Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 16, Tammy Daybell, 49, Sept & Oct 2019 *Arrests* #59

[nyvictoria]

JMO and speculation...

I’m wondering why it took Means over a year to raise the issue of Lori’s incompetency. Did he raise the issue based solely on her whacky belief system? IMO Means was going merrily along with her claims of being a goddess, portals, marriage to Chad in one of their multiple probations, bible reading, singing and dancing etc. Then it starts to dawn on him that it’s more than likely that Chad will not be sticking to the plan and will throw Lori, along with her dear departed brother, under the bus. He tries to relate this to Lori, so they can begin planning for trial, but she refuses to believe it or deal with the possibility that she’s on her own. That’s when he decides that she’s incapable of understanding or helping with her defense and starts the process to have her declared incompetent. It just seems odd to me that, after meeting with the goddess for more than a year in jail, he’s just now questioning her sanity. Of course, she could actually be deteriorating mentally but I have a feeling it’s all because she won’t accept that Chad is not going to stand by her. And that’s not due to incompetency. She’s just a narcissist.

 

[887sMtreme]

Does anyone think that LV is coming up with some of these motions, telling MM what to do? MM was hoping to be on Priors coattails for this case and that fell through so MM is winging it, with LV as the side kick?

I have been thinking that Lori could be calling the shots on the “I won’t talk without my lawyer present” drama. She will not be able to game the H&W system and she wants him there to protect her. I’m making popcorn.

 

[MsJosie]

Local update: MM is at the women’s detention center today

thanks Sleuth for the updates. MM must live there.

I did not think much of the comment about LV still in jail, but after the latest motions I wonder. I read somewhere here, in a past post, that MM is holding up LV transfer to the hospital for evaluation. LV is still at the ‘local’ jail. With the last set of motions he filed, can he stop her transfer? Is that possible? Can the Judge send her off to the hospital no matter what MM or LV wants?

Delays and games I am afraid. Maybe she is not wanting to go because she will get no visitors not even MM for some time.

Thanks if anyone knows if this is possible.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I have been thinking that Lori could be calling the shots on the “I won’t talk without my lawyer present” drama. She will not be able to game the H&W system and she wants him there to protect her. I’m making popcorn.

The saying "careful what you wish for" comes to mind. Nurse Ratched won't be her bestie.

 

[nyvictoria]

thanks Sleuth for the updates. MM must live there.

I did not think much of the comment about LV still in jail, but after the latest motions I wonder. I read somewhere here, in a past post, that MM is holding up LV transfer to the hospital for evaluation. LV is still at the ‘local’ jail. With the last set of motions he filed, can he stop her transfer? Is that possible? Can the Judge send her off to the hospital no matter what MM or LV wants?

Delays and games I am afraid. Maybe she is not wanting to go because she will get no visitors not even MM for some time.

Thanks if anyone knows if this is possible.

IANAL so I don’t know if Means has standing to hold up her transfer and treatment but IMO he’s making a huge mistake by trying. He got her declared incompetent but now he doesn’t want her treated unless his ridiculous demands are met. What’s he going to do? Stomp his feet and throw a temper tantrum?

IMO the judge needs to replace him or assign him competent co-counsel to steer him through the proper way to defend someone so Lori doesn’t have any appealable issues down the road.

 

[mickey2942]

@MsJosie I have worked at court ordered inpatient psychiatric facilities. Clients get visits on Sundays, for three hours. That is it. Attorney and other appointments, like CPS, medical, whatever, are scheduled, as needed, but usually 1x a week, for one hour. Nothing like what MM wants.

Phone use is even more restricted than jail. It is based on approval by the primary provider. And usually, 15 minutes each call. Two calls a day. That is it. And the ones approved, were usually women who wanted to talk to their children or children caregivers. It seems to me that a provider would not see the need for LVD to have constant contact with MM. Maybe every other day would be sufficient.

 

[Luna20]

I can see her alternate between ordering and “desperately begging” him to do whatever he needs to in order to continue seeing her. She needs his constant attention plus IMO her manipulation MO includes making men believe she’s devoted to him. Looks to me like he’s swallowed it hook, line and sinker. I can’t decide if his wife must be furious or just thinks he’s an idiot. Or if he’s he’s lucky she shares his vision of book tours and podcast fame.

MOO

Knowing her she could be angling for more than a client relationship with him. Surrounding circumstances haven’t been an issue for her in previous relationships.

 

[noel leon]

Sounds alot like Casey Anthony with Jose Baez. She was spending the whole day at his law offices.

It worked.

 

[Spartygirl]

So she's been in jail for a year. Now she has no money..Now she's incompetent. What has Means been doing for a year except making frivolous complaints etc. Did all this just happen in the last few months? What has Means been doing towards her case in the last year with Lori.. watching her dance? He must be exhausted in not doing anything for a year. Now he wants money from Taxpayers to continue this bizarre behaviour. Jmo

He has been teaching her how to pass the incompetent class to declare her incompetency and her indigent declaration so she doesn't have to go to trial any time soon. IMO
They both know she is guilty and they are buying time IMO

 

[mickey2942]

He has been teaching her how to pass the incompetent class to declare her incompetency and her indigent declaration so she doesn't have to go to trial any time soon. IMO
They both know she is guilty and they are buying time IMO

I think that they wanted to have split trials and blame each other for reasonable doubt everywhere.

 

[Riverdoc]

I have been thinking that Lori could be calling the shots on the “I won’t talk without my lawyer present” drama. She will not be able to game the H&W system and she wants him there to protect her. I’m making popcorn.

Do you recall the shenanigans back in the first court appearance in Hawaii when at first it seemed she was going to refuse being sent back to Idaho because she wouldn’t verify her identity? And then confirmed her identity when jail is Hawaii was not very pleasant. She makes some odd legal strategies.

 

[deoneta]

I think Chad's and Lori's motives were the most common, greed and lust. I do however think their "belief system" played a large secondary role. Some of their beliefs are commonly held: that God speaks through prophets, past lives and a Judgement Day. Then things take a sinister turn with Chad and Lori portraying themselves as special messengers of God and the whole zombie nonsense. I think the duo used their cult to scam and control others and maybe also as a deluded self justification for their crimes.

As to Lori's supposed incompetency, I think she's faking with the help of MM whether knowingly or under the influence of man-magnet Lori. Lori being incompetent can work in her defense in two possible ways, delays which usually favor the defense and help put the weight on Chad and laying the groundwork for a possible mens rea defense.

Idaho doesn't have the usual insanity defense. From the American Psychological Association journal Insanity in the State of Idaho :

"Idaho law would distinguish the following two cases. Case One: The defendant, due to insanity, believes that the victim is a wolf. He shoots and kills the victim. Case Two: The defendant, due to insanity, believes that a wolf, a supernatural figure, has ordered him to kill the victim. In Case One, the defendant does not know he has killed a human being, and his insanity negates a mental element necessary to commit the crime. In Case Two, the defendant has intentionally killed a victim whom he knows is a human being; he possesses the necessary mens rea. In both cases the defendant is unable, due to insanity, to appreciate the true quality of his act, and therefore unable to perceive that it is wrong. But in Idaho, the defendant in Case One could defend the charge by arguing that he lacked the mens rea, whereas the defendant in Case Two would not be able to raise a defense based on his mental illness. [Delling v. Idaho, No. 11-1515 (U.S. Nov. 26, 2012) (Breyer, J., dissenting)]"

Crazy as it sounds, I wouldn't be surprised to see MM using this mens rea defense asserting Lori was brainwashed by Chad into believing their victims were actually zombies and not real people and therefore she lacked the mens rea to be wholly accountable for her crimes. All moo and speculation of course.

 

[indicolite22]

Crazy as it sounds, I wouldn't be surprised to see MM using this mens rea defense asserting Lori was brainwashed by Chad into believing their victims were actually zombies and not real people and therefore she lacked the mens rea to be wholly accountable for her crimes. All moo and speculation of course.

One of the problems with this defense is that they seemingly discussed their victim's deaths even before they were declared zombies. For example, Lori and Chad talked about death percentages for Tammy and JJ in late July.

 

[Lusitana]

Can’t something be done regarding MM not letting Lori receive treatment? Isn’t that illegal? If she had a broken arm, would it be allowed for her lawyer to delay her treatment? It’s basically the same thing, the longer she goes without treatment, the worse it’s going to get. This makes no sense. <modsnip>

 

[Kemug]

Tammy had been propping Chad up for their entire married life - and as soon as she wasn't there to prop him up any more, crash! he fell over.

 

[Nikynoo]

I think that they wanted to have split trials and blame each other for reasonable doubt everywhere.

Logically, if the prosecution in each case (if they are tried separately or even together) lay out the facts clearly and don't muddy the water, both will be found guilty. The evidence we have heard so far (especially that call from Chad to Lori just before his arrest) is a slam dunk for me.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

I am not a US resident so do not understand the ins and outs of the US Health System.

If this is a court ordered compentency, IMO the state would pay in either case. It does say that they take Medicare, as well as Insurance and self-pay, so I guess it is not a state hospital in the way that you mean?

I found this disclaimer interesting:
'Physicians are on the medical staff of Intermountain Hospital, but, with limited exceptions, are independent practitioners who are not employees or agents of Intermountain Hospital. The facility shall not be liable for actions or treatments provided by physicians.'

This disclaimer is really standard operating procedure here.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Nate Eaton - Reporter

Favorites · [Posted 10 hours ago on facebook from Nate]
"Try interviewing someone who is supposed to be you! Both Spencer Lord and I said this conversation was "surreal." Several months ago, he was hired to play me in a movie about the Daybell case (It airs on Lifetime June 26). We didn't meet until a few days ago on Zoom. The story of how Spencer got into acting is fascinating and I'll share our entire interview next week...but here's part of it where he talks about how he prepared to be ME. (Still so weird...)"



Video at link.. the actor had a week to prep?!... snippets that are leads for the future release of the video of the interview next week. (2:09 teaser video at his link)

 

[Colorado303]

@MsJosie I have worked at court ordered inpatient psychiatric facilities. Clients get visits on Sundays, for three hours. That is it. Attorney and other appointments, like CPS, medical, whatever, are scheduled, as needed, but usually 1x a week, for one hour. Nothing like what MM wants.

Phone use is even more restricted than jail. It is based on approval by the primary provider. And usually, 15 minutes each call. Two calls a day. That is it. And the ones approved, were usually women who wanted to talk to their children or children caregivers. It seems to me that a provider would not see the need for LVD to have constant contact with MM. Maybe every other day would be sufficient.

I struggle seeing how MM could justify upsetting her treatment protocol with unnecessary visits. Legally a waste of time (and tax payer dollars) what with Lori being incapable of assisting in her own defense and all. If he’s able to have productive meetings w/her they should send her bony arse back to jail and proceed to trial ASAP.

ETA: And if he says his visits aren’t for legal purposes, but for moral support as a friend — too darn bad. There’s no reason why Lori should merit more outside contact w/friends, family and other supporters than any other patient. Contrary to what she believes, she really is not special. At least not in any good way.

JMO of course.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I struggle seeing how MM could justify upsetting her treatment protocol with unnecessary visits. Legally a waste of time (and tax payer dollars) what with Lori being incapable of assisting in her own defense and all. If he’s able to have productive meetings w/her they should send her bony arse back to jail and proceed to trial ASAP.

JMO of course.

Agree, it's mutually exclusive MOO that the reason she is there is that she legally "cannot participate in her defense"... yet he wants to meet with her.

Ummm, why? She cannot help you.

I'm still surprised that NONE of these documents are on the court threads. EIN apparently has seen them and I have no doubt as to Nate and his group. But........... jeeeez... did defense depend on that none of these docs would be on the court site which ALLLLL HAVE BEFORE... with these as an exception.

I still cannot figure out why these two documents that EIN referred to are not on the court site a week later.

Anyone have any ideas as to why not on site, but public that Nate/EIN has them?

Idaho Judicial Cases of Interest <--- This link has all docs from prior to the new charges and the old ones below. But NOT the two recent ones by EIN.

Usually, they are up within 24 hours. MOO