IL IL - Dermot Kelly, 16, Oglesby, Jan 1972

Hey Guys,

This is scary! I just Googled Dermot's quote to his parents, "I intend to make a new life on my own and do it completely on my own." and was SHOCKED at one of the results that came up. "How to Fake Your Own Death." However, I am not going to post the link here because of the sensitivity of the information. If you find it, you might want to study the types of things Dermot may have thought about if he staged the scene.

I did not expect this to show in the one of the results and was frightened by it. What I was HOPING for was another article or two about Dermot's case that went into more detail about that quote to his parents three days before he left home. It is interesting to study the psychological implications that his quote had.

I believe that Dermot's parents should have questioned him further about wanting to make a new life and do it completely on his own. To end this post on a happy note, here are some support questions or things that might have helped Dermot stay or maybe even find a better place to live:

http://www.wikihow.com/Help-a-Friend-Who-Wants-to-Run-Away-from-Home

I wonder if Dermot would have had a confider to talk to him about the issues with his home and family life, how things may have changed? May Dermot have a world of peace, happiness, and love, wherever he may be.


Satch
 
Hey Guys,

This is scary! I just Googled Dermot's quote to his parents, "I intend to make a new life on my own and do it completely on my own." and was SHOCKED at one of the results that came up. "How to Fake Your Own Death." However, I am not going to post the link here because of the sensitivity of the information. If you find it, you might want to study the types of things Dermot may have thought about if he staged the scene.

I did not expect this to show in the one of the results and was frightened by it. What I was HOPING for was another article or two about Dermot's case that went into more detail about that quote to his parents three days before he left home. It is interesting to study the psychological implications that his quote had.

I believe that Dermot's parents should have questioned him further about wanting to make a new life and do it completely on his own. To end this post on a happy note, here are some support questions or things that might have helped Dermot stay or maybe even find a better place to live:

http://www.wikihow.com/Help-a-Friend-Who-Wants-to-Run-Away-from-Home

I wonder if Dermot would have had a confider to talk to him about the issues with his home and family life, how things may have changed? May Dermot have a world of peace, happiness, and love, wherever he may be.


Satch

Thanks, Satch. I agree. I have wondered if Dermot had contact with other young people or a counselor, etc who may have assisted him. Especially if this person felt dermot was not strange, abnormal, etc. I also wonder if the quote you found can be linked to any movement or group from that time period?
 
Thanks, Satch. I agree. I have wondered if Dermot had contact with other young people or a counselor, etc who may have assisted him. Especially if this person felt dermot was not strange, abnormal, etc. I also wonder if the quote you found can be linked to any movement or group from that time period?

I wonder the same things. It's possible that when Dermot went for that treatment program, in the fall of 1971 that I believe was controversial for the reasons I gave in above posts, he may have sought consoling from other teens. If the program was some non-conformist situation, probably most, if not all the kids hated their parents for putting them through that. It is beyond comprehension of the sadness and disturbing things that might have been done to Dermot and other patients at these places, especially if Dermot's Dad could have sent him there upon Dermot admitting, or Dad finding out that he was "gay."

It's a nightmarish thought of a sensitive empathetic kid like Dermot being given shock treatment. That's the kind of stuff they did to teens who were non-conformists back in the 1970's. I don't know when it stopped, but it certainly could not have stopped soon enough!

It's a great question of insight as to whom Dermot may have consoled or confided in the conflict between his home and school values. Daily conflicts and challenges with a constant battle against Dermot's opposing beliefs, and the move toward a more progressive liberal society in the late 60's, which Dermot sought as a form of escapism from the pain in his daily life. I think over time, just about everything Dermot loved or supported, his Dad hated.

My belief is that Dermot may have confided the most in reading and writing about ideas of others who may have shared similar experience, along with other young people at the clinic. As well as any friends he had who followed the Hippie Movement. Having great philosophical insight with an empathetic desire to find peace in his life, as well as confiding in others who shared his ideas, was Dermot's life-long goal!

I think music, reading, and writing inspired him, and of course the Hippie Movement. My goal that has no actual time-limit, is to find out Dermot's "favorite personal possessions." His favorite books, music/bands, records, poets, writings by others, and especially his own words. Personally, I would like to read, listen to, or study any of Dermot's views about learning, life, and love.

You never know what may come up with reflections such as these. I always believed that Dermot really didn't care for a lot of materialistic things, EXCEPT things like his favorite books, records/tapes, writings and poems. Those aspects of his life that provided an escape from his daily conflicts. Seeking peace, freedom, and love, and the need to leave his family and start a new life was essential in Dermot's mind where he had to do that.

Satch
 
Additionally. Most of what was said about Dermot, was someone else's perceptions. We don't have any direct quotes from Dermot himself other than the statement from his father that Dermot wanted to go make a life for himself all on his own. (paraphrased from memory.)

Maybe I am personalizing this too much, but having grown up in a family where I wasn't permitted to have my own thoughts, my own feelings or seek out my own direction with my own interests... I can't help but believe that perhaps something along those lines was the basis for the family struggles Dermot had with his family. Especially during such changing times as the late 60's, early 70's. For example, something along the lines of everyone in our family went to college, so Dermot will go to College. The family has always done it this way, so Dermot will do it this way.

I don't place blame on anyone if that were the case. It's just something that stood out to me with Dermot's comment that he was going to make a life for himself on his own terms. Maybe the medical treatment he received was not necessarily for depression or mental illness, but the families way of trying to get Dermot to conform to their way of thinking. Especially since we know he attended parochial school.

Maybe he was depressed or despondent because of his own true self being stifled. Without anyone to encourage and show interest in his becoming the person he truly wanted to be. Maybe he went target shooting to have some time by himself to think. He had many siblings, so perhaps he didn't have the privacy he sought at home to think. Or perhaps as he expressed his independent minded way of thinking he was given less room to 'breath' and pursue his own independent dreams.


Just my thoughts based on the knowledge we learned from the most recent article.

Hi Everyone!

Just going through all the tremendous and insightful posts on Dermot's case and every one of the posters have made such powerful and thought provoking statements with good reasoning behind them as to what may have happened to Dermot:

Staged disappearance and ran away to live successfully?
Suicide?
Accidental Drowning/Hypothermia?

Reading this posts, it is almost like we are reliving this case and I remain confident that closure will be found!

The quoted posts above represent one of the many issues in Dermot's life that forced him to leave. The only difference that I have is I think that Dermot's father I think is to blame for the high expectations and conformity that Dermot experienced for so many years. However, one thing that Mr. Kelly did say that I agree with is that "he read somewhere that when a person has latent talent and cannot express themselves the way they want to, they become emotionally pained and frustrated to the point where they become fed-up and can't take it anymore." Of this, I agree with Dermot's father, that Dermot had those types of feelings in his mind, for a long time prior to his disappearance.

A lot of times people in these types of conflicting situations within the family have no other choice but to leave. They are often presented with two choices fight or flee. Flee for freedom. I think there was fighting in the family. Earlier on, before I knew about the father's strict views and anger-management issues, I said something that I did not see evidence of conflict, meaning physical conflict. However, there were huge emotional pains between Dermot and his father, where the criticisms may have started out small, but manifested themselves over the years between Dermot and he. I believe Dermot could have been physically abused by his father as well.

Additionally, I did recall a poster who said Dermot was her Mother's brother, and she was really looking for closure to this case. Dermot's Mother Asta, and her side of the family always believed that Dermot ran away to join the hippie movement and to follow his love of music, a search for freedom, a journey who for Dermot peace and acceptance were critical to him. For Dermot, peace, acceptance, happiness, and love were vital to his existence. Over time he got so upset with his home-life, that leaving his home and family was the only answer. In my judgment, Dermot theorized for years, that constantly living in that house was gnawing away at his nerves and destroying any chance of his fulfillment to follow his dreams. I seriously believed that Dermot blamed his Dad for not allowing him to be whom Dermot wanted to be because it went against Mr. Kelly's deepest convictions and believes.

Dermot inside, I believe was an emotional wreck, a crying, and ticking time-bomb of Dad, Catholic School, and Church, and a strict conservative view on one side for family values. Strongly rebellious against the ideals that Dad insisted were the rules Dermot would follow. In the opposing view corner, Dermot stood with his own values of liberalism, freedom, peace, and love, shared with the turbulent times of the 60's culture. The Hippie Movement, Dermot's favorite books and music which Dermot loved were his escape from the pain in his daily life. However, Dermot believed that this escape could only be a permanent by living home and family, forever.

I think his Mother was in the middle of this conflict. However, I don't know if she would say anything negative to her husband for fear of him lashing out at her. At the time of Dermot's disappearance, a poster who said her Mother was Dermot's younger brother stated that the Kelly's marriage was failing, the father had been going through a job loss, and that the marriage was sometimes abusive.

Furthermore, I was told that Dermot's father who was a high-profile attorney, also attacked someone in his law firm. He had a bad temper. There is a very strong likelihood that Dermot may have been abused because of this, and if this is true it makes this case all the more tragic. Maybe in light of all of these family, social, and cultural issues, Dermot leaving was the right thing to do. If it was the wrong thing to do, I really don't know what else he could have done.

Satch
 
Greetings Everyone,

Hope you are well. Brainstorming again on Dermot's case and I have some interesting thoughts!

Remember when we read the originally reports from Charley Project? I think that was it. There was a little thing of interest that said on the day that Dermot left home he was carrying only "A dollar and some change." And I'm thinking, how would the Kelly's know how much money Dermot had in his pocket at that time? Than I got to thinking about Dermot living in that house with four other siblings. That's them plus his parents. A house with six people in it can feel terribly cramped to a teenager seeking independence, fulfillment, and freedom.

I wonder his parents or other family members often invaded his privacy? Something that Dermot probably would have loved...........NOT! But how could they know how much money he had on him at the time? Especially a small amount of change? If it was a school day or something when he disappeared and they gave him lunch money or something, than it makes sense. However, it was a Sunday afternoon. Do many kids like go to the mall or movies and the parents know exactly how much money they have with them? A borrowing or lending money situation that might strike up a conversation, where someone might say, "Oh, I have $1.53 on me, can I borrow $5.00?" type of situation. But assuming that there was no conversation about money on the morning or afternoon that Dermot left home from Dermot, or his parents, or siblings, it just seems unusual that they report that Dermot had a dollar and change on him, but discount Dermot's shoes, jacket, and presumed rifle found at the river bank.

This next part I am going to write is hard. Recall that many of us here at WS understand that we are going on Dermot's case without the most important pieces of the puzzle in place, and that is circumstances and feelings about life and family from Dermot himself! Sadly, this may not be possible anymore if Dermot has passed away. But I think that the next best thing would be to find a way for people who knew Dermot who MIGHT (but are of course under no obligation) to come to the thread and talk about this fascinating and sad case from as close to Dermot's perspective as possible.

Now, here is the tough part. Dermot went to school at Saint Bede's Academy in Peru, Illinois and would have graduated in the class of 1973. There is e-mail information regarding alumni from the classes at Saint Bede's website. Now, obviously we have to persevere confidentiality, and its much too awkward to contact those students about this case through e-mail. However, maybe if the administrators and or moderators might want to work out some way to contract them in confidence, they would at least POSSIBLY be willing to talk about the case from Dermot's prospective by anonymously posting here. The goals of this:

1.) To find out from a peer, friend, or even family perspective whom Dermot regularly confided in concerning his love of music, books, the hippie movement, writings, that might bring closure to this case.

2.) To show those who remember him, that Dermot is valued and loved all these years, by having this website to share thoughts and feelings! It would be cool to do this, for Dermot!

If our information sought from his friends and classmates came from an authority of a website such as Websleuths, an administrator or the mods seeking insight about what Dermot's classmates remember about him, explaining what our site does, and our devotion to solving missing persons' cases, we MIGHT get something from people who knew Dermot, knew the family, and might be willing to come to the forum to discuss his case.

There are some good reasons for this:

1.) It gives us a sense of talking about the case from the people who knew Dermot probably almost as close as the family. Maybe even a lot closer, if their was considerable discord in the family. We might even find out some things that Dermot said to peers about his plans leading up to that day.

2.) Don't we all want to know the "favorite personal possessions" that Dermot left behind?! Maybe one of those classmates, I saw maybe five contacts remembers Dermot very vividly, and would be thrilled to know that there are people that care about him! They can share stories with us, and those working to help those may wish to have a place to talk about Dermot in a "celebration of life."

3.) Even for those who would choose to read Dan's article and the incredible amount of thoughts, feelings and emotions in Dermot's case. It's touched many of us, and maybe there are friends of Dermot out there who would like to talk about the case. Help us solve the case, help bring some closure.

4.) I really can't imagine anyone who would dislike Dermot as a person. (Well, maybe his Dad over time as their belief systems grew farther and farther apart.) But I think it would be cool if those who knew Dermot would at least know that after all these years, we care about Dermot and hope that he found peace and love.

Now for some negative reasons as to why contacting these people may not work:

1.) It could open up old wounds of a very painful situation. It's sort of like many of us believe his Mother always accepted the belief that Dermot ran away to join the hippie movement, and people may not want to get involved or talk about the case. That is TOTALLY UNDERSTANDABLE!

2.) We can't post any e-mail or personal information to contact these people privately, because it's a WS Policy Violation. Have to respect privacy and give people their freedom and choice. We have to think about this from Dermot's perspective, He's the most important person of this thread! I believe he is heroic for all that he went through, no matter where he is now. We have to respect the privacy of Dermot's classmates, just as Dermot would want his own values of privacy respected.

The Middle ground:

At least if someone who knows/knew Dermot would be willing to post about his case, they would still have a screen-name and could not be identified by their real name. The mods and admin might say no we can't even attempt to contact those people from the class of 1973 because it is we are "Prying" for information. That's why I know we regular uses can't do it. But if the web site owners and administrators choose to contact those from his class who have made their information public and would be willing to speak, I think it would help bring closure to this case.

Just thoughts. I hope I did not speak out of turn here! Thanks for allowing me to be a part of the community and for working to help bring closure to Dermot's case.

Regards,

Satch
 
Greetings Everyone,

Hope you are well. Brainstorming again on Dermot's case and I have some interesting thoughts!

Remember when we read the originally reports from Charley Project? I think that was it. There was a little thing of interest that said on the day that Dermot left home he was carrying only "A dollar and some change." And I'm thinking, how would the Kelly's know how much money Dermot had in his pocket at that time? Than I got to thinking about Dermot living in that house with four other siblings. That's them plus his parents. A house with six people in it can feel terribly cramped to a teenager seeking independence, fulfillment, and freedom.

I wonder his parents or other family members often invaded his privacy? Something that Dermot probably would have loved...........NOT! But how could they know how much money he had on him at the time? Especially a small amount of change? If it was a school day or something when he disappeared and they gave him lunch money or something, than it makes sense. However, it was a Sunday afternoon. Do many kids like go to the mall or movies and the parents know exactly how much money they have with them? A borrowing or lending money situation that might strike up a conversation, where someone might say, "Oh, I have $1.53 on me, can I borrow $5.00?" type of situation. But assuming that there was no conversation about money on the morning or afternoon that Dermot left home from Dermot, or his parents, or siblings, it just seems unusual that they report that Dermot had a dollar and change on him, but discount Dermot's shoes, jacket, and presumed rifle found at the river bank.

This next part I am going to write is hard. Recall that many of us here at WS understand that we are going on Dermot's case without the most important pieces of the puzzle in place, and that is circumstances and feelings about life and family from Dermot himself! Sadly, this may not be possible anymore if Dermot has passed away. But I think that the next best thing would be to find a way for people who knew Dermot who MIGHT (but are of course under no obligation) to come to the thread and talk about this fascinating and sad case from as close to Dermot's perspective as possible.

Now, here is the tough part. Dermot went to school at Saint Bede's Academy in Peru, Illinois and would have graduated in the class of 1973. There is e-mail information regarding alumni from the classes at Saint Bede's website. Now, obviously we have to persevere confidentiality, and its much too awkward to contact those students about this case through e-mail. However, maybe if the administrators and or moderators might want to work out some way to contract them in confidence, they would at least POSSIBLY be willing to talk about the case from Dermot's prospective by anonymously posting here. The goals of this:

1.) To find out from a peer, friend, or even family perspective whom Dermot regularly confided in concerning his love of music, books, the hippie movement, writings, that might bring closure to this case.

2.) To show those who remember him, that Dermot is valued and loved all these years, by having this website to share thoughts and feelings! It would be cool to do this, for Dermot!

If our information sought from his friends and classmates came from an authority of a website such as Websleuths, an administrator or the mods seeking insight about what Dermot's classmates remember about him, explaining what our site does, and our devotion to solving missing persons' cases, we MIGHT get something from people who knew Dermot, knew the family, and might be willing to come to the forum to discuss his case.

There are some good reasons for this:

1.) It gives us a sense of talking about the case from the people who knew Dermot probably almost as close as the family. Maybe even a lot closer, if their was considerable discord in the family. We might even find out some things that Dermot said to peers about his plans leading up to that day.

2.) Don't we all want to know the "favorite personal possessions" that Dermot left behind?! Maybe one of those classmates, I saw maybe five contacts remembers Dermot very vividly, and would be thrilled to know that there are people that care about him! They can share stories with us, and those working to help those may wish to have a place to talk about Dermot in a "celebration of life."

3.) Even for those who would choose to read Dan's article and the incredible amount of thoughts, feelings and emotions in Dermot's case. It's touched many of us, and maybe there are friends of Dermot out there who would like to talk about the case. Help us solve the case, help bring some closure.

4.) I really can't imagine anyone who would dislike Dermot as a person. (Well, maybe his Dad over time as their belief systems grew farther and farther apart.) But I think it would be cool if those who knew Dermot would at least know that after all these years, we care about Dermot and hope that he found peace and love.

Now for some negative reasons as to why contacting these people may not work:

1.) It could open up old wounds of a very painful situation. It's sort of like many of us believe his Mother always accepted the belief that Dermot ran away to join the hippie movement, and people may not want to get involved or talk about the case. That is TOTALLY UNDERSTANDABLE!

2.) We can't post any e-mail or personal information to contact these people privately, because it's a WS Policy Violation. Have to respect privacy and give people their freedom and choice. We have to think about this from Dermot's perspective, He's the most important person of this thread! I believe he is heroic for all that he went through, no matter where he is now. We have to respect the privacy of Dermot's classmates, just as Dermot would want his own values of privacy respected.

The Middle ground:

At least if someone who knows/knew Dermot would be willing to post about his case, they would still have a screen-name and could not be identified by their real name. The mods and admin might say no we can't even attempt to contact those people from the class of 1973 because it is we are "Prying" for information. That's why I know we regular uses can't do it. But if the web site owners and administrators choose to contact those from his class who have made their information public and would be willing to speak, I think it would help bring closure to this case.

Just thoughts. I hope I did not speak out of turn here! Thanks for allowing me to be a part of the community and for working to help bring closure to Dermot's case.

Regards,

Satch

Actually to expand on schoolmates who might know or remember Dermot, as he was a Junior in 1972, it is possible that classmates who may have gone to Saint Bede in 1970-1973 might know or remember him and his case. Probably with the years 1971-1973 being the most significant for those who might want to discuss the case.

Any friends, family members, relatives of the family, people that Dermot may have confided in with whom they might share information in the hope of finding some closure. A coming together to reflect and remember Dermot could bring great closure to this case!

Satch
 
Bumping up for Dermot. Will always keep the hope of updates alive in his case. I think Dermot would feel sad about all the pain and problems in the world today. His search for peace and love inspires me!

Satch
 
A small update for everyone,

As Dermot went to Saint Bede Academy and was a junior in the Fall of 1971, I was able to see a SAMPLE yearbook from the Class of 1972. (a sample that was available from e-yearbook.com) The purpose of the search was to find out any clubs or school activities, which Dermot might have belonged. Yearbooks, a lot of times, have quotes or reflections on activities from students. I am looking for any information,reflective quotes, writings, readings, personal possessions that Dermot loved as a special honor and tribute to him for his courage, determination, and quest for peace in life-fulfillment.

Unfortunately, the pages are hard to read and you have to subscribe to the site, in order to view the yearbooks clearly. The publication date was May 1, 1972. It would have had classmates from the Fall of 1971 to the Spring of 1972. I went to the Junior class of pictures and did not see Dermot's picture or name. Dermot himself as a senior would have graduated in June of 1973.

It is possible that the yearbook staff removed his name and any pictures out of respect to the family. However, some families are very moved by tributes in yearbooks in remembering classmates. Keep in mind this was a very hard to read sample copy, so it is possible I might have missed something. The printed pages are really small in the sample and you have to look at the lettering reprinted in your browser that tells what is on each page.

e-yearbook.com was the site that had the sample yearbook from Saint Bede Academy. Class of 1972. From what I remember, you just type in Saint Bede Academy and do a search and the sample 1972 yearbook comes up You have to pay to become a member to fully view the yearbooks at e-yearbook.com. I know people who have been scammed by other sites. However, My Web of Trust, which rates the reputation of sites gives e-yearbook.com a good rating.

I was hoping to find more, but at least I was fortunate enough to see a sample of a 40 year old yearbook. Thanks everyone for your caring and support of Dermot and his case.

Satch
 
The resemblance is striking!

Thanks!

I had actually seen that picture before. A few others at WS did as well From what I remember, what threw us off was the spine condition, and his height. (Too short.) Dermot is at least 6'0. However, it does look like Dermot. Actually, growing up in and around the 60's-70's there were a quite a few people that kind of looked like Dermot. I mean, his looks IMO don't "stand out" where you could have spotted him on the street back in 1972 and say, "That's him." There are (or where) a lot of very tall, lanky, teens with Strawberry/Blonde hair pushed off and long on one side of the face like what you see in Dermot's picture.

I am going to look at this UID more closely though! Thanks again.

Satch
 
Yes the height isn't exact, but errors can always be made in the data or data entry. Hair can also be dyed if a person is trying to "start over" and not be found. Another thing to consider is that in the 1970s & 80s many young people were coming to Houston for work etc (esp from up north), lots of growth. In comparing the 2 pictures, there is a striking similarity in the face structure, shape, eyes, nose, brows, lips. Just located a record for John Houston Doe 1973 on the Harris County Medical Examiners Unidentified Person list. States that this person was a victim of the Houston Mass Murders; assuming Dean Corll; also lists a height range to 5'7"; so could be some room for error on the height feature.

Attached is a link to an article, at the bottom it says that this John Doe is that last unidentified victim.

http://www.chron.com/news/houston-t...ades-another-serial-killer-victim-2336666.php
 
Thanks everyone,

Sadly I still lean towards a drowning or suicide in Dermot's case with hypothermia possibly playing a role. However, as no body has ever been found nor has Dermot ever been found we need to keep looking! We need to search for answers. Some people who knew him may be able to give even more insight into the case. What could help as evidence is:

1.) How Dermot's boots and jacket were found on the river bank?

2.) The patterns of the footprints in the snow?

3.) The velocity of the water current on that bitterly cold day. I remember that the average temperature was only about 7 above zero, with Dermot having to walk almost two miles with only a light jacket and T-shirt under him.

4.) I was told the spot where Dermot's clothes were found, the currents are very strong and the water is very cold.

5.) Did the rifle have a casing in the chamber? Could Dermot have shot himself at the river's edge and falling in the water? Could he have shot at something else, slipped and falling in and got swept away in a strong undertow current?

6.) Did the barge that went threw about a week later destroy evidence if Dermot had drowned in the river?

7.) Or did he stage this whole scene and ran away?

There is one thing we all seem to agree about. The strong disciplined Conservative Roman Catholic Family, a father with a hot temper and iron-fist at times. Dermot having no privacy with four other siblings in the home. Everything in home, school, and church, went against who he was and who he wanted to become. If Dermot lived to tell about his experiences, he would want to go as far away from his family's expectations as possible. He would listen and give empathy in speaking and writing, doing whatever he could in his heart and mind to move as far away from his family's beliefs as possible.

Dermot as a survivor would be a great counselor for other people, especially if they were coming from a painful home environment. What he could communicate, if he chose to do so, would speak volumes!

Satch
 
Regarding the 'spine condition' - this is likely spina bifida occulta. A condition where one or more vertebrae in the lower spine does not fuse completely in fetal development. The overwhelming majority of persons who have spina bifida occulta are completely UNAWARE that they have it. It is considered an incidental finding on xray - and were a person never to have said xray, the condition would not be detected in life.
 
From that article, I infer that there is still one UID left,

Is this that same UID where there was that very disturbing pic of a young boy hunched over who looked like Dermot? In the photo I saw, the hunched over boy looked like he was shackled. In fact, that haunting picture looked more like Dermot than the reconstruction UID that we have been discussing IMO. And I was horrified, I was like, "No! don't have this end this way!" I couldn't even look at the picture a second time.

And that's when some other WS people checked out they picture and they thought no it was not Dermot because of the height. They thought the odds of Dermot even being picked up that day were remote and that gave me confidence that the photo was not him.

I'm hoping for closure, but hate the thought of bad closure. Evidence wise, the thought of a drowning or suicide is horrible enough. But the victim of a serial killer? Dermot? That just shatters and frightens me beyond all comprehension. In my view, I can't even begin to imagine such a path of horror, because we don't have any evidence that Dermot was picked up that day.

Satch
 
From that article, I infer that there is still one UID left,

Is this that same UID where there was that very disturbing pic of a young boy hunched over who looked like Dermot? In the photo I saw, the hunched over boy looked like he was shackled. In fact, that haunting picture looked more like Dermot than the reconstruction UID that we have been discussing IMO. And I was horrified, I was like, "No! don't have this end this way!" I couldn't even look at the picture a second time.

And that's when some other WS people checked out they picture and they thought no it was not Dermot because of the height. They thought the odds of Dermot even being picked up that day were remote and that gave me confidence that the photo was not him.

I'm hoping for closure, but hate the thought of bad closure. Evidence wise, the thought of a drowning or suicide is horrible enough. But the victim of a serial killer? Dermot? That just shatters and frightens me beyond all comprehension. In my view, I can't even begin to imagine such a path of horror, because we don't have any evidence that Dermot was picked up that day.

Satch

This is Doe Network's information of the Houston Texas UID found in 1973 discussed above.

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1010umtx.html

Below is a UID of a suspected Dean Corll victim.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Corll_29th.jpg

This is what Wikipedia says about the picture:

"In February 2012, a picture was released to the news media of a likely unknown victim of Dean Corll. The color Polaroid image had been found in the personal possessions of Henley which had been stored by his family since his arrest in 1973. The image depicts an obviously horrified blond-haired teenage youth in handcuffs,[179] strapped to an undepicted device upon Corll's floor - alongside a toolbox known to contain various instruments Corll is known to have used to torture his victims. The individual depicted has been ruled out by the Harris County Medical Examiner as being any of Corll's known victims - including his one remaining known unidentified victim. Henley himself has stated that the picture must have been taken after he had acquired a Polaroid camera in 1972 - although he is adamant that he has no idea who this boy is. Given that Henley became acquainted with Corll in 1972, it is likely this boy would have been killed in 1972 or 1973."

Satch

PS. My belief is that this neither the UID found in Texas nor the suspected Corll UID boy victim are Dermot. However, the believed Corll victim seems to resemble Dermot more than the UID found in Texas IMO.
 
There is a 10" difference between the UID and Dermot. A few inch difference, maybe, but not 10". The Corll case is too 'famous' for that UID to have been a person reported missing and listed in national data bases to remain unidentified this long.

In any event, that's not why I came here.... I just updated the search for Stacy Peterson thread with new MSM and saw this older post which I hadn't seen before, I felt it was relevent for this case as well, since Dermot went missing in the bitter cold.


I'm not sure which thread to post this to, but after debating I feel this is the right one.

I have paste and copied a portion of a search teams maunevers in searching for a body in cold water temperatures. This team is located in another state, but I immediately thought of Stacy while reading it. I asked for permission to post it here and received it.

For me, it helped on how a body "reacts" in a river, lake, etc. I think the area that Stacy is beleived to be in is also considered a "cold water" river.

From the article;
Uhler’s search includes three main functions: attaching a boat to a high-line rope system and dropping a camera into the water around the falls and near the footbridge; sending two teams along the shoreline to search debris piles with probes; and searching the river’s eddies, the outer corners where water becomes slow-moving.
“There is clearly a good reason to believe we could locate a person if they were a victim of the river,” he said. “The river is very predictable.”
When a person falls into a cold-water current like the Otter Creek in February, the process is always the same, Uhler explained. A body will descend through three phases, known as the top, middle and bottom load. If the person is conscious, he will remain in the top load longer as he fights the current. If he is unconscious, or cannot beat the current, he will sink to the middle load and finally the bottom.
“If there’s a lot of debris in the river a person’s clothes can become ensnared in the debris,” Uhler said.
In warmer water, a body would become more buoyant, rise to the surface and begin moving on the current. But in the Otter Creek’s cold water, it’s unlikely a body would travel far from where it entered the river, Uhler explained.
“In a matter of one to two minutes he could have gone from top load to bottom load, especially with the current,” he said. “With the cold water conditions we have now, once a person becomes trapped in a certain area in the river, they would probably stay there for a while.”

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Stacys search Info
 
There is a 10" difference between the UID and Dermot. A few inch difference, maybe, but not 10". The Corll case is too 'famous' for that UID to have been a person reported missing and listed in national data bases to remain unidentified this long.

In any event, that's not why I came here.... I just updated the search for Stacy Peterson thread with new MSM and saw this older post which I hadn't seen before, I felt it was relevent for this case as well, since Dermot went missing in the bitter cold.




Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Stacys search Info

Thanks Cubby for the river information!

Yes, it is certainly relevant to Dermot's case. I always believed that the investigators did not search the river all that thoroughly. When the barge went through at the end of the week that Dermot left home, they likely figured that the barge disrupted too much potential evidence, or they just did not want to do it because of the cold.

If Dermot had gone missing in the present day, that river would have been searched very intensely! I wonder what was the feeling of LE and the diving team looking at all the possibilities of what happened to him? The different times back than, maybe those affiliated with the case saw the river evidence of Dermot's jacket, boots, and rifle with the scope missing and assumed that he had run away? A staged scene? Or did LE think drowning? suicide? hypothermia?

One week was not enough time to call off the search for Dermot. I think it is possible that LE just treated Dermot like, "any kid." They didn't see the special qualities that he had in searching for peace, love, and life fulfillment. However, back in the mid 60's-early 70's, so many teens were running away, joining the hippie movement, that maybe Dermot was just "lumped together" like everyone else. IMO it was the way times were back than.

I don't think Dermot was given the love, kindness, and respect he deserved. <modsnip>. This is such a painfully sad case. I am so glad that we are here to talk about it and share our ideas!

Satch
 
I don't think the scene was staged. The detective I spoke with told me there were bare? foot prints in the snow leading to the river and none returning back from the river. That doesn't leave much room for possibilities...

ETA: Respectfully, I don't think LE just lumped Dermot into a category. This is an extremely rural area. As of 2010, per wiki, Oglesby had a population of less than 4,000. It's possible it wasn't so much the barge traffic that limited the search, but rather the safety of those who would be doing a search in January with the weather.
 
I don't think the scene was staged. The detective I spoke with told me there were bare? foot prints in the snow leading to the river and none returning back from the river. That doesn't leave much room for possibilities...

ETA: Respectfully, I don't think LE just lumped Dermot into a category. This is an extremely rural area. As of 2010, per wiki, Oglesby had a population of less than 4,000. It's possible it wasn't so much the barge traffic that limited the search, but rather the safety of those who would be doing a search in January with the weather.

Thanks Cubby, Good to see you back! It has been awhile! FYI I had asked Dan (the reporter who did the story about Dermot) and he and I both seem to agree that Oglesby was not really the type of community where Dermot could expand on his values and ideals. A liberal, empathetic, free-spirited follower like Dermot, we both think he would have trouble assimilating to this Ogelsby's type of environment.

I think so many environmental things hurt Dermot. He may have gotten emotionally upset at many issues that he could not control unless he left home. The more I think about Dermot's case, so many conditions were just not right for the kind of hopes and dreams he sought. This is just some of the things that Dermot may have thought about

1.) Too old parents. Too strict parents, controlling parents
2.) Parents don't understand the life and dreams I want to have
3.) Try to talk, no time. Too busy.
4.) Too much controversy...Too many "Fights of the Week."
5.) No privacy
6.) Church and school just reinforce "their" views.

Dermot Thinking "Why the (bleep) am I putting up with this?"

You know, it's too bad that young kids like Dermot could not have just entered into a rental agreement contract and Dermot could have just moved out, found a place of his own. Take his stereo, records, tapes, books, writings, and any other favorite possessions where he could have his own cool little pad and called the shots, while at the same time, his friends and loved ones would have known where he was. Do you think that could have helped him? I do!

I could see Dermot at one of those little coffee shops, back at that time, writing or reading about philosophy or poetry while eating a bagel or something. Or he could sit by a river, a stream, a mountain side, and talk or write about things. Maybe he was more of a writer than a talker. But I have this image of him having this wit and wisdom that far exceeds his years!

Dermot's case is very close to my heart, because I was always very interested in writing and philosophy, impressionistic, think outside the box things. I was NOT a good student like Dermot, but I was once friends with someone in high school who was a lot like him. My friend was very helpful, empathetic, and extremely low-key, very introverted and and on the honor roll. Dermot reminds me of this person.

Satch
 

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