing (probably) breaking even, who kept the family together?

Tammy, as far as we can tell.

Tammy was the adult in the home.

Tammy apparently had more success raising the children she birthed than she had raising Chad IMHO.

In wholehearted agreement, the unmet needs are Tammy's!

dreamstime.com

jmho ymmv lrr

 

[BeachSky]

@fred&edna that is interesting, and very possible. They have meds for Boderlines, it decreases their hyper control "B" condition. Sort of like a sedative, chill pill.

Indeed.
pull back that evil veil…

MOO

 

[indicolite22]

According to Nate Sunderland in an interview on the podcast, The Followers: Madness of Two, the rumored theory of JJ and Tylee's death is also asphyxiation. Episode 5.

The last podcast episode will contain an interview with Lori's brother AC and his son ZC.

 

[mickey2942]

Sounds like it to me. Like Tammy wasn't being a good enough wife, and Chad had "unmet needs." Well let me tell you buddy, any of his unmet needs paled into insignificance compared to Tammy's, with her husband's arrogance, laziness, stupidity, dalliances, etc, etc. If only she had left him!

She was too busy raising kids, working full time, running "his" publishing company, giving him time to write books, travel...heck, she was even training for a 5k? So she could probably be attractive for him...