if john and patsy.....

Discussion in 'JonBenet Ramsey' started by michelle, Sep 28, 2005.

  1. michelle

    michelle Joy comes in the Morning

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    just say they did commit this crime or one of them did, why on earth would they cover for one another?? I would kill for my child, husband or not i dont care i would not cover for them no matter what! Dont you think if they were involved one of them would have slipped up by now? Go easy on me i am fairly new, lol...:)
     
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  3. soleil

    soleil being honest doesn't mean insulting others

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    i think because both have their "secrets"...
     
  4. Brefie

    Brefie New Member

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    Well, my take on that is - If John knew Patsy had done it.... She would be arrested and go to prison for life. For John that would mean he had buried 2 daughters, have an unbelievably traumatized son and watch his 2nd wife rot in prison.

    For Patsy it would mean her meal ticket would go to jail and no longer provide for her.
     
  5. Floh

    Floh Former Member

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    My thoughts run in that direction, personally. :(
     
  6. michelle

    michelle Joy comes in the Morning

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    I just cant understand if patsy did it, and say it was an "accident" why would john cover for her....or vice versa, because that would mean that one of the parents was not involved in the actual murder just the cover up and i love my hubby and if something happened to him our family would have some problems financially but we would survive, it just doesnt make any sense to me that if only one parent committed the murder why would they both cover it up......i could see if they both committed the murder...I dont know its all so freaking twisted to me.....And i have always believe in the ramseys innocence, i used to think they were guilty then changed my opinion.....Now i am reading PMPT and i have alot of things i think dont add up, owell....i hope jon benet gets the justice she deserves one day...
     
  7. eve

    eve New Member

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    I'm beginning to like one of the sons or both of the sons for this crime. I tend to agree w/ Blue Crab, the only person/people P and J would protect would be in their immediate family. BR seems awfully young to have done this alone. I cannot find anything on John's older son JAR's alibi, although I'm sure there are threads somewhere. I think he had one, but is it airtight? Could he have snuck home and surprised JBR and BR? Dressed as Santa? Serving pineapple and tea? Could he have been introducing sex games to his 1/2 sibs? If they were protecting both of their sons, after losing their daughter, it might make sense. I don't think Patsy would protect only JAR but if BR were there, too? Then again, considering the "meal ticket" aspect, protecting JAR is possible as well. Who knows about his alibi?

    Eve
     
  8. sharpar

    sharpar If dogs dont go to heaven I want to go where they

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    I dont believe they are protecting each other. They made every attempt to protect the secret and the abuser. By reporting an accident, inquiries would be made, but they would receive tons of attention and sympathy as the parents of a kidnapped child. Being suspected of murder was preferrable to being postively identified as child sexual abusers. IMO
     
  9. Brefie

    Brefie New Member

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    Hi sharpar.... I am a little unclear on what you are saying. Is it that you believe the parents (or one of them) was sexually abusing her and it all went wrong, so they killed her and tried to make it look like an intruder? So that they wouldn't be identified as monsters? I would love to hear your theory if you have one - or even just your hunches.
     
  10. michelle

    michelle Joy comes in the Morning

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    Like i said before i have changed my opinion to believe that they are innocent but i still have lots of things i dont understand and i am finding myself to be wavering back and forth, i dont understand how a parent could cover up the murder of their child for another parent, but i can see how the parents would cover up for another family member such as a sibling......just my opinion though. even though that is just as sick......but thats more realistic to me...
     
  11. luvbeaches

    luvbeaches New Member

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    My sentiments exactly.
     
  12. narlacat

    narlacat Former Member

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    JAR has an iron clad alibi.
    He was in Atlanta at the time of the murder, with movie ticket stubs to prove he was at some movie. Also he was photographed at a ATM and had the receipt.
    Still, some believe he could have been in Boulder and could be responsible for JonBenet's death.
     
  13. sharpar

    sharpar If dogs dont go to heaven I want to go where they

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    Yes I believe someone in her immediate family was molesting her; during the last incident of abuse she died. They came up with intruder to take the blame for the evidence of abuse and explain her death. They were counting on LE and all of us to believe she was molested and murdered by a monster deviant intruder. Isnt that the problem with monsters? They never look like what they are until its too late for their victims. How could we ever suspect these perfect indulging CHRISTIAN parents of anything so horrible ? While it didnt go exactly the way they hoped they did manage to do enough that confused and obstructed things to cause doubt, not be arrested or charged and maintain alot of support, attention and sympathy. It is preferrable to be only under the suspicion of murder ( they get to claim they are victims of LE who are accusing them to cover their poor work ) than to be postively identified as child molesters. The autopsy was done and report was made public telling all of us what they tried so hard to hide. That little girl was sexually abused to death. We know what, we know where, we know when, the only real mystery is who is the abuser ?
    JMO
     
  14. BlueCrab

    BlueCrab New Member

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    narlacat,

    JAR does indeed have an ironclad alibi, but he remains my number two suspect. After all, a person doesn't have to be in town to be charged with murder.

    JAR's blue suitcase, found under the basement window, contained some interesting items. For instance, it contained the bedspread from JAR's bed which had his semen on it; it contained a Dr. Seuss book with JAR's name on it; and fibers from the bedspread were found on JonBenet's genital area.

    The items in the suitcase suggest a possible sexual encounter could have recently occurred between JonBenet and JAR, but not necessarily on the day of the murder. Could JAR have been the tutor of erotic asphyxiation games for JonBenet and Burke? Was JAR in Boulder on the 23rd? Was JonBenet ready to reveal some dark secrets and had to be shut up?

    JAR's alibi seems almost too perfect. Did he put a contract out on JonBenet?

    BlueCrab
     
  15. narlacat

    narlacat Former Member

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    Hi Bluecrab
    They are big questions you ask.
    The facts you mentioned, along with the boatman story, certainly make you wonder...
    Does anyone know where JAR is these days....he'd have to be 30 odd....has he married?? Has he got kids?? Just curious....
     
  16. Jayelles

    Jayelles New Member

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    He's married to Jordan - information courtesy of John Ramsey during his election campaign. I remember his wife's name because there is a British celebrity called Jordan who has made her living out of having enormous (silicone) breasts! Regarding what he is doing now, for some reason, I am thinking Detroit and finance but don't take that as gospel. I'm not especially interested in the private lives of the Ramsey family and I pay scant attention to stories about them
     
  17. Brefie

    Brefie New Member

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    I have never understood the suspicion surrounding JAR. Blucrab - are you referring to the semen found on his comforter? I don't think that is questionable at all.
     
  18. BlueCrab

    BlueCrab New Member

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    Brefie,

    Yes, I am referring to JAR's semen on the comforter that had been on his bed upstairs but was found in the basement stuffed in his suitcase along with a Dr. Seuss book. Fibers from the comforter were found on the genital area of JonBenet. I find this suspicious.

    It suggests that an undressed JonBenet had been on the comforter.
     
  19. Linda7NJ

    Linda7NJ Active Member

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    Please tell me more about this comforter, specifically what do you mean it had been on the bed upstairs? When exactly? If it was placed in that suitcase sometime before that night, who else could have known it was in there? Not a intruder, that's for sure. An intruder certainly wouldn't return it to the suitcase either.
     
  20. Shanny

    Shanny New Member

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    What strikes me odd is how cool and calm Burke has been all this time, he is 18, going to college and it's like he doesn't even care that his sister is dead! When they interviewed him at 9 years old he said he just wanted to "get on with his life," it sound like his sister didn't mean a thing to him.
    I think that he had something to do with JonBenet's murder.

     
  21. eve

    eve New Member

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    I agree. There has to be a reason for the fibers and the semen. JAR was a bit old for Dr. Suess. :rolleyes: The suitcase in the basement suggests the items were being "stashed."

    Previous sexual abuse of JBR is suspected and I believe a family member is most likely to be the abuser. That leaves J, P, B and JAR. I believe J and P are covering up, protecting someone. When faced with the death of their own child, whom would they protect? Themselves or their immediate family members, imo.

    I think Burke could have been in on some sex games, possibly even erotic asphyxia, but I have a hard time believing someone his age could have committed this crime -- positioning JBR and writing the ransom note, all by himself. J and P could have helped B after discovering what he had done. But B was so young, it just doesn't gel for me. OTOH, if his older sib JAR had "trained" him previously...well now, that is a theory I could run with. So, here goes.

    Let's say JAR and a friend were exploiting JBR and B sexually. They had done this on prior occasions, thus the suitcase, book and blanket stashed downstairs. Suppose this same friend planned a "Santa" visit to JBR and Burke that night while JAR was in Atlanta. JBR and Burke go downstairs after "bed," snack on pineapple and sip tea while waiting for their friend, "Santa."

    I tend to think it was a sex game gone awry. BlueCrab suggests the idea that JAR could have planned a "hit" on JBR . If she was going to spill the beans about them, her oldest bro and his accomplice/s could have planned the murder, with the friend executing it that night while JAR has a tight alibi. He could have involved Burke in the preliminary "games" to get her to participate.

    I think this is less likely than an accidental death during sex games, though. If JBR were planning to reveal the abuse, I think she would have been afraid of the involved family members/friends, and there seems to be no indication of that, at least not that I've heard. If "Santa" came over, did she know the identity of "Santa?" I would think so, although she was probably told it was a secret and to "shhhh."

    Whether by accident or design, JBR ends up dead. When J and P discover the tragedy and realize B and JAR's friend were in on it, they cannot bear to turn in their own son, B, or subject him to testimony that will incriminate John's son, JAR, by association. JBR was already gone, how could they allow the ruined lives of their other children too? They may have already been or quickly became aware of past incidents of sexual abuse by JAR and the guilt and humiliation was more than they could face. Being suspected of murder may have seemed preferable to the public shame of revealing this type of sexual abuse on the part of their own family and family friends, so they didn't pursue JAR's friend.

    Thoughts?

    Eve
     

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