Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 16, Tammy Daybell, 49, Sept & Oct 2019 *Arrests* #61

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Love Never Fails said:
Do you really think fear of the DP will cause either of them to flip or take a plea? The one that does is the one that never believed their own bs. Because they said they believed they were immortal. Laurie said she was a goddess. She is vein but I hope her attorney convinced her that her body and “all this” as she called it, isn’t worth a penny.
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LNF, I honestly think if one flips it will be LVD. I think it may be a part of her mental breakdown she is coming to the conclusion it was all just a game to Chad, she was never a goddess and there is no doomsday looming in the near future. LV put CD on a pedestal where he felt he belonged all his life, I am not justifying her actions at all, but I do think CB saw a emotional deficiencies in LV and played into it. I don't think either one of them would have ever acted on their own, but together they were a time bomb.
 
Love Never Fails said:
I believe it had to be for him to continue. And I can see him asking to stay on and assist the DP attorney when the DA asks for death.
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I guess it's possible, but why is there nothing on record with the courts approving this?

And there is this, ( Order Sealing State's Motion and Memorandum Objecting to the Entry of Appearance of Counsel and for a Finding of Conflict dated 7/27/2021 under both CD and LVDs cases.. Idaho Judicial Cases of Interest )
filed by Lindsay Blake... who is the counsel that they feel has a conflict? The only counsel that makes sense is MM because at one point he stated that he represented both CD and LVD which would be a conflict. Granted, we don't know the end result of this motion, so I guess it's possible the state is paying him, but for what? His client is currently incompetent and cannot assist in her own defense so he can't bill for the hours (days/weeks) he spends with his client that can't help him. I am not a lawyer, but it seems to me that something isn't right here. Jmo
 
indicolite22 said:
SBM. Just curious. Have you seen any indication that Chad and Lori had financial dealings outside of their group? Was there an entry fee for the 144k? Did Chad charge for his "readings" of family history and light/dark status? Unlike his friend JR, he didn't seem very business-oriented.
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I welcome your curiosity; I know you thoughtfully disagree and look forward to reading your interesting insights and interpretations.

This is what I think. 1) Chad is not necessarily the savviest of businessmen, but he was clearly in the mystical prophet world for the money. For instance, he was invested in promoting his friend JR because he benefitted from her book sales, too. I also do not think he seemed as detached from reality as Lori and JR were. I don’t know, but I suspect JR and LV had bonafide hallucinations and psychotic breaks- Chad managed to keep a steady marriage, the appearance of having work- etc. I think his profit hustle was possibly more cynical than JR’s. (This is not to say he didn’t also benefit from the ego affirmation- but you know what they say: Do what you love and the money will follow.)

2) Chad may have been full of himself to a diagnosable degree, but I do not believe he lost grip of reality to the point that he really believed a million dollars was going to keep him and Lori comfortable for life- they are young!

3) IMO, the LDS church has to do a dance around the “groups” because they benefit when members remain part of the mainstream church, and they have to know that if they push the crazies too hard, they will lose them. On the other hand, the mainstream church wants to keep it underground for their broader reputation. It is a difficult balance.

4) IMO, the groups have similar relationships with one another that they each have with the mainstream LDS church, except it is more like sibling rivalry with one another, and more like a parent teen struggle with the groups and the LDS church. My mind is too metaphoric- I hope that makes sense because I can’t come up with a direct way to express this.

4a) the groups compete, but also benefit from each others’ successes. For instance, AVOW benefits when subscribers pay for Chad’s subgroup.

4b) In addition to groups benefitting one another, they also benefit ordinary businesses selling tents ammo and batteries etc. This in turn goes right back to mainstream LDS when some typical parishioner (are they called that?) owns, say, a gun shop, and has more to tithe.

5) It is irrational to kill Charles for the money, if the money was intended to support a Hawaiian love nest. On the other hand, one million dollars was obviously wanted by the murderers badly enough to kill.

5a) I don’t know all of the intricacies in all of the groups, especially the clandestine groups. I think it is possible that something went down somewhere somehow that caused LV and or CD to owe someone a debt that Charles’ LI could have paid. Especially in light of Charles being a money tree-

MOO

PS: I can’t blame autocorrect for my repeated spelling remuneration wrong. How embarrassing. Maybe my blood sugar was low and I needed some pasghetti!
 
Ruminations said:
I welcome your curiosity; I know you thoughtfully disagree and look forward to reading your interesting insights and interpretations.

This is what I think. 1) Chad is not necessarily the savviest of businessmen, but he was clearly in the mystical prophet world for the money. For instance, he was invested in promoting his friend JR because he benefitted from her book sales, too. I also do not think he seemed as detached from reality as Lori and JR were. I don’t know, but I suspect JR and LV had bonafide hallucinations and psychotic breaks- Chad managed to keep a steady marriage, the appearance of having work- etc. I think his profit hustle was possibly more cynical than JR’s. (This is not to say he didn’t also benefit from the ego affirmation- but you know what they say: Do what you love and the money will follow.)

2) Chad may have been full of himself to a diagnosable degree, but I do not believe he lost grip of reality to the point that he really believed a million dollars was going to keep him and Lori comfortable for life- they are young!

3) IMO, the LDS church has to do a dance around the “groups” because they benefit when members remain part of the mainstream church, and they have to know that if they push the crazies too hard, they will lose them. On the other hand, the mainstream church wants to keep it underground for their broader reputation. It is a difficult balance.

4) IMO, the groups have similar relationships with one another that they each have with the mainstream LDS church, except it is more like sibling rivalry with one another, and more like a parent teen struggle with the groups and the LDS church. My mind is too metaphoric- I hope that makes sense because I can’t come up with a direct way to express this.

4a) the groups compete, but also benefit from each others’ successes. For instance, AVOW benefits when subscribers pay for Chad’s subgroup.

4b) In addition to groups benefitting one another, they also benefit ordinary businesses selling tents ammo and batteries etc. This in turn goes right back to mainstream LDS when some typical parishioner (are they called that?) owns, say, a gun shop, and has more to tithe.

5) It is irrational to kill Charles for the money, if the money was intended to support a Hawaiian love nest. On the other hand, one million dollars was obviously wanted by the murderers badly enough to kill.

5a) I don’t know all of the intricacies in all of the groups, especially the clandestine groups. I think it is possible that something went down somewhere somehow that caused LV and or CD to owe someone a debt that Charles’ LI could have paid. Especially in light of Charles being a money tree-

MOO

PS: I can’t blame autocorrect for my repeated spelling remuneration wrong. How embarrassing. Maybe my blood sugar was low and I needed some pasghetti!
Click to expand...

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but even in your p.s. renumeration is misspelled. Not picking on ya, just needed that little bit of levity because every single one of the cases I am currently following decided to take a ride on the crazy train this week.
 
Ruminations said:
I welcome your curiosity; I know you thoughtfully disagree and look forward to reading your interesting insights and interpretations.

This is what I think. 1) Chad is not necessarily the savviest of businessmen, but he was clearly in the mystical prophet world for the money. For instance, he was invested in promoting his friend JR because he benefitted from her book sales, too. I also do not think he seemed as detached from reality as Lori and JR were. I don’t know, but I suspect JR and LV had bonafide hallucinations and psychotic breaks- Chad managed to keep a steady marriage, the appearance of having work- etc. I think his profit hustle was possibly more cynical than JR’s. (This is not to say he didn’t also benefit from the ego affirmation- but you know what they say: Do what you love and the money will follow.)

2) Chad may have been full of himself to a diagnosable degree, but I do not believe he lost grip of reality to the point that he really believed a million dollars was going to keep him and Lori comfortable for life- they are young!

3) IMO, the LDS church has to do a dance around the “groups” because they benefit when members remain part of the mainstream church, and they have to know that if they push the crazies too hard, they will lose them. On the other hand, the mainstream church wants to keep it underground for their broader reputation. It is a difficult balance.

4) IMO, the groups have similar relationships with one another that they each have with the mainstream LDS church, except it is more like sibling rivalry with one another, and more like a parent teen struggle with the groups and the LDS church. My mind is too metaphoric- I hope that makes sense because I can’t come up with a direct way to express this.

4a) the groups compete, but also benefit from each others’ successes. For instance, AVOW benefits when subscribers pay for Chad’s subgroup.

4b) In addition to groups benefitting one another, they also benefit ordinary businesses selling tents ammo and batteries etc. This in turn goes right back to mainstream LDS when some typical parishioner (are they called that?) owns, say, a gun shop, and has more to tithe.

5) It is irrational to kill Charles for the money, if the money was intended to support a Hawaiian love nest. On the other hand, one million dollars was obviously wanted by the murderers badly enough to kill.

5a) I don’t know all of the intricacies in all of the groups, especially the clandestine groups. I think it is possible that something went down somewhere somehow that caused LV and or CD to owe someone a debt that Charles’ LI could have paid. Especially in light of Charles being a money tree-

MOO

PS: I can’t blame autocorrect for my repeated spelling remuneration wrong. How embarrassing. Maybe my blood sugar was low and I needed some pasghetti!
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After Tammy's death, Chad announced to the AVOW owner that he was leaving the GRI forum where he was posting his visions. He also said to multiple people that he was getting out of the publishing business. JR and Chad had a falling out in early 2019 due to business disagreements. He started missing PAP conferences due to "family reasons". It looks like he was distancing himself from the groups/people he used to have connections with. Perhaps he was just too busy with his cult. It's unclear how he was going to earn money after the life insurance money ran out.
 
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kshultz06082 said:
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but even in your p.s. renumeration is misspelled. Not picking on ya, just needed that little bit of levity because every single one of the cases I am currently following decided to take a ride on the crazy train this week.
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Well, at least I can finally blame autocorrect!
 
I’m so far behind…:eek:

When was Chad even charged with Tammy’s murder? Did it happen a long time ago and I somehow forgot? What’s the evidence we know about so far? Is it just evidence that Alex was involved in the attempted shooting and there’s no possible reason for him to try to shoot Tammy except to help Chad? I might have forgotten 1,000 things since I last logged in, sorry…

Anyway… it’s called “remuneration,” not “renumeration” (also a word but a different word haha). And 90% of the time when used in a spouse-killing case it just means they did it for the life insurance money.
 
@Niner sorry I've been away for a few days! The next court dates scheduled for LV's Madison case are:

  • 08/17/2021 Pre-trial Conference

    Judicial Officer
    Mallard, Michelle Radford

    Hearing Time
    10:00 AM

  • 08/30/2021 Jury Trial

    Judicial Officer
    Mallard, Michelle Radford

    Hearing Time
    9:00 AM
This case is also stayed as of 5/28 so I think they will vacate them as we get closer unless the judge rules differently before that. CD's next hearing is:

09/30/2021 Pre Trial

Judicial Officer
Boyce (District), Steven

Hearing Time
9:30 AM

I think this date will change now that they have asked for the DP and change of venue, MOO.
 
AZlawyer said:
I’m so far behind…:eek:

When was Chad even charged with Tammy’s murder? Did it happen a long time ago and I somehow forgot? What’s the evidence we know about so far? Is it just evidence that Alex was involved in the attempted shooting and there’s no possible reason for him to try to shoot Tammy except to help Chad? I might have forgotten 1,000 things since I last logged in, sorry…

Anyway… it’s called “remuneration,” not “renumeration” (also a word but a different word haha). And 90% of the time when used in a spouse-killing case it just means they did it for the life insurance money.
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BBM. All Idaho murder charges will filed on May 25.

Chad and Lori Daybell indicted for murders of JJ Vallow, Tylee Ryan and Tammy Daybell - East Idaho News
READ: Here is the indictment document for murder against Chad and Lori Daybell - East Idaho News

According to the indictment, Lori and Chad were texting each other about Tammy being a zombie named Viola. They were discussing Tammy's "death percentage" in July. Tammy's increased life insurance from Sep 8 is also mentioned.
 
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kshultz06082 said:
Right. But was it ever approved? And was it approved for her murder charges? I assume not because she hasn't even been arraigned on those charges and the concealment charges have been dropped.
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I do not know. Honestly, i would need someone local or someone who know where to find this information. If i can find a link somewhere I will post it. I didn't intend to be
argumentative. I just know he has to support himself and his family.
 
Berrybell said:
LNF, I honestly think if one flips it will be LVD. I think it may be a part of her mental breakdown she is coming to the conclusion it was all just a game to Chad, she was never a goddess and there is no doomsday looming in the near future. LV put CD on a pedestal where he felt he belonged all his life, I am not justifying her actions at all, but I do think CB saw a emotional deficiencies in LV and played into it. I don't think either one of them would have ever acted on their own, but together they were a time bomb.
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One minute I feel just as you do. Then the next minute I feel it was all LV. There is no evidence she has really had a breakdown. She has a history of knowing how to play people and pit one against another. Its just as you said. Together they were a time bomb. Pure evil.
 
Gardenista said:
I just googled and the average hourly rate for public defenders is $17 to $39/hour. It's very little and, additionally, they do not approve all of the hours you work or the miles that you bill.
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Is that Idaho? Kirk Nurmi, who handled the capital case against Jodi Arias received $240 an hour as a public defender. Of course, he said it wasn't worth what she did to his health.
 
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