Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom arrested* #27

[Patch Tuesday]

Police searching for Rexburg children believed to be in serious danger | East Idaho News

I believe this is going to be a more complicated case than it looks on the surface. The children's mother (Lori Wallows) recently married a man (Chad Daybell) a few weeks after his wife died. It was presumed the late wife had died of natural causes but was exhumed recently and her death is now being investigated.
The new wife's husband was shot in a family argument earlier this year:

Chandler Police identify man who was shot dead during family fight

The husband and wife are not cooperating with police and have since vanished.

ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *MEDIA MAPS TIMELINE*NO DISCUSSION


Timeline Links (Update 7):
Part I (1968 - 2017)
Part II (Dec 2017 - 10 July 2019)
Part III (11 July 2019)
Part IV (12 July 2019 - 30 Nov 2019)
Part V (December 2019)
Part VI (January 2020)
Part VII (February 2020)


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Thread #25

Thread #26

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

This thread is dedicated to discussion of two missing kids, JJ and Tylee.

The thread does not exist to chit chat about your own religious doctrines, discuss temples, tithing, BYU, physical appearance, etc. Forty seven of such off topic posts have just been removed.

Do not ignore Moderator warnings.

Stay on topic or thread reply bans or TOs will be issued.

 

[mickey2942]

I thought about something today, that currently Lori is dealing with state charges.

There could be federal charges pending, probably in the "back pocket", for the next whammy. I am still thinking about the Social Security Death Benefits fraud for both Tylee and JJ, who are receiving benefits from the deaths of their respective fathers. If LV gets charged with potential fraud by Social Security, she needs to show the children, or benefits will be discontinued and fraud charges against LV will be started.

 

[Gardener1850]

Well, one good reason for doing so was that it put pressure on Lori and forced her to appear in court and produce the kids. When she failed to do so, she was in contempt of court and that helped lead to an arrest.

As the children's legal guardians, they have the control. They probably won't give up until the children are found and they have some closure.

Imo

That's not quite correct. JJ's grandparents filed for guardianship AFTER Lori had already been served with the child protection order requiring her to appear in Idaho and physically produce the children.
Lori was served that order on Jan 25th.
She had until Jan 30th to produce the kids.
KW & LW made their guardianship filing on January 29th.
Kay said in an interview they had no idea where Lori and Chad were, nor did they know anything about the Idaho court order to produce the kids until they saw it on the news like everyone else. They filed for guardianship on January 29th in anticipation and hope that Lori would produce the kids- and because the court order meant that, if Lori appeared with the kids, the kids would be put into foster care while the state investigated. JJ's grandparents know he has special needs and know that he would be best in their care instead of in the home of strangers. The petition they filed would have only given them temporary guardianship of JJ for 6 months and he would still be in legal custody of the state of Idaho. As it stands right now, Lori disobeyed the court order so JJ and Tylee are considered to be in custody of the state (even while missing).

 

[Sillybilly]

Stop posting pictures of family members and sleuthing them. It is a violation of WS TOS and may result in a loss of posting privileges.

Thanks.

 

[BigAl16]

I thought about something today, that currently Lori is dealing with state charges.

There could be federal charges pending, probably in the "back pocket", for the next whammy. I am still thinking about the Social Security Death Benefits fraud for both Tylee and JJ, who are receiving benefits from the deaths of their respective fathers. If LV gets charged with potential fraud by Social Security, she needs to show the children, or benefits will be discontinued and fraud charges against LV will be started.

As someone else suggested, these could be ready and waiting to be used if she makes bail. Maybe not, but certainly possible if there is concern with what might happen if she's running free.

 

[vislaw]

I saw a report that Chad responded to a reporter when he left Hawaii that the kids are safe and I also believe a neighbor or some other third party reported he said essentially the same thing, without elaborating. I also saw that Christopher Parret of AVOW, one of the few supporters of the couple to speak publicly, said "they told him what has been going on with the kids, the marriage, Tammy's death, etc." and that the situation boils down to a “nasty, ugly custody case…involving major sums of money driven by ‘Grandma." Have there been any other statements, by either Chad or someone on his behalf, to the effect that the kids are safe or with some purported explanation as to what is going on?

I'm assuming LE has been or will be knocking on Parret's door. … Having said that BOTH Lori and Chad "told him what has been going on with the kids" makes him an important witness, in my opinion. Any thoughts on this by you all?

 

[Alpha Bravo]

As someone else suggested, these could be ready and waiting to be used if she makes bail. Maybe not, but certainly possible if there is concern with what might happen if she's running free.

Sometimes a big bail might be used on separate charges, as we are looking at potentially here. Since it's at a mil, likely would even if a murder case. Multiple murders? Perhaps a dif story. Interested in seeing what happens!

 

[Alpha Bravo]

I saw a report that Chad responded to a reporter when he left Hawaii that the kids are safe and I also believe a neighbor or some other third party reported he said essentially the same thing, without elaborating. I also saw that Christopher Parret of AVOW, one of the few supporters of the couple to speak publicly, said "they told him what has been going on with the kids, the marriage, Tammy's death, etc." and that the situation boils down to a “nasty, ugly custody case…involving major sums of money driven by ‘Grandma." Have there been any other statements, by either Chad or someone on his behalf, to the effect that the kids are safe or with some purported explanation as to what is going on?

I'm assuming LE has been or will be knocking on Parret's door. … Having said that BOTH Lori and Chad "told him what has been going on with the kids" makes him an important witness, in my opinion. Any thoughts on this by you all?

Exactly correct. Melani was interviewed, several times. She had also claimed to know where the kids are (IIRC) If CP actually KNOWS where they are, and wont tell LE, he should be charged with obstruction. He will likely say he was bluffing/lying as Melani apparently was. If that's the case, would like to see it be made public.

ETA: In any case, that statement was a first class ticket to visit some well dressed lawmen at the time and place of their choosing. What a NALDS.

 

[tresir2012]

This is why I was wondering if AVOW would decide to follow HS/PTZ and PaP and distance/disband/delete/deflect away from Chad.

What’s the consensus here?

I can't see them doing that. If they have 13,000 subscribers paying $44.95 annually minimum that's close to $650,000 pa. Paying $14.95 monthly would be about $2,500,000 pa so they would be saying goodbye to annual income perhaps somewhere between the two figures maybe $1.2 million.
They may rebrand though. MOO.

 

[Sticksandspades]

Could you give us a quick summary or precis in a couple of sentences?

Well I can try, but I'm not a lawyer - AZlawyer, Mormon Attorney please help!

This summarizes the charges Lori faces and which Statute they fall under:

1 Desertion and Nonsupport of Dependent Child Under 18 YOA I18-401(1) Felony 09/23/2019
2 Desertion and Nonsupport of Dependent Child Under 18 YOA I18-401(1) Felony 09/08/2019
3 Arrests & Seizures-Resisting or Obstructing Officers I18-705 Misdemeanor 11/26/2019
4 Criminal Solicitation to Commit a Crime I18-2001 {M} Misdemeanor 11/26/2019
5 Contempt of Court-Criminal-Willful disobedience or court process or order 18-1801(4) Misdemeanor 01/30/2020

There are two parts of the code being referenced:

This first part is found in Title 16 - Juvenile Code (which appears to be what the defense attorney was referencing during the bail reduction request) it defines abandonment. However, I'm not sure this definition will hold much water as she is being charged under Title 18 and this definition is for purposes of Chapter 16. Now, I'm in way over my head.....but....MOO I think it was a red herring on the part of the defense atty.

Section 16-1602 – Idaho State Legislature

TITLE 16
JUVENILE PROCEEDINGS
CHAPTER 16
CHILD PROTECTIVE ACT
16-1602. DEFINITIONS. For purposes of this chapter:

(2) "Abandoned" means the failure of the parent to maintain a normal parental relationship with his child including, but not limited to, reasonable support or regular personal contact. Failure to maintain this relationship without just cause for a period of one (1) year shall constitute prima facie evidence of abandonment.


Here is the statute on desertion.....notice this is in Title 18 Crimes and Punishment Ch4 Abandonment OR Nonsupport of wife or children. I could not find a definition for abandonment in this chapter. She is being charged under section 18-401 which talks about desertion with the intent to abandon.
Title 18 – Idaho State Legislature


TITLE 18
CRIMES AND PUNISHMENTS
CHAPTER 4
ABANDONMENT OR NONSUPPORT OF WIFE OR CHILDREN
18-401. DESERTION AND NONSUPPORT OF CHILDREN OR SPOUSE. Every person who:
(1) Having any child under the age of eighteen (18) years dependent upon him or her for care, education or support, deserts such child in any manner whatever, with intent to abandon it;
(2) Willfully omits, without lawful excuse, to furnish necessary food, clothing, shelter, or medical attendance for his or her child or children, or ward or wards; provided however, that the practice of a parent or guardian who chooses for his child treatment by prayer or spiritual means alone shall not for that reason alone be construed to be a violation of the duty of care to such child;

Shall be guilty of a felony and shall be punishable by a fine of not more than five hundred dollars ($500), or by imprisonment for not to exceed fourteen (14) years, or both.

Hope this makes a little sense, and the real lawyers can set us straight!

 

[Randocalrissian]

I feel a bit differently about the two different services. I took the differences as pretty normal.
1) I don't think Tammy and Chad acted as much a close couple once they moved to Rexburg. He was doing his thing, and I suspect she was doing hers more. I have asked, if she ever went to the podcasts and seminars. I never got an answer to that, but perhaps asking it again will net some response.
2) When my husband passed away last year, my efforts were to put more into memorial services where we used to live, rather than here, where we had lived for close to 10 years. Most relatives and friends and certainly deeper memories were up there.

I don’t know about point one. But I wholehearted agree with point two. Remember Tammy’s parents, siblings, nieces and nephews, and lifelong friends all still live in Springville or nearby. The only weird thing about the funeral in Utah was how quickly it occurred. And some of Chad’s behavior and comments, which I have shared on earlier threads.

 

[Sticksandspades]

I can't see them doing that. If they have 13,000 subscribers paying $44.95 annually minimum that's close to $650,000 pa. Paying $14.95 monthly would be about $2,500,000 pa so they would be saying goodbye to annual income perhaps somewhere between the two figures maybe $1.2 million.
They may rebrand though. MOO.

Thanks - that's a much larger following than I anticipated.

 

[BigAl16]

I saw a report that Chad responded to a reporter when he left Hawaii that the kids are safe and I also believe a neighbor or some other third party reported he said essentially the same thing, without elaborating. I also saw that Christopher Parret of AVOW, one of the few supporters of the couple to speak publicly, said "they told him what has been going on with the kids, the marriage, Tammy's death, etc." and that the situation boils down to a “nasty, ugly custody case…involving major sums of money driven by ‘Grandma." Have there been any other statements, by either Chad or someone on his behalf, to the effect that the kids are safe or with some purported explanation as to what is going on?

I'm assuming LE has been or will be knocking on Parret's door. … Having said that BOTH Lori and Chad "told him what has been going on with the kids" makes him an important witness, in my opinion. Any thoughts on this by you all?

Someone (I think a reporter from ABC) asked Chad if "his kids were safe" and he responded yes. But to describe Tylee and JJ as "his kids" (two kids that there isn't any evidence that he has ever met) is a stretch. In Chad's place, I could answer that way and feel like I was being honest, maybe (depending on state of mind) without even realize what they were asking.

What it comes down to is that if JJ and Tylee really are safe or even alive there are all kinds of ways that they could demonstrate that and it would cause the problem to go away, but it's now been multiple months since this hit the news LE first inquired after the kids and they haven't done so. As for the custody issue, it wasn't when the kids disappeared. It probably is now, but it was of their making.

 

[BigAl16]

I can't see them doing that. If they have 13,000 subscribers paying $44.95 annually minimum that's close to $650,000 pa. Paying $14.95 monthly would be about $2,500,000 pa so they would be saying goodbye to annual income perhaps somewhere between the two figures maybe $1.2 million.
They may rebrand though. MOO.

They aren't getting that much in revenue.

 

[indicolite22]

I saw a report that Chad responded to a reporter when he left Hawaii that the kids are safe and I also believe a neighbor or some other third party reported he said essentially the same thing, without elaborating. I also saw that Christopher Parret of AVOW, one of the few supporters of the couple to speak publicly, said "they told him what has been going on with the kids, the marriage, Tammy's death, etc." and that the situation boils down to a “nasty, ugly custody case…involving major sums of money driven by ‘Grandma." Have there been any other statements, by either Chad or someone on his behalf, to the effect that the kids are safe or with some purported explanation as to what is going on?

I'm assuming LE has been or will be knocking on Parret's door. … Having said that BOTH Lori and Chad "told him what has been going on with the kids" makes him an important witness, in my opinion. Any thoughts on this by you all?

We never learned if Chad really said that to a reporter, because the report was so vague. There was a woman in Hawaii who met Chad at a store and asked him if HIS kids were OK, which he confirmed. This encounter was reported several times and it's possible that it was taken to mean Lori's kids. As for CP, I also doubt Chad told him directly that the children were alive or safe. It's possible that he claimed that they were with relatives and CP accepted it without question or knowing details.

 

[Leney]

Still patiently awaiting further charges.

I suspect desertion or abandonment will be the least of their worries.

Some cryptic tweets from Dateline's Keith Morrison.

"In this as in most things..patience is a virtue."

Keith Morrison on Twitter

"Oh they’ve been quietly very busy the whole time."

Keith Morrison on Twitter

 

[tresir2012]

Great stuff. Thanks for the details on the additional family and "cult" members and having been searched. Curious why LVD's other siblings are so quiet considering the dire circumstances. If they are so estranged, some clues as to why might fill in some blanks.

Other than the 1.5 hr drive to Yellowstone I have not read of any travel outside of Rexburg until the children are both missing. Is that correct?

As well as YNP Alex had driven from Rexburg to Az a couple of times, possibly around 2nd Oct in CV's jeep then again to move MBP from Az to Rexburg, then from Rexburg to Las Vegas with MBP for their weddings at the end of November.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

That doesn't mean anything. Many divorced women choose to go back to using their maiden name. And married woman can also choose to not change their name at all. MOO.

oh i know that... I just think this could have been a highfalutin fling that went bad, and was covered up as a marriage... Just sayin that it is not outside of possibilities, especially since her other marriages are trackable by filed docs.

 

[AZlawyer]

Well I can try, but I'm not a lawyer - AZlawyer, Mormon Attorney please help!

This summarizes the charges Lori faces and which Statute they fall under:

1 Desertion and Nonsupport of Dependent Child Under 18 YOA I18-401(1) Felony 09/23/2019
2 Desertion and Nonsupport of Dependent Child Under 18 YOA I18-401(1) Felony 09/08/2019
3 Arrests & Seizures-Resisting or Obstructing Officers I18-705 Misdemeanor 11/26/2019
4 Criminal Solicitation to Commit a Crime I18-2001 {M} Misdemeanor 11/26/2019
5 Contempt of Court-Criminal-Willful disobedience or court process or order 18-1801(4) Misdemeanor 01/30/2020

There are two parts of the code being referenced:

This first part is found in Title 16 - Juvenile Code (which appears to be what the defense attorney was referencing during the bail reduction request) it defines abandonment. However, I'm not sure this definition will hold much water as she is being charged under Title 18 and this definition is for purposes of Chapter 16. Now, I'm in way over my head.....but....MOO I think it was a red herring on the part of the defense atty.

Section 16-1602 – Idaho State Legislature

TITLE 16
JUVENILE PROCEEDINGS
CHAPTER 16
CHILD PROTECTIVE ACT
16-1602. DEFINITIONS. For purposes of this chapter:

(2) "Abandoned" means the failure of the parent to maintain a normal parental relationship with his child including, but not limited to, reasonable support or regular personal contact. Failure to maintain this relationship without just cause for a period of one (1) year shall constitute prima facie evidence of abandonment.


Here is the statute on desertion.....notice this is in Title 18 Crimes and Punishment Ch4 Abandonment OR Nonsupport of wife or children. I could not find a definition for abandonment in this chapter. She is being charged under section 18-401 which talks about desertion with the intent to abandon.
Title 18 – Idaho State Legislature


TITLE 18
CRIMES AND PUNISHMENTS
CHAPTER 4
ABANDONMENT OR NONSUPPORT OF WIFE OR CHILDREN
18-401. DESERTION AND NONSUPPORT OF CHILDREN OR SPOUSE. Every person who:
(1) Having any child under the age of eighteen (18) years dependent upon him or her for care, education or support, deserts such child in any manner whatever, with intent to abandon it;
(2) Willfully omits, without lawful excuse, to furnish necessary food, clothing, shelter, or medical attendance for his or her child or children, or ward or wards; provided however, that the practice of a parent or guardian who chooses for his child treatment by prayer or spiritual means alone shall not for that reason alone be construed to be a violation of the duty of care to such child;

Shall be guilty of a felony and shall be punishable by a fine of not more than five hundred dollars ($500), or by imprisonment for not to exceed fourteen (14) years, or both.

Hope this makes a little sense, and the real lawyers can set us straight!

The defense lawyer’s mention of “no abandonment until a full year passes” was (1) irrelevant because, as you have figured out, she was talking about the standard under the statute for losing parental rights, not the standard under the criminal statute and (2) wrong even under the parental rights statute—a year of no contact or support of a child is PRESUMED to establish abandonment, but it can be proved other ways as well. For example, leaving your newborn baby in a dumpster would be abandonment; no need to wait a year to see if you stop by the dumpster to provide support.