Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by Patch Tuesday, Dec 20, 2019.
I do too and I don't even cuss . . . schadenf**de!
Ha (I lied - I do cuss!)
Were the kids buried in the yard while Tammy was still alive and living in the house?
Yes! You're hitting on the most interesting psychological aspects of this! If we subtract the murders, the rest of this is like virtually every other mid-life-crisis-affair. An insecure, schlubby nerd meets a "hot" yet equally insecure counterpart, they decide that the other person is their soul-mate that fixes all their problems (magically), and they decide to leave their unappreciated spouses behind. The power of pitocin! But in the vast majority of the rest of those stories, financial and emotional ruin are the only consequences. Not murder and mayhem. So what's the extra ingredient here, that led to the murder and mayhem? I think I have read (somebody please correct me if I'm wrong) that her friends have suggested that Lori was showing signs of a major behavioral changes even before she met Chad. Or did her change in behavior line up with when she met Chad?
I think Lori had a psychotic break not long before she met Chad. Or maybe when she met him, maybe even as a result(?) of meeting him. I think Chad's a fantasist and a liar who tells stories to make himself feel bigger and more important. Writing is an obvious outlet for that, but imagine the power you feel when you can find people who will see you and treat you as their prophet in real life!? In Lori, he found someone suggestible who would hang on his every word, have sex with him, and help weaponize his fantasies into action. She was his True Believer. She not only believed everything he said, but was willing to act on it, either directly, or through her brother Alex as a proxy, to violent ends if needed.
Everything we've heard from Melanie Gibb suggests that Lori really believed all the bulls**t that CD was spinning. Her irritatingly smug demeanor in court and elsewhere has always telegraphed "you're all full of crap, because you don't know what I know". Not so much a criminal who thinks they've gotten away with something we can never figure out, but more like "I am not guilty of anything, I have done the right thing, and you can't comprehend that because you are not a Translated Being(tm)".
On the other hand, CD is not so smug. Neither his photos nor his on-camera demeanor suggest that to me. He has always known he was making all this **** up, and that was all OK, right up until the point that Lori/Alex killed Charles. He had purpose-built a narrative to drive her away from her husband and her children... the whole 'zombie' and 'light/dark' scale, his card game rating system including the sexual prowess of Translated Beings (all totally self-serving). The only thing that's not clear to me is whether he knowingly incited her to kill Charles or not. Everything beyond that--to Chad-- was damage control. Tylee, JJ, and Tammy (and maybe Alex) were all big risks and knew too much. They all knew something and they all stood in the way.They had to go. I wonder if Lori even knew that he had killed the kids? Did she believe he really teleported them to the other side of the veil?
What do you all think? Was Lori the mastermind, or did she fall under Chad's spell and things went out of control?
What in the world?? Soliciting and/or giving praise for his grave digging skills right now???
IMO the catalyst was JJ and the motive was simply money and revenge.
I think that Lori became extremely resentful of caring for JJ and the resentment changed her feelings for Tylee too. And she was very unhappy about having to leave HI. When Tylee started receiving benefits in AZ in 2016, Lori felt she was entitled to the $, but as Tylee got older maybe she began demanding the money. Lori was furious about not getting Charles’ insurance $, and because Tylee was JJ’s protector she was aligned against Lori (in Lori’s eyes). IMO Lori wanted to make Kay suffer so badly she would stop at nothing.
Chad believed he was superior even to his own family, and he seemed to have an increasing need for others to think him special (a prophet) but he had no money to influence people. When they met, they saw in each other a way to get what they wanted and they glossed it over with religion which allowed them to still feel superior while doing terrible things.
If this seems too obvious, consider that they are both also incredibly stupid. For example, I’m convinced that they thought they were outside US jurisdiction when they went to Hawaii.
In some circles, this isn't exactly a fringe belief. I know some who definitely believe this way--that the "end of the world" (AKA the second coming of Christ) is imminent.
I looked up smothering and foam was not a common symptom. But yes it seems that poisoning can cause it. Also carbon monoxide poisoning. Whatever causes pulmonary edema. I do not have science background...just googling
I hope you feel better soon! I was very sick in Jan. before anyone was really testing for Covid... The Dr put me on antibiotic's and diagnosed it as acute Bronchitis.... But it was really awful, and my mom ended up catching it as well.... I do wonder if it was actually Covid (I still haven't been tested) But both mom and I are in the "high risk" group and we made it through, so maybe it wasn't (honestly not sure I would be alive if it was). It took a loooooong time for the cough and crappy feeling to go away, maybe 5 wks on the cough!
Anyway, hope you start feeling better very soon, and have enough food/ TP! Fur babies are the BEST medicine!! This is something I never would have imagined happening in my lifetime... Okay getting back on topic now!
Here’s a link to that Crime Stories podcast with Nate Eaton and Ellen Killoran.
Listen to the Crime Stories with Nancy Grace Episode - Bonus: ‘Cult Mom’ Lori Vallow’s missing children remains found? Neighbors say bonfires at husbands property on iHeartRadio | iHeartRadio
I don’t think we ever found out exactly what these strange things were either @Michael0808. If you find something please let us know. Hope you are feeling better today! MOO
IDK. I mean with Jones you have the emergent paranoia and jealousy, the logistics of managing a faraway colony once the funding streams are cut off, increasing newspaper editorials and defector accusations of serious abuse, government inspections interpreted as threats, his own increasing physical difficulties and drug dependence, etc. The wheels were coming off, and he was a delusional control freak without a shred of empathy. But I think he was a believer, at least early on, and the apocalyptic turn has a noticeable curve. And he was a well-known preacher in a recognizable religious stream with some hefty backers -- again, initially at least. There's a track record, a corpus of thinking, a history of beliefs, however dangerous and strange they became.
CD seems like a petty criminal, by comparison -- and I'm not really talking about the crimes. I mean, who is he, really? Small-town sexton, fringe publisher, one of how many doomsday visionaries without even his own visions to sustain him, borrowing (possibly) someone else's NDE to validate himself? Maybe he believed his own stuff, or maybe he viewed himself as a disruptor, chafing under the life he found himself in, and what began as a seduction became something he couldn't stop without losing the object of his lust/obsession.
If he thinks that his visioning/preaching/propheseying/whatevs is what won him his "beauty queen," then maybe he can't get off that train without losing her. They reinforce and feed each other, and within a year there are 3,4,5 bodies and it's over.
IDK. I think he was a believer, of a kind, but mostly I think he believed in his own potential worth/ greatness and finally saw a way to make others believe it too.
I am dying! Vote for Post of the Day (if we still have that here)
Thank you!! I knew I could count on some of you super sleuths to get it done!
To add to this:
Ethylene glycol is the ingredient that makes antifreeze tasty. Though colorless and odorless, the syrupy alcohol derivative—which is excellent at lowering the freezing points of vital engine fluids—has a sweet taste that jibes well with soda, juice, and other sugary beverages. As many concerned pet owners and parents are well aware, dogs, cats, and kids are prone to lap up puddles of antifreeze left on garage floors. Every year, 90,000 animals and 4,000 children ingest the toxic liquid; if not treated immediately, the consequences of the poisoning can include renal or cardiovascular failure, brain damage, and death.
Why is antifreeze so delicious?
She tried to SELL it and got caught.
pretty sure they also spray this stuff on the wings of planes to de-ice them in cold conditions
Yes. I also need a frozen job in which all time-sensitive tasks are already finished, and a perhaps a frozen house that is already sorted for when the fam get home. Then I could really devote myself to here.
Good point on remembering MP saying the kids loved her and not to screw it up. Same kind of lie.
It really hurts my heart seeing the Found Deceased on this thread now. I knew it was coming but it's still painful.