ID - Sage Aragon, 11, frozen to death, Blaine County, 25 Dec 2008

[Bobbisangel]

The dad did make a horrible decision and it is hard to understand what in the world he was thinking. The weather was 32 degrees above and 5 degrees below 0. I just don't understand why he let them go in the first place and then why he didn't head down the road to pick them up after he got his truck out of the snowdrift. The article I read said the snow was up to their knees.
The girl just had PJ bottoms on her legs!

We don't know if this father was drinking or drugging or if he just made a very poor decision. Just because he is American Indian don't just assume that he must have been drunk or drinking.

 

[believe09]

The dad looks to be American Indian. Both my children have grown up around them and I have worked with them in the school district I work for. It seems a lot of times these people make bad judgements, more than they should. I believe it's ignorance, not being educated, alcohol is a factor on the reservation here. What a horrible tragedy!

As another poster has already said, the father in this case made the worst judgment call you could make in a situation like this as a parent or another human being. I doubt that it can be tied with being a possible Native American however.

I am far more intrigued by his decision to send those lovelies off into the swirling snow 10 miles from their destination which was a visitation, correct? What was so compelling about this visitation that these children needed to march off in their pajamas and boots? Why were they not dressed properly to begin with?

Imagine the terror of those moments when brother and sister parted ways and it all fell apart for them individually. I think the charges being leveled are more than appropriate. JMO.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Ridiculous! The adults should be charged for allowing this to happen and should get the maximum penalties. I don't care what he was thinking, drinking, or his level of education...this was neglect of those children which resulted in the death of one and who knows the condition of the other (frostbite etc.).

 

[Ladyslipper]

I apoligize if I offended anyone, I wasn't implying they were low class people. My experience with students on the reservation here is that they are left to fend for themselves many times. I've also seen many instances of neglect. It just breaks my heart that these two children were left out in sub zero temps and one of them is now dead.

 

[mysteriew]

I couldn't send my kids off to walk 10 miles alone in good weather, let alone in cold snowy weather. Even if they were dressed appropriately.

If they had stayed in the car it would have been cold. But they would have been out of the wind and the car would have retained part of their body heat.

And to make matters worse, after getting the car fixed about 10:30-11 am they go somewhere else and don't even bother to check on the kids until 1-2 pm. And then just to compound things, they don't call rescue, they drive back to look for them- and turn back when the weather got too bad! After getting the car fixed at 10:30-11 am, no one called rescue until 7 pm!

 

[Bobbisangel]

Did he really think those two young kids could walk 10 miles in snow up to their knees??? What was he thinking! Even if they thought they wanted to walk that far he is the father and the one responsible for them he sure didn't have to go along with it if that was the case.

I'll never understand why him and his buddy didn't take off after the kids once they got the truck out of the snowdrift. He had to have known that they couldn't have gone 10 miles in the time it took him to get the truck back on the road. Just plain irresponsible.

Maybe the boy would be better off with his mom instead of going back to live with his dad but then who knows why the dad got custody of them in the first place or maybe she just gave them to him.

 

[lizzybeth]

I apoligize if I offended anyone, I wasn't implying they were low class people. My experience with students on the reservation here is that they are left to fend for themselves many times. I've also seen many instances of neglect. It just breaks my heart that these two children were left out in sub zero temps and one of them is now dead.

Ladyslipper, when I first read the article and especially after seeing that the boy's name was Bear I thought they may have been Native American. I also thought that since there's such a problem with alcoholism with the people that live on reservations if the father had been intoxicated when he made the decision to tell them to walk home.

I was afraid to post it because I didn't want to seem like I was stereotyping or being racist.

I understand what you meant.

 

[twinkiesmom]

I couldn't send my kids off to walk 10 miles alone in good weather, let alone in cold snowy weather. Even if they were dressed appropriately.

If they had stayed in the car it would have been cold. But they would have been out of the wind and the car would have retained part of their body heat.

And to make matters worse, after getting the car fixed about 10:30-11 am they go somewhere else and don't even bother to check on the kids until 1-2 pm. And then just to compound things, they don't call rescue, they drive back to look for them- and turn back when the weather got too bad! After getting the car fixed at 10:30-11 am, no one called rescue until 7 pm!

The mom called at 1-2 pm, and the cops weren't notified for 5-6 hours later....Wonder if the mom knew they were out in the cold or if there was a cover story...If she knew, she has some moral responsibility for not notifying police right away.

 

[Annie]

He should serve some time in a walk in cooler. There is no excuse for what he did.

 

[shannahg]

In my opinion, the posters who speak of common occurrences among the reservations they have been exposed to, ie...alcohol, lack of education, leaving children to fend for themselves are simply stating what problems they've witnessed of the particular area. I don't think that means she is implying that these were factors in this case, just that it is a common lifestyle, a definite issue to consider when investigating. I appreciate any general information that is given and take it as just that - general information, not necessarily applicable but definitely a possibility (sadly, I would even venture to say a probability in this incident).
People are so quick to be "politically correct" and avoid saying anything wrong due to the impending wrath of society in general. I've never been one of those people who immediately assume (ex: 2 kids in a fight) "Not MY kid, I am sure YOUR child started it, my 'Betsy' would NEVER do that." Some call it steretyping but I definitely look at statistics FIRST in a case and then take it from there. Example, the Jennings serial killing case - 'most' serial killers are white males. I would START there but also consider other groups, obviously. If I read about a drive-by shooting in North Baton Rouge, 'most' of those are statistically committed by black males....a baby found in a dumpster, 'most' cases involve a mother who didn't want the child. Life on the reservation: 'most' cases involving LE probably involved families who were of the situation stated above. Am I stereotyping? To an exent, but only as an initial basis to start discounting these scenarios first before moving on to the next. Would I consider every avenue as a basis for investigating, ABSOLUTELY (no KC pun intended). Despite the tattoos, the scraggly appearance, fingers full of rings, these people could be Pillars of the Society. I think that most websleuths members keep a very open but educated mind about probabilities as well as possibilities. Sorry to ramble on so - I guess it just bothers me when people immediately assume that a poster who is trying to toss ideas out there worthy of exploring could likely end up crucified by another who feels that it isn't "politically correct" to bring up certain issues. "Bring em up baby!!!!!!" That's what we're here for...lets explore the cases, get the facts and ELIMINATE the non-facts in a methodical yet intelligent manner. I think assuming that dad just left church and was heading out to deliver food to the homeless is probably NOT the direction to start in. I say, do the alcohol and drug test FIRST! JMO MOO!!!!! :blowkiss:

 

[believe09]

Then we can assume that all Caucasian males will get drunk and beat their wives on super-bowl Sunday because the majority of those who do are.

What if the father in this case was drunk? I mean, clearly something was impeding his judgment. Does that add to the "ah-ha" factor because we can point to a stereotype-ie Native Americans on reservations drink and make poor judgments. This father may be Native American, may live on a reservation and there fore it was likely that he was drunk and making poor decisions.

Perhaps rather than it being a function of a combination of Native blood and alcohol, it is a function of POOR DECISION MAKING. Beyond that, the man is being charged with murder, so there is an element of intent here that we are not discussing.

What was his relationship with the children and their bio mother? Was it all harmonious? Or did he decide that he didn't want to drive the kids to see her anyway, and beyond that he could have cared less what happened to the children once he forced them to leave....To me, this is where the story is. JMO.

 

[twinkiesmom]

Dad's got a rap sheet for drugs...latest conviction in Feb....see end of article:
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hb-VFoUeYKIJdSPEqW5Jrm5Jc0owD95DJDUO0

 

[mae]

And to make matters worse, after getting the car fixed about 10:30-11 am they go somewhere else and don't even bother to check on the kids until 1-2 pm. And then just to compound things, they don't call rescue, they drive back to look for them- and turn back when the weather got too bad! After getting the car fixed at 10:30-11 am, no one called rescue until 7 pm!

This is what baffles me. In 4-5 hours, the kids had not made it home, no one had picked them up and given them a ride, they had not called. And the men went back to look for them themselves rather than call the authorities who might have helped them find the kids a lot sooner. TEN hours had lapsed from the time he dropped them off before they notified authorities. That's negligent. This could have had a different ending if they had notified them 5 hours earlier when they realized the kids were still out there. No common sense was ever used.

I hear you on the fending for yourself thing. It's very common in my neighborhood on a cultural level for kids to have a great deal of responsibility at a young age. But the fact that they were not dressed remotely appropriately for this weather makes it more than giving them a lot of responsibility. In my hood, you prepare a child before giving them responsibility. That poor child was wearing thin pajama pants.

Ten miles in the snow is hard work, conditions like that are even harder.

"There's no way that he could have known what was going to happen," Quintana told the Times-News.

Seriously? Deep snow, snowfall, freezing and below zero temperatures, illy dressed for the weather, 10 miles, looks like poor visibility. How does any of that make someone think "oh, gee, sure two pre-teen kids will be able to make it! no problem." In any world, how could this been a smart or logical or common sense based move? What other possible outcomes? Even the boy, who was found, never made it, had hypothermia and was affected. What a tragic situation.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hb-VFoUeYKIJdSPEqW5Jrm5Jc0owD95DJDUO0

 

[Ladyslipper]

I'm really sorry I ever posted anything. My point in all this was that we as a society need to start educating people better, especially those where resources are limited.

There is NO excuse for what this man did and he needs to be punished for it. I work with special needs students and believe me more than 90 percent of the time, it's the caucasian families I deal with and have to call CPS on.

 

[SheWhoMustNotBeNamed]

Town mourns girl who died after miles in snow

Townspeople and relatives crammed into a church Wednesday to mourn 11-year-old Sage Aragon, who died while trying to trudge through 10 miles of snow on Christmas Day to reach her mother.

At the service, a relative asked for forgiveness for Sage’s father, charged in her death and the injury of her brother.

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2009/jan/01/town-mourns-girl-who-died-after-miles-in-snow/

 

[amethyst]

I have run across lots of ignorant people in my life. But even ignorant people know to stay out of the cold and have basic concern for the welfare of their family. I don't see that here. This has to be either intentional neglect or acting under the influence which in my book are chargeable offenses. Throw the book at him. What a tragic loss of a precious life.

 

[OrdinaryLife]

I'm really sorry I ever posted anything. My point in all this was that we as a society need to start educating people better, especially those where resources are limited.

There is NO excuse for what this man did and he needs to be punished for it. I work with special needs students and believe me more than 90 percent of the time, it's the caucasian families I deal with and have to call CPS on.

Ladyslipper, I get what you meant. Please, don't stop posting. Don't let any post intimidate you. :blowkiss:

 

[wallflower67]

Then we can assume that all Caucasian males will get drunk and beat their wives on super-bowl Sunday because the majority of those who do are.

.

I snipped your post because I agreed with most of it. The whole story is very important.

I just wanted to point out that you can't assume all white males will beat up their wives because the majority of those who do are white males.

It doesn't go both directions.

I work in an ER, so I see shootings all the time. The victims and the perps are usually African American males. But the majority of the African American males who come to the ER just have strep-throat, or are having heart attacks, or need stiches....just like all the other patients we see.

 

[pooky169]

I just hope whomever gets the surviving brother will make sure he loved and well taken care of. I think the father is a sorry there is no way I would have let my kids do that no matter what age or what weather conditions there was.
He used very poor judgement and I hope he gets what he deserves.

 

[believe09]

I snipped your post because I agreed with most of it. The whole story is very important.

I just wanted to point out that you can't assume all white males will beat up their wives because the majority of those who do are white males.

It doesn't go both directions.

I work in an ER, so I see shootings all the time. The victims and the perps are usually African American males. But the majority of the African American males who come to the ER just have strep-throat, or are having heart attacks, or need stiches....just like all the other patients we see.

I am sorry if I was not clear-I was being ironic. Of course you cannot make an assumption that all white males will batter simply because the majority of those who batter their wives on Super Bowl Sunday are white...You and I are saying the same thing I think. Yours without the irony.
:blowkiss:

The second degree murder charge does indicate that there was a deliberateness to the action-if we know for sure that he and his friend pushed the car out of the snow drift and went home without checking that the children were OK, then I believe he did not give a rat's *advertiser censored** what happened to them. Because even if he did not get the fact that the weather would kill them, they could have been hit by a plow, abducted by someone etc...his actions absolutely hit a standard of cruelty that floors me.