Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 #3

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I’ve been catching up on this mornings reading and thank you @Maxxer500 for your information.
This is a bit unrelated, but I wanted to put it out there for further context.: Tammy visiting her parents a couple weeks before her death? It was apparently suggested to her by Chad. I forget what exactly he told her, but it was along the lines of "Your dead ancestors are telling me to tell you to visit your parents". If what Julie has said about Chad and her having 'visions' of Tammy dying soon is true, I wonder if Tammy's visit has something more to it on Chad's end.

MOO
I don’t think this is unrelated. I have been going back and forth on whether or not Chad has been completely in on the plotting of Tammy’s death. However, this information points more to his premeditation of it.

Everyone who has met Chad and speaks of him says how good hearted he is. I’m not sure how long it had been since Tammy last saw her parents, but he sounds like he didn’t want it on his conscious that they didn’t say goodbye. Also it would give him an opportunity to plot/meet up with Lori. MOO

Do you know the dates of when Tammy was visiting her parents?
 
I haven't interacted much in person or online with the Daybells in the past few years. Part of that is that I'm not active on Facebook, (where it seems most of the family communicates,) and another part is that they moved to Idaho. And I guess I've been caught up in my own life too. Most of the times I saw them would be around family get-togethers for Christmas and such.

•1. I don't think there was ever a change in Chad's or Tammy's personalities, or at least nothing big enough to notice at family gatherings.
•2. I never heard of any infidelity, but it should be noted I'm on the bottom of the information chain and would likely never hear about any if it did happen. Wouldn't be the first time I've been kept out of the surprisingly big loop.
•3. Talking about peoples' spiritual experiences in the family is pretty uncommon. It's usually considered too "sacred" or "special", or at least I think those are the words everyone would use. When people did discuss such experiences, it was usually only to one or two people at most. That being said, there was never any talk of Chad being a prophet to my knowledge; only that he had visions every now and again. But with the majority of the family being LDS, that was seen as him "being more in tune with the spirit". Knowing how strict Tammy could be regarding LDS practice/doctrine/policy I'm not sure she would have tolerated someone calling Chad a prophet though (for example, as a kid she lightly(?) scolded me for playing rated M games).
•Insights into Chad's personality, behaviors, etc: I'm currently questioning how long Chad has been lying to the family, how long he has been putting up a mask, and if the Chad I know is the real Chad or not. Based on how shocked my family has been by recent news, I might not be the only one wondering that, despite the fact that lots of my family has known him for over 30 years. That being said, the Chad I know doesn't raise any red flags with his traits. I'm terrible at putting together words to describe people, but here's an attempt: He was pious, caring, kind, and very hard to dislike because of those 3 traits. There was a video linked in thread #1 of him in an interview and honestly, with some slight difference given the setting, that's the Chad I know. Sorry if this doesn't help, it's been a long time since I've sat down and talked with him and my memory isn't kicking in like I wish it would.

Hi Maxxer, thanks for coming back and telling us more about your family. My impression of Chad is still the same as when I first started reading about him -- that he is generally a "good guy" who always did the "right thing" in his life. That all could have been an act like you said and the shock of that will be really hard for your family to accept. I've seen it happen in other cases here where someone fooled almost everyone they knew for many years but usually in those cases when police dug in they found things that indicated some subtle problems or warning signs earlier. Given Chad's history of no criminal record and no previous involvement in anything like what is currently happening, I still think it's possible that Lori may have been the one to lead Chad astray.

I wanted to ask about something, however, that could be a warning sign in cases where a spouse dies. I saw in this very tabloidy article that Chad and Tammy filed for Bankruptcy in 2008: Aunt Of Missing Idaho Kids Reveals Their Mom & Stepdad's Involvement In Secret 'Cult'
(I really don't like Radar Online but it's allowed here). Do you know anything about Chad and Tammy's money issues in 2008? Do you know why they had to file? Was it Chad's book sales being low for some reason? That happened so long ago that it might not seem relevant but bare with me... I'm wondering how he bounced back from that financial setback in 2008? I'm wondering if perhaps now over a decade later he was facing major financial difficulties again but this time perhaps he didn't see a way out of it? A bankruptcy is a red flag we see a lot in case when spouses die mysteriously. Financial pressures and an affair can be strong motivators to do evil even for someone with no past record of that behavior. Can you give us any insight on the Daybell's financial situation either past or present?

(Thanks again for being here and any insight you can share is much appreciated!)
 
Without trying to break TOS I have a question. Maybe @Maxxer500 would know. Was Tammy always in control of her own social media? Did she and chad happen to post on each others indicating they had shared passwords? I’m wondering if anyone IRL could verify the masked gunman?


Also, I have two thoughts on this.
1. I hope you @Maxxer500 rest assured that even with questions that are not directly about Tylee and JJ all of our biggest concerns are them. To me, knowing where Chad and Lori got married, indicates where the kids might be. If it was Hawaii, it’s possible they were “left” there with someone. That is my reason for wondering.

Without new leads it seems we are all digging through known location, safe places or people, and the like to figure out where they were.

2. For LE to know they got married IMHO they had to have married in a state with easily verifiable records. Or is it fast and easy for LE to do a USA statewide search on that?

I want to say Tammy and Chad had separate passwords for their separate accounts, but given how little I check Facebook I could be totally wrong. I can only think of one relative who shares their account with their SO, and they're as much a Daybell as me.

If there's anyone that can identify our masked gunman, I'd love to know who. Given the scenario, I don't know if anyone could though.

1. I wasn't calling anything on Websleuths into question, simply noting that other places around the web people have gotten very off topic. Everyone's been very helpful here and I understand why digging isn't always directly related to the missing kids. I have no concerns regarding this.

2. Chad told his kids he got married, which lead to them telling us. That's my only source right now. According to some chat logs I found out about their marriage November 23rd, and found out this case existed December 21st. It's sounded like in both instances I heard about things a couple days after my extended family did.
 
I’m wondering about the more recent timeline related to these entangled cases. Lori and Chad disappeared after welfare check 11/27-28, Tammy’s body exhumed 12/11, Alex’s death 12/12.

Why didn’t the police announce anything publicly until 12/20, almost a full month after the failed welfare check? As with most cases, I’m sure LE knows a whole lot more than they’re sharing publicly, but it seems like a long time.
 
From that article:

On Friday, Rexburg police indicated they believed the death was related to the disappearance of Joshua and Tylee, but they did not specify how.

The townhomes located at 565 Pioneer Road in Rexburg where police conducted a welfare check and served a search warrant in connection to the missing person cases of Joshua Vallow and Tylee Ryan. Eric Grossarth EASTIDAHONEWS.COM

According to a Rexburg Police news release, Joshua was last seen at Kennedy Elementary School on Sept. 23. Tylee was last seen that month as well.


The next day, Arizona authorities contacted Rexburg Police regarding a cell phone ping at the same Rexburg address, according to a Madison County Sheriff’s Office log. The log states it was in relation to a missing child case. Rexburg Police Capt. Gary Hagen told EastIdahoNews.com the call also had to do with the Arizona death investigations.

My thoughts/questions...

I’m just catching this “cell phone ping“. I would think the cell phone pinging has to be Tylee’s cell phone.
The police knew that Lori and Chad were at the townhome. But they were looking for the kids. This is not a good sign in my opinion.

ETA:
bolding by me- formatting by me

QUESTION- I’m also just noticing— ARIZONA AUTHORITIES. Who would they be? Arizona FBI? Who is allowed to do cell phone pings that fast? Or were they already tracking a particular phone? Would Rexburg have gone back WITHOUT the ARIZONA authorities?
 
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I’m wondering about the more recent timeline related to these entangled cases. Lori and Chad disappeared after welfare check 11/27-28, Tammy’s body exhumed 12/11, Alex’s death 12/12.

Why didn’t the police announce anything publicly until 12/20, almost a full month after the failed welfare check? As with most cases, I’m sure LE knows a whole lot more than they’re sharing publicly, but it seems like a long time.

Good question. I could make a case that they didn't realize all the red flags (Tammy's death being suspicious, etc) with the case until later. But the kids were still missing, they'd been lied to, and felt it was serious enough to get a warrant which should have raised another red flag when they discovered Chad and Lori had fled.

I try to imagine why they might have felt like backing off made sense and keep coming back to LE being concerned enough to get the warrant when they discovered they'd been lied to and then didn't pull out all the stops when they discovered Chad and Lori had fled. It makes no sense.
 
From that article:

On Friday, Rexburg police indicated they believed the death was related to the disappearance of Joshua and Tylee, but they did not specify how.
The townhomes located at 565 Pioneer Road in Rexburg where police conducted a welfare check and served a search warrant in connection to the missing person cases of Joshua Vallow and Tylee Ryan. Eric Grossarth EASTIDAHONEWS.COM

According to a Rexburg Police news release, Joshua was last seen at Kennedy Elementary School on Sept. 23. Tylee was last seen that month as well.


The next day, Arizona authorities contacted Rexburg Police regarding a cell phone ping at the same Rexburg address, according to a Madison County Sheriff’s Office log. The log states it was in relation to a missing child case. Rexburg Police Capt. Gary Hagen told EastIdahoNews.com the call also had to do with the Arizona death investigations.

My thoughts/questions...

I’m just catching this “cell phone ping“. I would think the cell phone pinging has to be Tylee’s cell phone.
The police knew that Lori and Chad were at the townhome. But they were looking for the kids. This is not a good sign in my opinion.
I’m thinking even more about this. In ONE day LE asked for a search warrant and stated the ping was related to death investigations. IMHO, they knew then that this was all tied together AND possibly to the attempt on Brandon. I’m going to bet, this did originate with the attempt at Brandon, and family got concerned then and FBI got involved then.

Also, did you catch this at the end of the article? I should have quoted it.
According to a Rexburg Police news release, Joshua was last seen at Kennedy Elementary School on Sept. 23. Tylee was last seen that month as well.

Read more here: https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/northwest/idaho/article238688373.html#storylink=cpy
 
I hope their “backing off” included tailing and recording key players. It would mean they might have possible evidence with Alex. Yet, these two are not “official” POI’s yet.
Good question. I could make a case that they didn't realize all the red flags (Tammy's death being suspicious, etc) with the case until later. But the kids were still missing, they'd been lied to, and felt it was serious enough to get a warrant which should have raised another red flag when they discovered Chad and Lori had fled.

I try to imagine why they might have felt like backing off made sense and keep coming back to LE being concerned enough to get the warrant when they discovered they'd been lied to and then didn't pull out all the stops when they discovered Chad and Lori had fled. It makes no sense.
 
Hi Maxxer, thanks for coming back and telling us more about your family. My impression of Chad is still the same as when I first started reading about him -- that he is generally a "good guy" who always did the "right thing" in his life. That all could have been an act like you said and the shock of that will be really hard for your family to accept. I've seen it happen in other cases here where someone fooled almost everyone they knew for many years but usually in those cases when police dug in they found things that indicated some subtle problems or warning signs earlier. Given Chad's history of no criminal record and no previous involvement in anything like what is currently happening, I still think it's possible that Lori may have been the one to lead Chad astray.

I wanted to ask about something, however, that could be a warning sign in cases where a spouse dies. I saw in this very tabloidy article that Chad and Tammy filed for Bankruptcy in 2008: Aunt Of Missing Idaho Kids Reveals Their Mom & Stepdad's Involvement In Secret 'Cult'
(I really don't like Radar Online but it's allowed here). Do you know anything about Chad and Tammy's money issues in 2008? Do you know why they had to file? Was it Chad's book sales being low for some reason? That happened so long ago that it might not seem relevant but bare with me... I'm wondering how he bounced back from that financial setback in 2008? I'm wondering if perhaps now over a decade later he was facing major financial difficulties again but this time perhaps he didn't see a way out of it? A bankruptcy is a red flag we see a lot in case when spouses die mysteriously. Financial pressures and an affair can be strong motivators to do evil even for someone with no past record of that behavior. Can you give us any insight on the Daybell's financial situation either past or present?

(Thanks again for being here and any insight you can share is much appreciated!)

I was a young kid in 2008, and my parents didn't know of a bankruptcy in 2008. So either the bankruptcy was secret, or never happened. How he bounced back I have a vague idea, but unfortunately that secret cult forum (not AVOW, not PAP either) I mentioned in thread #1 is the only source. Without a link, I can't justify talking about it because I know almost nothing without being able to check the site.

I’ve been catching up on this mornings reading and thank you @Maxxer500 for your information.


MOO
I don’t think this is unrelated. I have been going back and forth on whether or not Chad has been completely in on the plotting of Tammy’s death. However, this information points more to his premeditation of it.

Everyone who has met Chad and speaks of him says how good hearted he is. I’m not sure how long it had been since Tammy last saw her parents, but he sounds like he didn’t want it on his conscious that they didn’t say goodbye. Also it would give him an opportunity to plot/meet up with Lori. MOO

Do you know the dates of when Tammy was visiting her parents?

The first weekend of October (October 5th and 6th).

I shared some of the cached pages of his website on past pages. After reading those, I think I mentioned that he seemed like a gregarious, braggadocious, almost living in the past personality. I found it super odd for him to be deeply religious yet posting stories, multiple ones, about past high school dates and escapades. Or even referring to things like,” I thought I would be single”.
This gave me a picture of him that did not fit his outward appearance. Do you agree with that picture?

I agree, that picture very much does not fit my recollection of him.
 
My thoughts/questions...

I’m just catching this “cell phone ping“. I would think the cell phone pinging has to be Tylee’s cell phone.
The police knew that Lori and Chad were at the townhome. But they were looking for the kids. This is not a good sign in my opinion.

So what does this tell us and is it something we didn't already know?

I'm guessing the ping could have been recent or could have been some time. While it seems to indicate that Tylee was there at some point, that isn't new news. (There is at least some indication that she was although that is vague and uncertain in my mind whereas JJ was there for sure.)

I do wonder where the phone is. Is it still working? Is it being charged or has it been turned off? If Chad and Lori knew they were going to be chased, even if they have Tylee with them, I'd assume they'd take her phone and turn it off. We've had discussion regarding them probably getting a burner phone to communicate themselves with the lawyer or anyone else they are in contact with.
 
Good question. I could make a case that they didn't realize all the red flags (Tammy's death being suspicious, etc) with the case until later. But the kids were still missing, they'd been lied to, and felt it was serious enough to get a warrant which should have raised another red flag when they discovered Chad and Lori had fled.

I try to imagine why they might have felt like backing off made sense and keep coming back to LE being concerned enough to get the warrant when they discovered they'd been lied to and then didn't pull out all the stops when they discovered Chad and Lori had fled. It makes no sense.

Good thinking...yeah it seems like they finally connected the dots from the multiple investigations in multiple states. I’m wondering if LE didn’t want to ‘paint them in a corner’ and potentially create a more desperate situation, so LE held off for awhile before going public.
 
@Maxxer500 [QUOTE="Maxxer500, post: 15675163, member:



Tammy exhibited health issues the night of her death, and I'm not aware of anything before then. Tammy woke up in the middle of the night she died, apparently coughing badly enough to cause her to vomit. Then when Chad woke in the morning he found her fallen out of bed and cold.




HOLY COW! I had so many posts to read just to catch up, not including writing this response post. Thanks for continuing the investigation everyone, I hope there's some helpful info from Tammy's autopsy soon, even if LE doesn't let us in on it.[/QUOTE]
***********************************************


Did someone besides Chad state that Tammy was sick? It sounds like one of the Daybell adult children may have been in the house at the time..Did they also say this?

Did Tammy talk to any other family members and tell them she was sick?
 
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Good thinking...yeah it seems like they finally connected the dots from the multiple investigations in multiple states. I’m wondering if LE didn’t want to ‘paint them in a corner’ and potentially create a more desperate situation, so LE held off for awhile before going public.

It sure feels that way. But that also means (or should mean) they either thought the kids were either already dead or that they were alive and in no danger. Possibly they found out something that they aren't saying which took them from thinking they were alive and in no danger to thinking there actually was danger.
 
I am so confused about these threads and how some I can reply to and others I can't....?? And where this post will show up. But in regard to my daughter doing the interviews, she only did them because she kept getting asked to. She wanted to simply say publicly that she loves Lori and Tylee, and share how awesome they are. I will share that she can't process any of this. She only knows what I've told her because she is not following this story in the news or elsewhere. She doesn't like to talk about it at all or speculate. I can't talk about it around her anymore because she shuts down. In her mind, the kids must be fine, wherever they are, because they are with Lori. And eventually everything will be resolved. She comes off as a bit unconcerned and that is why. But she isn't going to do any more interviews or talk about it publicly again, she felt nervous and uncomfortable the whole time. I do have a question, does anyone know where Alex was when he died, ...Arizona?
 
Good question. I could make a case that they didn't realize all the red flags (Tammy's death being suspicious, etc) with the case until later. But the kids were still missing, they'd been lied to, and felt it was serious enough to get a warrant which should have raised another red flag when they discovered Chad and Lori had fled.

I try to imagine why they might have felt like backing off made sense and keep coming back to LE being concerned enough to get the warrant when they discovered they'd been lied to and then didn't pull out all the stops when they discovered Chad and Lori had fled. It makes no sense.
LE had some contact with Lori and Chad after they fled. My guess is they went public when Lori and Chad cut off all contact.
 
I am so confused about these threads and how some I can reply to and others I can't....?? And where this post will show up. But in regard to my daughter doing the interviews, she only did them because she kept getting asked to. She wanted to simply say publicly that she loves Lori and Tylee, and share how awesome they are. I will share that she can't process any of this. She only knows what I've told her because she is not following this story in the news or elsewhere. She doesn't like to talk about it at all or speculate. I can't talk about it around her anymore because she shuts down. In her mind, the kids must be fine, wherever they are, because they are with Lori. And eventually everything will be resolved. She comes off as a bit unconcerned and that is why. But she isn't going to do any more interviews or talk about it publicly again, she felt nervous and uncomfortable the whole time. I do have a question, does anyone know where Alex was when he died, ...Arizona?
You wont be able to reply to posts in a locked/closed thread, just the newest open one. Your post will show up at the very end of the thread, (not right under one you have replied to like in some forums).
Alex Cox died in Gilbert Az on December 12
Chandler, Gilbert deaths tied to cult mystery
I am sorry this has been so hard for you and your daughter. I will pray for her.
Moo.
 
It sure feels that way. But that also means (or should mean) they either thought the kids were either already dead or that they were alive and in no danger. Possibly they found out something that they aren't saying which took them from thinking they were alive and in no danger to thinking there actually was danger.

Maybe Alex’s death and whatever led to Tammy’s death being deemed suspicious put some fire under LE’s feet.

I’m also still wondering about how Tammy’s death ended up being deemed suspicious. Chicken or egg question...was there something inherently suspicious about her death...otherwise good health, Chad not wanting an autopsy, potential life insurance payout? (Life insurance company could have opened an investigation...) Or was it the missing children situation that prompted the suspicion? Tangled web!
 
So what does this tell us and is it something we didn't already know?

I'm guessing the ping could have been recent or could have been some time. While it seems to indicate that Tylee was there at some point, that isn't new news. (There is at least some indication that she was although that is vague and uncertain in my mind whereas JJ was there for sure.)

I do wonder where the phone is. Is it still working? Is it being charged or has it been turned off? If Chad and Lori knew they were going to be chased, even if they have Tylee with them, I'd assume they'd take her phone and turn it off. We've had discussion regarding them probably getting a burner phone to communicate themselves with the lawyer or anyone else they are in contact with.

Good thinking...yeah it seems like they finally connected the dots from the multiple investigations in multiple states. I’m wondering if LE didn’t want to ‘paint them in a corner’ and potentially create a more desperate situation, so LE held off for awhile before going public.
I’m not sure if it’s stuff we didn’t already know or I missed it. Key to me is the fact that they, Rexburg police, were notified by Arizona authorities. Those Arizona authorities could be the Arizona-based FBI. The article states this after indicating they were notified by Arizona authorities.

“Following the request, Rexburg Police executed search warrants at the home.”

To me, that says that the Arizona authorities wanted them to search the home. We do not definitely know if Rexburg would have gone back to execute a search warrant on their own. We know the attempt on Brandon was from Arizona.

We know he stated that it was Tylee‘s jeep, so I imagine they were looking into Tylee‘s connection and found her cell phone ping at the townhome. No evidence of Tylee, yet her cell phone there is very suspicious IF that’s whose cell phone ping we are discussing. Could it be Alex’s cell phone? Them finding his phone there would make sense too and arouse suspicions, I am sure.
 
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