If you believe the Ramsey's did it please answer this for me...

Discussion in 'JonBenet Ramsey' started by WarsawJoy, Aug 30, 2006.

  1. WarsawJoy

    WarsawJoy New Member

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    Hello, I am new here. I know a lot of people think the Ramseys did it, but I can't seem to understand what people believe the motive was.

    What would their motive be for doing this? If your theory involves child pornography in some way, what are you basing it on? Have they been linked to child porn in some way? It seems there would have to be some evidence to make that kind of a claim.

    Thanks for your input!
     
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  3. LinasK

    LinasK Verified insider- Mark Dribin case

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    Hi Warsaw, welcome to WS! I believe JonBenet's involvement in beauty pageants and Patsy's unavailability due to her cancer led John to sexually molest his daughter. I believe her death was a sex game gone awry and a decision was made to finish her off rather than seek medical attention. Then the parents decided to make it look like an intruder and set up elaborate staging and Patsy wrote the note to "stand by her man".
     
  4. Bev

    Bev New Member

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    it was an accident.
     
  5. txsvicki

    txsvicki Active Member

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    I'm not one of the really great experts about this here, but I think that of the family members, the murderer would be Patsy due to her health problems, exhaustion from XMAS, and lack of hormones. I think Patsy could have flown into a rage at JonBenet who had been sick so much and may have been irritable at bedtime. I'm not sure how it would all fit with the head injury coming last though. I just can't accept that the head injury or strangling was any accident, so I also think that there possibly could have been an intruder, a serial type killer who had it all planned out and premeditated with the intention of murder.
     
  6. Bronte Nut

    Bronte Nut New Member

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    Hi WarsawJoy, and welcome from me, too.

    LinasK certainly paints a perfectly possible scenario, and many people subscribe to something similar.

    While I have no problem accepting that scenario, it is also possible that her death was a non-sexually motivated accident. It could simply be that Patsy lost it, due to the kid rotating her parasol the wrong way or singing off-key just one time too many. Don't forget, these "normal" people treated her like a doll, whom they hypersexualized for all the pedophiles in the world to see and lust over. Things may have spiralled into an incident in which a psychotic Patsy managed to drop JonBenet or otherwise crack her head on something rather solid - it wouldn't take much to fracture a six-year-old's skull.

    The rest of the 'evidence', including the post-mortem garroting, the ridiculous ransom note, etc. would have been scrambled together as a retrofit. A pathetic one, as we all saw, and one that should still be ringing alarm bells in the police/DA buildings to this day.

    To answer your very reasonable and important question, there may not even have been a motive, as the killing may well have been entirely unpremeditated and accidental. Many of the people who believe the Ramseys were responsible for her death, as I do, do not necessarily think that they intended to kill her at any time.

    As LinasK suggests, in their horror and panic, they might have decided on a 'tragic murdered child' route, rather than facing an even more harrowing investigation into their family-inflicted accidental death, with its possible manslaughter charges.

    The only folks who know, ain't telling.

    As for the "SBTC" at the end of the ransom note... it may have no real significance. For all we know, Patsy could have been listening to a tape of ghastly show tunes/standards and heard the words "Slow Boat To China". Who knows? They could have been random letters coming out of a crazed conspirator's head. I doubt if it is in any way significant.

    Later, gators.
     
  7. Tricia

    Tricia Owner Websleuths.com Staff Member Administrator

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    This crime is no big mystery.

    Remember, Mary Lacy admitted today that WE, as in the Internet, have all the evidence.

    I believe it was an accident too. What led up to the accident I am not sure.

    Patsy was a classic narcissist. She needed to make this accident look like a big crime. Making her the "victim." The mother of a kidnapped beauty queen.

    Patsy was ready for her close up when she called the cops.

    It was an accident. Patsy was in on the cover up.

    Like I said, very simple. Let the evidence lead you to the conclusion.

    The first thing you need to do is understand that parents are capable of doing HORRIBLE things to their children. Whether they have prior abuse or not.

    We don't know what goes on behind close doors.

    The fact that Patsy dressed JonBenet up like a hooker and she recently started defecating and wetting her bed again is a strong indication that something was happening to her.

    Simple..Simple..Simple...
     
  8. Bronte Nut

    Bronte Nut New Member

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    The Boss has nailed it. Ditto to Tricia's stance. This ain't quantum theory.

    As for people who say the Ramseys can't win, I say they already did.
     
  9. LinasK

    LinasK Verified insider- Mark Dribin case

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    Bronte, on a related note, did you know that Patsy had bought her for Christmas a lifelike MyTwinn doll with the same hair and eye color as JonBenet?? Ironic, isn't it?
     
  10. Tricia

    Tricia Owner Websleuths.com Staff Member Administrator

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    It's interestning to note that JonBenet did not like her My Twinn Doll at all. Patsy was very disappointed on Christmas morning when JonBenet stated her feelings.

    Pressure building that morning....
     
  11. Tricia

    Tricia Owner Websleuths.com Staff Member Administrator

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    AMEN!!!!!
     
  12. Bronte Nut

    Bronte Nut New Member

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    Wow... I didn't... but why am I not surprised? Good call.

    To me, the Ramseys were nut jobs who were capable of anything.

    JonBenet may as well have been a doll. In fact, it might be worth checking the doll's nether regions for "DNA"... if you catch my drift...
     
  13. Bronte Nut

    Bronte Nut New Member

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    And you don't disappoint Patsy...
     
  14. SleuthingSleuth

    SleuthingSleuth New Member

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    Right now...I also believe it was some type of accident, although I also think *something* else was going on in the background...something that perhaps hammered home the need to cover up Jonbenet's "incident" rather than call 911.

    The coverup was both sloppy in ways and better in other ways...and gruesome for any parent to do...any reasonable one, anyways. But if a person was willing to do anything to preserve themselves...what they might do, well, one can't be surprised at it. Especially in panic.

    I do agree that in many ways Jonbenet may have been like a "doll" to Patsy.

    I think Burke may have been coached to forget details that to him, perhaps had no meaning. The coaching may not have been completely perfect though.

    The case is dirty...and a lot of its details and truths will probably never be known.
    I'm still galled at how the police couldn't really examine the phone records.

    I just can't really go for an IDI theory without real evidence for one.
     
  15. Chrishope

    Chrishope New Member

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    I agree with LinasK
     
  16. newtv

    newtv New Member

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    I dont get why its called the elaborate staging cuz they did a very poor job of it-they did it in a room where the window was small and it could be doubted whether or not it was even used by an intruder - the size being smaller than most men.
    They left things very unclear if they wanted to have others believe there was an intruder cuz most of u think they are guilty.
    The biggest problem I have with the whole notion they staged it is that the staging was so poorly done-only an idiot would write that ransom note-make it that long..and leave her in a room with nothing out of place but a suitcase..
    These are smart people-they would have done a better job..such as break a window-put a chair under it-they would make it more obvious and believeable..jmo
    And i get stopped for sure when its explained as sexual abuse gone awry..there is nothing in his history to suggest he was an abuser-even his ex wife stood up and said so-and she is an ex.
    Not one person has come out of the closet with these things having been true in his history..i mean it makes no sense that they did it..and if the crime scene was screwed up by incompetent police work, why does everyone think it was the ramseys..once a scene is contaminated-it points to no-one or everyone..not just the ramseys.

    Mark Lunford didnt kill his child-and the grandfather had a record and yet it wasnt him..it was an intruder-and noone heard him come take her
    His trailer was pply the same distance as the basement was from the ramseys bedroom so its very possible the intruder could go unheard.

    Surely the ramseys could have done a much better job of staging it. Even an intruder could have bashed her over the head and just left it at that..they didnt have to stage a strangulation to stage this.
    That was overkill not just kill..it wasnt necessary.
    (all this from catching john ramsey abusing her or patsy killing her for bedwetting..it just is so weak in my opinion-they could have done a softer kill and still have it point to an intruder)
    Its the work of a depraved paedophile -they kill like that..non-killers such as the ramseys dont kill like that for the first time..god-they could have smothered her and left her in her room and still have it point to an intruder.
    Look at elizabeth smart-it happens-when noone wants to believe it wasnt an inside job-until elizabeth was found a lot of folks blamed the dad or the uncles-people said many rotten things about them..and even the case of that duncan guy-they had no idea who he was-he just picked that house to watch and line up a kill.
    It happens-so i just do not get how everything the ramseys did or did not do makes them evil.

    It doesnt make any sense and even the fact that some of u think it was john and others think it was patsy and others think it was burke tells me they would not have been convicted..it would have to be clearer and it wasnt.
    If 2 explanations are equal u have to give the defendant the benefit of reasonable doubt- for every argument that has been presented I can think of a reasonable counter possibilitiy..so if I can its possible they were not involved-cuz I am not trying hard to counter claim..it just looks differently to me.
    Now-one thing that is out of place for me is no footsteps in the snow..these intruders dont fly out of a house..however, the investigation was so poorly done that I have doubts about that - for one thing tons of people came to the house before they knew she was dead..how can they say there were no footsteps in the snow-and I also heard other reasons for it-like the snow wasnt everywhere they could have walked.
    yada
     
  17. UKGuy

    UKGuy Well-Known Member

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    WarsawJoy,

    There may not be one primary motive but a series of mixed motives by different people at different points in time.

    There is evidence that JonBenet was being chronically sexually abused.

    JonBenet at the age of six was still not accomplished in her toilet procedures.

    She exhibited inapropriate boundary behaviour, and would recurrently wet/soil herself.

    JonBenet had been involved in a prior accident involving her brother Burke, on this occassion, there was no hesitation in seeking medical care.

    An accident is not a homicide, and does not merit the amount of staging that was applied to where she was discovered, not discounting the forensic cleanup eslewhere in the house.

    Also there were four people in that house on the 25th, and only three were alive the following day, assuming there was the staging suggested, then this and corroborating statements made by the remaining residents suggests not only a homicide but a conspiracy.

    IMO JonBenet was manually strangled the rest is staging.



    .
     
  18. Peter Hamilton

    Peter Hamilton New Member

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    UKGuy--very nice post---and while many feel Patsy could not have done this,mothers lose lose it all time--even my own loving mother recenly admitted that one time when we were kids,my younger brother was giving my mother a hard time,not wanting to get dressed after she changed my bother's diapers,hewas crying like crazy--my mother said she felt,seriously,like CHOKING him--I said why on earth would you feel that way? she said "he was BAITING me"--my brother was only 1 yr old at the time--,and we grew up in a nice upper middle class town where the avg homeprice is now well over a million dollars---I know there's a big difference between thnking of doing something and actuallydoing it,but my point is still valid
     
  19. Maybe So

    Maybe So The one and only

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    I agree with everything you said.

    I find the argument that Patsy killed her for wetting the bed or struck out and killed her as she was jealous of her to be weak at best.

    Not all parents are capable of such horrendous things to their child. True some parents do murder their children on purpose. People who murder and/or molest their children in horrible ways usually pretty obviously have a history of obvious mental problems before the crime. And if an accident then I don't see normal parents capable of physically abusing their child to such an extent just to cover up.

    If JR was abusing JBR then Patsy would have never looked at him again without spitting anger showing on her face. Not for one minute do I think she needed to stay married to him so badly that she would cover for him to such an extent....and if she did cover for him she would have hated doing so and it would have shown that she harbored a deep resentment toward him...and vice versa for John covering for Patsy.

    Burke would have spilled his guts sometime over the years if he knew anything.

    Where is the evidence that PR was a person not to be dissapointed? Is there some evidence that she would fly into rages at JBR? I haven't heard any...fighting and/or dissagreeing over what shirt she would wear to a party or not liking a doll pushed Patsy over the edge? puleeeeze....all mom's and kids dissagree and have their little battles over clothes and such.

    John Ramsey used his dauter for sexual gratification because his wife couldn't have sex? Reaching... I think he could have found sex elsewhere if he needed it so badly.

    Further as you state, not even the RDIs can agree on who caused the death of JonBenet or who was molesting her so obviously the evidence isn't quite as clear as they proclaim it is....and certainly not clear enough to have convicted any one of them.

    Some of the scenarios are possible but I have never read a RDI theory that I found probable.

    Until someone comes up with a better explanation for the DNA under her nails and in her panties than the sneezing garment factory worker.....(I'd also like an explanation for the marks that appear clearly to be stun gun marks)...I am firmly planted on the fence.
     
  20. Peter Hamilton

    Peter Hamilton New Member

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    MaybeSo--so you believe that "most mothers that kill their kids have mental problems"? well,that would be easier to accept,wouldn't it? do you happen to have any statistics that back your belief? If this is true,then why is Diane Downs in prison for life for shooting her three kids?? Why is Susan Smith in prison for lifefor murdering her two sons/? Why is Darlie Routier on death row for stabbing to death her two sons? Why did a mother here recently stand by and watch her 5 year old get beaten to death by her boyfriend because she defecated on the floor? only Andrea Yates supports your theory and that took 2 trials
     
  21. Maybe So

    Maybe So The one and only

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    If you investigate those parents you mentioned you will usually find out that they showed signs of mental or emotional problems and/or allowing abuse BEFORE (and after) the murders...not just Andrea Yates.
     

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