IDENTIFIED! Valerie Mack - Jane Doe #6/Manorville Jane Doe - remains located Nov 2000 & April 2011

bessie

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Jane Doe #6
Note: Victim #6 is not the mother of the toddler.
Namus UP #9680

Halsey Manor Road
Manorville
Suffolk County, NY

19 November, 2000

11:00 am, in Manorville, Suffolk County. On Nov. 19, 2000, three hunters walking in the woods about a half-mile west of Halsey Manor Road, north of the Long Island Expressway, discovered plastic trash bags containing human remains. Investigators believe she was placed there in Sept 2000.

They were later determined to be those of a female who died several weeks before. She was nude, her body was chopped into pieces and her head, hands and right foot were missing.

A forensic exam determined she was a brunette, white or Hispanic, no more than 5-foot-5 or 125 pounds, and between 35 and 40 years old." (NY Times)
Jones Beach State Park
Ocean Parkway
Gilgo Beach
Nassau County, NY

4 April 2011

"Her head, hands and right foot were recovered on April 4 on a stretch of a Long Island beach where nine sets of other human remains were found."

"She had a tattoo or marking on her right ankle." (ABC)

“'This woman would have been last seen alive in the late summer/fall of 2000,' said Dormer, who added the woman probably had some kind of tattoo or identifying mark on her right ankle since that part of her was cut off by her killer." (LI Press)
Namus UP #9680

Case No. 00-629549
Est. probable year of death - 2000

The decedent's torso was recovered in a wooded area of Manorville, NY on 11/19/00.

The decedent's head, hands and right foot were recovered in the Vicinity of Ocean Pkwy, Gilgo Beach, NY on 4/4/11.

  • Right and left nasal bones have been fractured and healed.
Rule Outs:
Sandra Sollie
Colleen Voitik McHugh

Local Contact:
Suffolk County Medical Examiner's Office
(631) 853-5555
Case #00-3946
Case Mgr: Stephen Jacobs
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future criminologist

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Since we have a thread for all of the other victims, UID'd or not, I am starting a new thread to speculate on who the 2nd female victim - the one originally found in Manorville in 2000, who was also found on Ocean Parkway - could be.

Here is a description of this victim from the NY Times (snipped):

On Nov. 19, 2000, three hunters walking in the woods about a half-mile west of Halsey Manor Road, north of the Long Island Expressway, discovered plastic trash bags containing human remains. They were later determined to be those of a female who died several weeks before. She was nude, her body was chopped into pieces and her head, hands and right foot were missing. A forensic exam determined she was a brunette, white or Hispanic, no more than 5-foot-5 or 125 pounds, and between 35 and 40 years old.

I will post my matches, just wanted to start the thread first.
 

Claudette

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IMO the perp is whoever was on Jessica's tattoo (can't recall the name).

Also, this UID matches the Atlantic City girls in appearance, age and size. May (most like) just be a coincidence because that appearance, age and size also the average here in the US.
 

bodhi93

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This one is a little younger than the age listed, but other things fit...
Link
 

bodhi93

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This one is a little younger than the age listed, but other things fit...
Link
 

dcgrumpy

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Maybe I'm wrong but I would think it wasn't someone who was reported missing from the area. They would have been able to check DNA from relatives.
 

future criminologist

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Maybe I'm wrong but I would think it wasn't someone who was reported missing from the area. They would have been able to check DNA from relatives.

In an ideal system, yes, but this doesn't necessarily always happen. It all depends on how the responding LE treated the case - DNA matching is not automatic, nor is obtaining dental records, and if it is, it's not always entered - it can be filed away in storage for cold cases, or lost. (I've been on the UID matching forum for a while and can tell you how often this is the case). I think anyone who works on UID matches can tell you how painstaking a process making a match can be.
 

dcgrumpy

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In an ideal system, yes, but this doesn't necessarily always happen. It all depends on how the responding LE treated the case - DNA matching is not automatic, nor is obtaining dental records, and if it is, it's not always entered - it can be filed away in storage for cold cases, or lost. (I've been on the UID matching forum for a while and can tell you how often this is the case). I think anyone who works on UID matches can tell you how painstaking a process making a match can be.

Yes but we know that they did do DNA testing on the other body found in the same area. It doesn't make sense to me that they would do it for one and not the other.
 

future criminologist

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Yes but we know that they did do DNA testing on the other body found in the same area. It doesn't make sense to me that they would do it for one and not the other.

I think you misunderstood me. Yes, the body found would be tested for DNA. That doesn't mean, however, that they have DNA from missing persons' to match it to, especially if it's a prostitute or someone who has not been seen by their family in person for a long time, or a transient. The family or contact person has to provide LE with a toothbrush, hairbrush, dental records, etc. to be tested. (There's a "guide" to missing persons written by an LE officer somewhere on this site that everyone should read, that was recently posted - describing the many very easy ways in which cases fall thru the cracks - LE doesn't keep in touch with families, LE depts misplace dental records and evidence, information is not entered accurately by the dispatcher doing the database entry, etc). And if the person is known to be a drifter to the families or to leave and come back, it may take months or even years for family members to report the person missing. Remember that the reason that they were able to match the other UID found there to Jessica Taylor was because she had been arrested in DC and was on LE's radar, so when the notice of a UID was sent to other law enforcement agencies from NY, the LE officer who dealt with her in DC recognized the tattoo on the UID - not because New York LE matched her thru DNA to one of their missing persons cases. That's why NAMUS came about - so ideally, as we've all said there should be at some point, so there's a national database of information and UIDs in one state can be matched to MPs in another state, etc. This system is still imperfect though - in that police depts are not mandated by law to enter their case info into this system and, if they do not have the economic resources, probably don't have a staff person assigned specifically to entering case info into NAMUS. That's why you might see a missing person profile on a state clearinghouse site, for example, but not in NAMUS; in NAMUS, but not on Charley Project or Doe Network, etc. I just found a case listed in VICAP the other day that I'd never seen before on any of the standard sites. The cases listed on the Massachusetts State Police Dept's website, for example, are only a fraction of the Massachusetts cases on Charley Project.
 

Mountain_Kat

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Okay, let's back up a bit because I'm starting to lose focus here.

How many bodies were found in Manorville, and when exactly were they found?
 

dcgrumpy

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I think you misunderstood me. Yes, the body found would be tested for DNA. That doesn't mean, however, that they have DNA from missing persons' to match it to, especially if it's a prostitute or someone who has not been seen by their family in person for a long time, or a transient. The family or contact person has to provide LE with a toothbrush, hairbrush, dental records, etc. to be tested. (There's a "guide" to missing persons written by an LE officer somewhere on this site that everyone should read, that was recently posted - describing the many very easy ways in which cases fall thru the cracks - LE doesn't keep in touch with families, LE depts misplace dental records and evidence, information is not entered accurately by the dispatcher doing the database entry, etc). And if the person is known to be a drifter to the families or to leave and come back, it may take months or even years for family members to report the person missing. Remember that the reason that they were able to match the other UID found there to Jessica Taylor was because she had been arrested in DC and was on LE's radar, so when the notice of a UID was sent to other law enforcement agencies from NY, the LE officer who dealt with her in DC recognized the tattoo on the UID - not because New York LE matched her thru DNA to one of their missing persons cases. That's why NAMUS came about - so ideally, as we've all said there should be at some point, so there's a national database of information and UIDs in one state can be matched to MPs in another state, etc. This system is still imperfect though - in that police depts are not mandated by law to enter their case info into this system and, if they do not have the economic resources, probably don't have a staff person assigned specifically to entering case info into NAMUS. That's why you might see a missing person profile on a state clearinghouse site, for example, but not in NAMUS; in NAMUS, but not on Charley Project or Doe Network, etc. I just found a case listed in VICAP the other day that I'd never seen before on any of the standard sites. The cases listed on the Massachusetts State Police Dept's website, for example, are only a fraction of the Massachusetts cases on Charley Project.

They can test DNA from family members to see if they're related.
 

Mountain_Kat

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bodhi93

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I wondered about this as well... How much skin would someone have after being out in the elements for about 7 months? (If this is Indira, she went missing in April and the body was found in November of 2000) If there was still skin, maybe it (the tattoo) wasn't recognizable...

She also had a tattoo on her back which I haven't seen mentioned on the body they found.
 

scandi

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I wondered about this as well... How much skin would someone have after being out in the elements for about 7 months? (If this is Indira, she went missing in April and the body was found in November of 2000) If there was still skin, maybe it (the tattoo) wasn't recognizable...


Hi guys, Here is another article about the search for her:

http://articles.nydailynews.com/2000-04-28/news/18127903_1_wallet-gas-station-credit-cards

Remember that LE always leaves something out of the public eye, either that or lies about something. It could be they left out the info about the tattoo.
 
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