If you support the Ramseys or are on the fence, please read this...

Discussion in 'JonBenet Ramsey' started by Maxi, Dec 1, 2003.

  1. Maxi

    Maxi Guest

    I completely agree with Jayelles with one exception. I am still not convinced the Ramseys didn't kill JonBenet. If they are involved, I lean toward Patsy as the killer with John assisting in the coverup. If they are not involved, I lean toward someone with an obsession about JonBenet rather than someone seeking revenge on John Ramsey.
     
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  3. ayjey

    ayjey always lurking

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    Casshew.

    I was on solidly on the fence until I saw Patsy's handwriting compared to the note left behind.

    :dontknow:
     
  4. Shylock

    Shylock Former Member

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    I agree, there is no doubt that Patsy wrote the ransom note, a half-blind person can see that.
    I'm still on the fence about which Rammer caused her death. Any of the three could have, and Burke certainly looks good for it because of the childlike molestation.
     
  5. Barbara

    Barbara New Member

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    "...I am aware that the majority here are Ramsey bashers,...."

    I resent being called a Ramsey basher. Believing that they are involved in their daughter's death does not make us "evil Ramsey bashers".

    Like Jayelles and Maxi, I too am apalled at the extreme arrogance the Ramseys exhibited during the investigation.

    Yes, I do believe one of the Ramseys are involved in JonBenet's death.

    That doesn't make me or anyone else "bashers", just makes us believers that the Ramseys are hiding their involvement in JonBenet's murder.

    The "bashers" are the Ramseys who have thrown just about everyone they used to care about "under that bus".
     
  6. sissi

    sissi Former Member

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    I firmly believe the Ramseys are innocent!
    I do not have access to the Ransom note to determine pen pressure ,but from the overall appearance it doesn't appear to be written by Patsy IMO.
    There were no bleed through pages on the pad but,several were missing,as though the perp took the pages for this purpose. Why didn't he just take the entire pad? It's almost as though he ripped the pages and took them with him in a folder or something to keep them neat until he returned them to the house. No one asked the right questions early enough to jog the memory of the Ramseys. Who may have grabbed a pen and the pad to run to a phone in private while visiting? Then later a folder appears which includes a picture of the entrepreneurial mag photo of John,with a heart around him? Was it ever determined if this folder was theirs? In fact,did the police release the "leak" deliberately to add to the already building public case against the Ramseys,was this "leak" truth? Were the pages absolutely from that pad,or was another pad taken from the home. We know,for fact,that the Pughs helped themselves to pads and pens from the Ramseys,can we be certain this pad was the one? It would have been a nice "gesture" (ha) on the part of the police to have confiscated the pads from the Pughs,but heck they didn't want to seem insensitive at this time,when Linda was obviously upset and her inebriated hubby was asking if Jonbenet was strangled.
    They should have asked Linda,how many people may have stopped in the kitchen,both adults and children,who could have grabbed a pad to write a note,and left with one.
    JMO IMO
     
  7. Jayelles

    Jayelles New Member

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    I don't say that I 'firmly' believe ni their innocence - because I don't know the Ramseys, I wasn't there and who knows what goes on behind closed doors?

    However, I do believe that Patsy adored JonBenet with all her heart and I don't think she would stay with John if he was a monster.

    I can't understand anyone who wasn't an eye witness being able to say that they 'know' the Ramseys are innocent. They cannot possibly know that for sure. People can feel strongly that they are innocent, but they can't know for sure.

    The Ramseys have every incentive to lie about events that night and we must bear that in mind - not dismiss it outright, but bear it in mind. John Ramsey has been known to tell lies, so his word is worth less in my mind because of that.

    But I cannot envisage of them killing their daughter.
     
  8. Arielle

    Arielle New Member

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    I am also on the fence on this case. I lean towards the Ramsey's being innocent, simply because I cannot conceive of a motive for the crime if it was premeditated and I cannot see them covering up an accident. Patsy was overprotective of JonBenet in the extreme. If some sort of accident happened, I can see her rushing JonBenet to the hospital and begging the doctors and God to save her baby. I can't see her allowing this coverup to happen. I would never think that such a thing would save my reputation and I can't see that she would have thought that either. Of course, I don't know them and I don't know how they would really react in any given situation. Like Jayelles, I feel that they received some really bad advice from their lawyers and were not capable of thinking for themselves and managed to did themselves into the hole they are in today. They certainly are not perfect people or saints and there must be some dirty laundry there somewhere. I hate those people that put them up on a pedastal and say they can do no wrong.

    I also don't think Patsy wrote the ransom note, even after seeing the handwriting comparison. The ransom note and Patsy's writing look very much like mine. So much so, I wanted to try to write it out myself to see if it would match. However, I decided this was a bad idea, so I never did it.

    I tend to think an intruder did this. However, an intruder does NOT have to be a stranger.
     
  9. Toth

    Toth Inactive

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    I just want to make one quick comment on 'arrogance' and 'following bad advice':
    I saw nothing that was arrogant. Apparently others did, but I don't know when.
    As for bad advice? The lawyers kept them out of jail. The lawyers told them do not speak to the cops, it was the Ramseys who insisted that their lawyers arrange a meeting with the police despite their lawyers advice that it was best for the Ramseys to not meet with the BPD at all.
    Pedestal? Not really. But in comparison to Porno Peeping Santa or Naked Photographers strolling down the street and the like, I sure think the Ramseys deserve general admiration for their lifestyle even if certain aspects, such as pageant participation, are not to your particular likeing.
     
  10. Barbara

    Barbara New Member

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    "Pedestal? Not really. But in comparison to Porno Peeping Santa or Naked Photographers strolling down the street and the like...."

    Truthfully, the "Porno Peeping Santa" (not nice, BTW) and the "Naked Photographers" cooperated fully and when asked by the BPD to answer questions, and whatever else. Can't say the same for those admirable Ramseys.

    Have you never seen a porno Toth? So easy to malign the dead when they can't defend themselves eh?
     
  11. Imon128

    Imon128 Former Member

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    deleted to help MissMisty with her thread. ;)
     
  12. Toth

    Toth Inactive

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    Thats news to me and I think it might also be news to him too, but if it did actually happen, I still don't see it as particularly relevant.
     
  13. TLynn

    TLynn New Member

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    I've been on the fence and both sides of it ---

    But it always comes back to the pineapple.
     
  14. Jayelles

    Jayelles New Member

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    Thank you Toth for demonstrating what I was trying to say about the supporters.

    Re John's mistress - common knowledge. You can read about it in the police transcripts. I/m surprised that Toth is denying knowledge of this. He's discussed it often enough.
     
  15. Maxi

    Maxi Guest

    I'd say the idea of hiring the PR firm was pretty bad advice.
     
  16. Shawna

    Shawna Inactive

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    I always believed a GOTH was responsible for Jonbenet's murder. Members of the BPD said that only a midget could get through that small window. This effeminate gothic dwarf was not cut out for the midget wrestling team. He used his height as an advantage and became a cat burgler around Boulder :eek:

    I always felt the Ramsey's were innocent .
     
  17. Nehemiah

    Nehemiah Active Member

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    I am a fence sitter most of the time. I really hate to be that way, but I cannot get off for any length of time.

    At the most, I believe the Rs could have covered up an accident within the family. I do not believe there was anything premeditated.

    On the other hand, I don't believe that it was a random intruder. If someone else killled JB besides an accident w/in the family, I believe that it was someone known to her, and familiar with the house and grounds.
     
  18. Britt

    Britt New Member

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    I cannot envisage any parent killing their child... and yet they do.

    Like Barbara, I resent being called a Ramsey basher... actually, I don't resent it... I don't really care... but it's a silly dismissive term that means nothing. I'm a basher of liars and of manglers of justice.

    Finally, I want to know what Imon said before she edited her post. I probably agree with whatever it was :D
     
  19. K777angel

    K777angel New Member

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    Since I AM "open-minded" about this case, that means that I have objectively looked at every single fact of this case. I'm not talking about rumors - but the simple known facts of this case.
    I am left with no other logical conclusion than to understand that of course the Ramseys were involved in the crime & cover-up.
    Nothing else makes sense. Evidence and facts do not lie.

    It does not mean I - or anyone else coming to this logical conclusion is a "Ramsey basher." Don't you know that when logic is not on YOUR side of the arguement that you then must resort to name calling of your opponent??
    It's a way of diverting attention away from the REAL problem and the truth.

    A wise Philosophy professor once said in class that there are 2 kinds of people: Those who want the truth - and those who want to be consoled.
    How true.
     
  20. vicktor

    vicktor New Member

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    Blazeboy3: Please refer where/how you got this info(Animal Hair).. Thanks ( animal hairs reportedly found on JB's hands)

    I saw it on the eight asterisk forum several months ago being discussed. Although I can't recall the printed or quoted source of it, I vaguely remember it being brought up in one of the depositions taken from ST or MB.
     
  21. Shylock

    Shylock Former Member

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    Toth, it's too bad you didn't pay close attention to the Van Damms--from day-1 they could have given the Ramseys a lesson on how innocent parents REALLY act. They DON'T hide behind lawyers.
     

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