Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom arrested* #43

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nhmemorymaker

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I was always a bit afraid to bump it because she wasn’t verified, take that as you may, I was surprised the post was allowed to stay. But it did and I’m glad. And it was, what felt like at the time, heartfelt information, that ironically differed 180 from what @echoecho222 shared. Along with the timeline, a good refresher is the first couple threads in this case.
Great great advice.... I have never read the initial threads...
 

nhmemorymaker

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I was always a bit afraid to bump it because she wasn’t verified, take that as you may, I was surprised the post was allowed to stay. But it did and I’m glad. And it was, what felt like at the time, heartfelt information, that ironically differed 180 from what @echoecho222 shared. Along with the timeline, a good refresher is the first couple threads in this case.

But I knew I had read this long ago.... but reading it again was just..just amazing.
 

jjenny

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Respectfully I get what you are saying and I mostly agree with you, but it isn't abnormal or emotional or psychological abuse to take a teenagers phone for longer than a couple of days or weeks. I have friends who still have landlines and do not allow their teenagers cell phones. There is still a school of thought that cell phones are detrimental to teens and children. Pediatricians mostly support this. That said, LVD wasn't doing it for those reasons. She was doing it for control. There is a difference, but it is an important difference to make, rather than just lumping everyone in with this crazy.
If she told Summer in September she confiscated Tylee's phone-Tylee was dead on September 9th. I think claim that Tylee had no phone was to explain why Tylee stopped communicating with Summer. So I don't think she was even doing it for control, she was making the claim to explain absence of communication from Tylee with her aunt and grandma on Lori's side.
 

Queasy Gumshoe

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I know!! That is the article I was referring to and laughing about ... I just figure, sometimes "pictures" can say a lot more than words... I have sent the article to a few friends who I am trying to "bait" back into all our fun here...

sometimes I just don't get why others are not as curious as me. ha ha . My friends say "obsessed", I say curious....
Same here! I am a fiction writer and this story is fascinating! The ego of these people are mind blowing! It’s a novel as already, I feel like I have been reading it since December and it just gets crazier and crazier.
 

lacegrl130

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Robotic. I can’t articulate it any better.
Almost like she already knew based on her question to Alex about what happened to JJ and his response “you don’t want to know “ this was a very close confession that she either knew or was pretty sure she knew what happened.
This seems pretty plausible. Also, she brought her posse with her. She moved to town with 2 kids, a brother and a niece. She had her bestie and her boyfriend come to town. She didn't exactly slink in. jmo
No. He was laying out the breadcrumbs. He was preparing for Tammy to die for a long time. Always telling people about it. No. He was committed to the plan. He made those kids zombies with his dark/light spectrum. I agree with all the benefits Lori provided for him emotionally and sexually. But he was 100 percent up to his fetlocks in all of this.
 

kyrarose

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Respectfully I get what you are saying and I mostly agree with you, but it isn't abnormal or emotional or psychological abuse to take a teenagers phone for longer than a couple of days or weeks. I have friends who still have landlines and do not allow their teenagers cell phones. There is still a school of thought that cell phones are detrimental to teens and children. Pediatricians mostly support this. That said, LVD wasn't doing it for those reasons. She was doing it for control. There is a difference, but it is an important difference to make, rather than just lumping everyone in with this crazy.

Thanks for posting this. You got to it before I did. Having a phone is not a right.
 

Queasy Gumshoe

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I know!! That is the article I was referring to and laughing about ... I just figure, sometimes "pictures" can say a lot more than words... I have sent the article to a few friends who I am trying to "bait" back into all our fun here...

sometimes I just don't get why others are not as curious as me. ha ha . My friends say "obsessed", I say curious....
Same here! I am a fiction writer and this story is fascinating! The ego of these people are mind blowing! It’s a novel as already, I feel like I have been reading it since December and it just gets crazier and crazier.
 

QuietStrength

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I mean that quite literally. LVD and MG and MPB are willing to take orders and not think. Everything they say, including MG's new theological takes on things, are from men. Men who are god's righteous. This is what makes you a good woman. You'll find this in pretty much most hyper religious groups but these men value it far more than most others. As you can see they promote those women to everyone else, to draw other men like them. Women who do are rewarded with attentiveness, attention and special place, promoted, cossetted and head patted.

To the men it is "see, we have what you want! Look at these women who submit to anything you tell them to and whose every thought is yours" and to the women like these they will be the best kept of the women (we won't live in tents).

She's perfect for them. So is Lori. Wouldn't it be great to be their perfect women? It is a perfect world.

Yes!

This seems to follow reliably with what I've read regarding strongly patriarchal systems and religions.

Because they believe men are able to be "closer to God" (yeah, I dunno why, but just roll with the logic/lack thereof) they are bestowed with the "spiritual responsibility" of the household (which means you'd better choose a smart one to marry, I guess? Especially with the stigma of divorce. Goooood luck with that).

In researching a fiction writing project about addiction last year, I stumbled across a religion-based book on Scribd about what to do if your husband was addicted to *advertiser censored*.

It didn't involve a suitcase or a lawyer.

What it did recommend was so jaw-dropping I could not quit reading.

The book kept reiterating the woman's subservient position in the home and the necessity for her to (somehow) still "obey" Mr. BusyHandsHusband, despite the fact he was rather distracted from his "leadership role" in the family.

My takeaway was that it would be "selfish" for the woman to pack up her kids and get away, no matter how egregious the addiction. Instead, her job was to "pray more" (I'm guessing she already was?) until Mr. BusyHandsHusband "came back to God."

No mention of whether she was allowed to play a lot of Farmville while she waited it out (I don't condone physical violence, usually, but CD deserves a hard backhand on his chastising TD for playing a computer game whilst he was out being the *advertiser censored* of the walk. Also, just stupid for him to do that. If you're gonna have an affair, one of the BEST things you could have is a slightly checked-out spouse playing a game for hours on end where she's building the virtual life she thought she might get by marrying your sorry, cheating *advertiser censored*.)

Also, the wife of the addicted was NOT to try to take leadership of the family, financially/spiritual leadership-wise, but instead bring in their religious leader (a man) to "straighten out" the husband and "help him find his way back." If that didn't work, they would work their way up the totem pole of male leaders until hubby found someone he'd listen to when they told him to stop.

But ideally, no one went outside the system for secular resources (therapist, addiction treatment, etc) - keep it all under wraps as best as possible, because with an all-powerful God, praying could make anything happen (which reminds me of the lifeboat parable, except with the addicted God says "You drove by the addiction treatment every day! Did you not see the TV special on dopamine and addictions?! I put options in your path!").

Thinking this advice had to be a fluke of the self-publisbed and poorly edited, I researched more of this, including an advice site run by like-minded people, and no, it's not a fluke!

These gender roles are concrete - woman subservient, absolute power vested in the husband and other men.

Oh, and if women go astray, they were "misbehaving" (y'know, like children) while men were merely "led astray by Satan" (momentarily tempted).

I see a lot of that in this whole story.

TD patiently waiting out this latest fancy of CD, trying to be the good, supportive wife.

MG basically waiting around to be told what to do, keeping the situation within the ranks, excusing behavior that conflicts with beliefs as "Satan" influenced behavior.

LVD will probably be used as an example of what happens when "women try to get above their place" in this centuries old order. I can just hear the BS, "You see? She tried to take leadership where she was not qualified, and look what happened! Now go make me a sammich and get these floors cleaned, woman!"

For MG to be evil, she would have to be capable of intent, and I can't see that she has an iota of intent other than to wait around for her head pat from whomever is in charge. Doesn't excuse her, but seems consistent what I learned about some patriarchal systems.

Also the smiling (so disturbing!) indicates a huge disconnect. Yes, this stuff is happening, but not "to her" because there's no "her" there to impact.

MOO
 

nhmemorymaker

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Respectfully I get what you are saying and I mostly agree with you, but it isn't abnormal or emotional or psychological abuse to take a teenagers phone for longer than a couple of days or weeks. I have friends who still have landlines and do not allow their teenagers cell phones. There is still a school of thought that cell phones are detrimental to teens and children. Pediatricians mostly support this. That said, LVD wasn't doing it for those reasons. She was doing it for control. There is a difference, but it is an important difference to make, rather than just lumping everyone in with this crazy.
But in regards to Lori's parenting...it is control by constantly changing the rules and the routines, and geographic locations.

I think this diabolical parenting is what contributed to Tylee's aloneness, sleeping a lot etc. This was a very smart girl who was denied of any life and growth.

Reminds me of why I still feel she never got the GED either. No way for that kind of work and planning with this constantly moving household. When Lori, Melanie, and Tylee were at the police station and at one point Lori mentioned Tylee had her GED (I think in reference to why she was not in school). Tylee just made a pretty significant statement... she said "YEAH".

I always feel that that was verifying the lie.

I hope the defense does a really big over-the-top presentation of just how Lori screwed, hated, demoralized, and killed this young woman.
 
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natsound

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MG on Dateline, regarding Charles' shooting death: "I'm thinking he's gonna pass away like they would have a prayer, maybe his spirit would leave and his body would just die, you know if it was really true that he was a zombie. And yeah. I didn't see that coming."

What's so hard for me to understand for people who believe some of these LDS teachings is, if you've never seen that happen before (prayer, spirit leaves body, death), why would you count on it to happen?

We typically base our expectations on past experience. Who has ever seen a healthy, robust person simply die after a prayer? Why would she honestly expect that to happen in Charles' case?
 

gumchew

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That's what I think too. If Chad were to get a divorce, he'd have to divide property between himself and Tammy. Whereas if Tammy died (of natural causes, of course), all the property stayed with Chad and Chad would get a nice chunk of life insurance on top.

That's exactly it. He wanted to end his marriage with his finances, his reputation, and his other relationships intact, and with seed money to move on immediately to his next season of life. To him, there was only one conceivable way that could happen: Tammy had to die. He was thinking about this even before he became involved with Lori. JMO
 

nhmemorymaker

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Yes!

This seems to follow reliably with what I've read regarding strongly patriarchal systems and religions.

Because they believe men are able to be "closer to God" (yeah, I dunno why, but just roll with the logic/lack thereof) they are bestowed with the "spiritual responsibility" of the household (which means you'd better choose a smart one to marry, I guess? Especially with the stigma of divorce. Goooood luck with that).

In researching a fiction writing project about addiction last year, I stumbled across a religion-based book on Scribd about what to do if your husband was addicted to *advertiser censored*.

It didn't involve a suitcase or a lawyer.

What it did recommend was so jaw-dropping I could not quit reading.

The book kept reiterating the woman's subservient position in the home and the necessity for her to (somehow) still "obey" Mr. BusyHandsHusband, despite the fact he was rather distracted from his "leadership role" in the family.

My takeaway was that it would be "selfish" for the woman to pack up her kids and get away, no matter how egregious the addiction. Instead, her job was to "pray more" (I'm guessing she already was?) until Mr. BusyHandsHusband "came back to God."

No mention of whether she was allowed to play a lot of Farmville while she waited it out (I don't condone physical violence, usually, but CD deserves a hard backhand on his chastising TD for playing a computer game whilst he was out being the *advertiser censored* of the walk. Also, just stupid for him to do that. If you're gonna have an affair, one of the BEST things you could have is a slightly checked-out spouse playing a game for hours on end where she's building the virtual life she thought she might get by marrying your sorry, cheating *advertiser censored*.)

Also, the wife of the addicted was NOT to try to take leadership of the family, financially/spiritual leadership-wise, but instead bring in their religious leader (a man) to "straighten out" the husband and "help him find his way back." If that didn't work, they would work their way up the totem pole of male leaders until hubby found someone he'd listen to when they told him to stop.

But ideally, no one went outside the system for secular resources (therapist, addiction treatment, etc) - keep it all under wraps as best as possible, because with an all-powerful God, praying could make anything happen (which reminds me of the lifeboat parable, except with the addicted God says "You drove by the addiction treatment every day! Did you not see the TV special on dopamine and addictions?! I put options in your path!").

Thinking this advice had to be a fluke of the self-publisbed and poorly edited, I researched more of this, including an advice site run by like-minded people, and no, it's not a fluke!

These gender roles are concrete - woman subservient, absolute power vested in the husband and other men.

Oh, and if women go astray, they were "misbehaving" (y'know, like children) while men were merely "led astray by Satan" (momentarily tempted).

I see a lot of that in this whole story.

TD patiently waiting out this latest fancy of CD, trying to be the good, supportive wife.

MG basically waiting around to be told what to do, keeping the situation within the ranks, excusing behavior that conflicts with beliefs as "Satan" influenced behavior.

LVD will probably be used as an example of what happens when "women try to get above their place" in this centuries old order. I can just hear the BS, "You see? She tried to take leadership where she was not qualified, and look what happened! Now go make me a sammich and get these floors cleaned, woman!"

For MG to be evil, she would have to be capable of intent, and I can't see that she has an iota of intent other than to wait around for her head pat from whomever is in charge. Doesn't excuse her, but seems consistent what I learned about some patriarchal systems.

Also the smiling (so disturbing!) indicates a huge disconnect. Yes, this stuff is happening, but not "to her" because there's no "her" there to impact.

MOO
Loud strength here, QuietStrength. And lets add one more person to MG's mentoring. David Warwick (who is now clearly in msm print) has just as defying "stuff out there" as Chad has. I have a "guess" of even some competition out there with Chad and the other end-of-life men.

And where did MG go for 11 days to figure out what to do. She went to "that good friend who she talked to until am". I don't think he is a huge player (yet), but he fits this patriarchal role for our Melanie.
 

Spartygirl

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Did they really need 60 burner phones? MG previously mentioned that Lori had 3 phones and in January at a police station Lori mentioned using her mother's old phone after Charles had taken her purse. Was Alex still using his own phone during children's murders? Why would they need 30 email addresses? Was all this just to hide communication between Lori and Chad? What other operation was going on?
While we suspected that there were more than 7 others, per EIN report, it is now pretty obvious, IMO that there were indeed a lot more involved in this crazy group.
60 Burner phones and 30 email addresses ??
They sure were trying to hide things and conversations. SHEESH
 

RickshawFan

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MOO an odd use of language is the "debris limbs" possibly it is colloquial, but MOO the words "branches, cuttings, trimmings, old brush, pruning" are the normal words.
We discussed this upthread.
Idea 1: Freudian slip. He intended to talk about tree branches, but his mind blipped to "limbs" because he was thinking about a body.
Idea 2: Evil and deliberate conflation, turning a murdered child into nothing of value and then flaunting it. [Or something like that]
 

Sachi

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That's exactly it. He wanted to end his marriage with his finances, his reputation, and his other relationships intact, and with seed money to move on immediately to his next season of life. To him, there was only one conceivable way that could happen: Tammy had to die. He was thinking about this even before he became involved with Lori. JMO
Agree
 
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